2, I love your MC...this is what I was hoping she would eventually hit on.
And True, I never ever thought you are not trying nor are you a poor wife. You have the biggest heart I know of. I understand your frustrations, all of our frustrations. And you know we all go through hills and valleys in long term relationships. That butterfly feeling also comes and goes. I am sure both you and 2 will have that once again.

I agree with you 2, I am not accepting the marriage we had before the 1st nor the 2nd A for that matter. I want more and I deserve more. That is what I am asking for and so far my H is delivering. Praise them that they have come this far. Praise ourselves for allowing them to.

Have a great Turkey day True (ravioli day here in our Italian household)...2 I will chat with you if you are still here for the week,
holiday

I love my MC too. I think she is brilliant and could not have done it without her. My H and I are about to have the talk about my meeting with her today. We'll see how he takes it.
2

The talk with my H last night went very well. He was very understanding and not defensive at all. He thanked me for giving him "concrete examples I can work with". It felt great to have been heard and understood.

Got me a little out of my funk. Hoping for a good Thanksgiving. Today is the 1 year anniversary of when he came home...right before Thanksgiving. It was at 1:45am and was very dramatic as he cried for almost an hour with me trying to comfort him. I knew he was very tormented in his mind and soul that night. I took such pity on him. I held him and kept asking him to tell me the truth. But even in that moment when he was seemingly so repentant and starting to realize what a HUGE mess he'd made, he did not tell me the truth. I remember feeling in my bones because of his sorrow that it was bad. I prepared to hear the worst. I looked him right in the eye after he had calmed down enough for him to see me and I said "Did you sleep with OW?" and he shook his head no, looked up at me and said "NO". I totally believed him. What else could I do at that point?

He was wonderful all Thanksgiving weekend while we entertained my sister and her family. Things felt normal. Then Sunday after Thanksgiving he left his cell phone in our room and I went up to get something and saw her text message come across as she was sending it. She asked him if he was home yet...knowing that he had moved out. I asked him that night if he has heard from her over the weekend. He denied it. I didn't let him know I knew of her text message because I wanted more evidence. I gathered it all the next day with text messages from the 2 weeks he'd been gone. Phone calls stopped at that time because they knew I could trace it. I busted him that night. He continued to deny it. He said her message (which clearly was her sorrow over their "break-up") were about her being upset that he "cooled off" the relationship because she wanted more. Didn't buy any of that baloney by then. I called her the next morning. Told her I knew everything. She bought it and sung like a bird. It is a week away tomorrow.

Boy am I glad I'll be getting massaged and facial-ed at that time next week!

Have a happy turkey day if we don't talk.
2

Hi guys.

I am still up at my mom's house, but got a moment to "sneak" on the computer. It is a painful reminder how my H snuck on the computer last year. Actually, he was given plenty of opportunity as I spent a lot of the holiday with my family while he was with his(b/c my grandmother went into the hospital and I went to see her). The phone bill from that time made me sick when I saw it. He talked to me five minutes on the night that she went in and I was so upset, and he talked to the OW for over an hour. It was one of the signs that made me realize how much he cared for the OW. He called her just b/c she was sad without him, but he didn't even want to comfort me about my grandma. I also hate that on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving last year, I went over to my brother's house for a pre-Thanksgiving lunch(b/c I would be spending T-day with the in-laws) and my H got mad that I was choosing my family over his. THEN, he yelled at me b/c it was snowing and he was "worried" that I would get into an accident coming back. Now I look at that and say, yeah right you were worried about me. You just wanted me home to take care of the kids so that you could talk to your ****** on the computer. He didn't give a **mn about me last year...I hate that. I remember feeling so distant from him, and being so mad at him for acting like a jerk.

If you can't tell, it has been a tough holiday. I am not going to write anymore about it right now. Let's just say that when I am at his family's house, I think of all the lies that were told to me there. When I am at my family's house, with extended family there, I feel like a complete fool who had a husband she couldn't keep.

I hope you had a good holiday and did not eat too much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

TTYL!

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi True,

I am sad that you are having such a difficult Thanksgiving. As I detailed earlier, this is a terribly painful reminder to me as well of how "confused" he was with things that he moved out "to clear his head". I feel your pain. I was overcome with mixed feelings at church on Wed. night and after dinner on Thursday. I had to really think hard about what I was thankful to God for and I really am thankful that I have my family. Many marriages would not have survived this. Many WS would have taken off with the other person. I was thankful that I had my family even through all the pain we've gone through this last year. I am thankful. But yes, that horrible feeling of "why did he have to ruin a perfectly good marriage to begin with" did creap up often over the day.

But overall our thanksgiving was lovely. I really needed it to be as you know how down I was plus the added reminder of what happened last year this time. I told you guys that I had a talk with my H about how unhappy I was that things have gone back to normal and ever since then, he has been SOOOOOO much more attentive, loving and sweet. I really needed him to. Only yesterday did I finally "feel" his love and gave in to all his affection and was affectionate back. We've had a great time decorating the house, playing with the kids and spending some great alone time when the kids have gone to bed. We are planning another night by the fire, sipping cider, watching a movie in about 10 minutes when my oldest goes down. Looking forward to it.

Wed. is my 1 year d-day anniversary. It has been the HARDEST year of my life...without question. But when I had to reflect on what I was thankful for, I really did feel thankful for my H, my family that is still together, his complete change from last year, my mind still being in tack and my God for giving me the strength to take each day, day by day.

On another note, did you guys see the Oprah where she had on Betty Broderick's youngest son? You know who she is right? Anyway, he said that after all these years, 14 years since she killed his father and new wife, he said she is still angry. He said it still consumes her and she festers in her anger everyday that she sits in prison. It made me so sad. I understand her pain of how her H of 16 years left her for a MUCH younger woman. I know her pain! But it made me so sad to see that 5 years after he remarried his OW, she was still so angry that she killed them both while they slept. I thought how sad to let something (even that painful and hurtful and hard) destroy you FOREVER! And not only is she sitting in jail, but her children suffered tremendously being orphaned as I learned on Oprah. So, it made me realize how thankful I am that I didn't end up as miserable, crazy and destructive as she did. She took a bad situation and made it worse! I am thankful that God gave me the strength and the presence of mind to be in recovery a year later, with my family. Even though the days are tough, watching that made me realize how thankful I am for what DIDN'T happen.

I hope you guys got a chance to be thankful as well for all God has done for you...including your friends on MB!

2

Hey, how'd everyone make out during the holiday? Lots of food? Football? Family time? Emotional instability?

It seems more than usual I am locked into thinking about "the past" and it really throws me for a loop. W is trying to be patient but I know I must be a 'black cloud' to be around when those times come. Hard to swallow that she did what she did...and I am expected (my perception) to just move on in this "new & improved" marriage.

Any suggestions or tips (other than 2 asking about MC!)?

BTW 2, it's not too late if you want to gracefully back out of our USC-ucla bet.

We are so on with our bet this weekend Rocked. SC is going DOWN and we are the ones to do it! We still need a bet though. What are we waggering here?

I am sorry that you are a "black cloud". I won't ask why you aren't going to MC, I will only continue to suggest it especially since you are in the place you are in.

I so feel what you are saying except why do you feel you are supposed to go on with a "new & improved" marriage? I sure haven't felt that way. I've felt I need time to grieve, re-evaluate my life, re-evaluate my love for my H and go day by day. I think it is unrealistic to just go on with a new and improved marriage until you have 1) grieved and been angry and depressed and all the stuff that happens when a person experiences a trauma in life 2) figured out why the trauma happened in the first place.

I've grieved (and continue to do so) and I realized that my H's A was not about me or our marriage, but his insecurity and inability to effectively communicate and not having dealt with "lack of love" issues from his childhood. Now I've been able to take all of this grief, understanding his issues, understanding the A wasn't about me and figure out how to go forward. You don't know where you are going if you don't know where you've been! You know that quote. And in building a new marriage I think that is critical.

So my advice, (if you won't do MC) is to TALK, TALK, TALK! If you aren't happy or feel like you don't know how to go forward with a "new & improved" marriage, then you have to tell her. I mentioned that I was feeling unhappy with our marriage having gone back to the way it was before. I was worried about telling my H this fearing he'd become frustrated. But as I mentioned in an earlier e-mail he took it very well and has been very accommodating. So my suggestion is to be honest with your W.

Yesterday our pastor preached a sermon on LOVE! He talked about the verse that says to "speak the truth in love" and how hard it is for people to hear the truth, SO it has to be done in love. So keep that in mind, and have a heart to heart with her about what you need. You may find (like I recently have) that what you once needed in the marriage has now changed. And there is nothing wrong with that!

Be honest (with her and YOURSELF), be loving, and be hopeful. That is my best advise. Good luck.

I'm working today and don't have time to chat long, but an issue arose with my H that has me frustrated and I want to share. So I will get back to you later!

Have a great day!
2

Thanks 2, I'll consider that advice. If I was honest with her I'd tell her I feel like the "holy bond" we had is now broken. (Even the Bible backs that up). I'd also tell her I don't often feel I "like" her. A part of me has died. I used to be the most fun-loving, creative, spontaneous person who enjoyed being with her. Now I don't feel that "best-friend" thing between us or that desire to be around her like before. I feel locked into my situation due to the kids, my job, our extended families (who don't know about her A), and what the impact would be of a divorce. Part of me wants the old feelings back and part of me wants new feelings with new people.

Now...if I told her all of that stuff, (and more), I feel I would wound her and only add to the complexity of our M. Possibly even be the beginning of the end. And not knowing for sure if I want it to end I keep most of this bottled up and inside.

OK my full of counsel female counterparts...gimme your best shot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

And 2, if USC wins you treat me to dinner the next time I'm in SoCal. If powder blue wins I do the same for you in my area. Deal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We are on for Sat. Rocked! Can I call you and rub it in your face when we win?

You know Rocked, first I want to say that I am so glad that you are opening up to us. You are saying EXACTLY what I told my H just last week. I don't "love" him anymore like I used to, a part of me and therefore our marriage has died, I feel "stuck" in this for the kids and other obligations. I knew he could "feel or sense" that from me anyway. So it was time to tell him. Do you think your wife "feels" the same negative vibe from you that my H felt from me?

I agree with you that your "holy bond" has been broken. Of course you feel like a part of you died and find it hard to even be around her. When I get like this, I can sometime go DAYS without looking my H in the eye. But you know that the bible says HE is the great redeemer! I know you believe that.

I've come to the realization that "old feelings" are not going to return. Everything has changed. But "new feelings" can return and yes, sometimes I want them with new people too, but I believe I can get them with the old husband too. I do believe that or I wouldn't be here...really. So you do have the option Rocked of "new feelings" with your wife. God can redeem your marriage. It isn't going to be easy and it is going to take a lot of work, but the first step is being honest. Just remember to "speak the truth in love." I know you don't want to hurt her, but she needs to know. Since I told my H last week, he has been really accommodating and helpful in understanding that I need "new" marriage, feelings, life. He is trying to step out of the "norm" of our lives and create something new too. Had I not told him that I need "newness" because of the feeling of a "dead" marriage, he would not be able to do his part.

I know it has only been a week since we talked, but it has been a good week and I needed it with D-day being Wed. So I can only say that right now, a week into it, I'm glad I told him the truth (lovingly) so that we can be where we are right now.


Please think hard, pray and be honest with her. I believe it is absolutely necessary in order to improve things. Think about it Rocked, don't you wish however painful it may have been, that your W would have been honest with you about her dissatification in the marriage, or feelings for OM so that you guys could have at least had a shot at preventing the A? You have to do the same thing you would have wanted her to do. You do not (deep in your heart) want to end up in an A either. I didn't and that was why I had to be brutally honest.

I will pray for you.
2

Thanks 2. Pray for me as I consider speaking that truth in love.

Hey, wait a darn minute! If you lose the football bet, you actually WIN!! Cuz it means you get to hang with me over dinner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> HA. (I know True and Holiday wish they coulda got in on this wager. HA)

Later.

Ok Rocked, my turn.

So as I've been saying my H has been really great since we had our talk last week. As you also know he left his job a month ago to persue his "dream" job despite the fact that it was a big risk to the family with the company not even having financing (which is due any day). Also, I may have mentioned to you guys a long while back that a friend of mine and I were thinking of buying a retail business. That opportunity has come and gone and come again, this time more definatively as she plans to go out of business if she doesn't sell the store.

So since this has re-emerged about 2 month ago (right when he was leaving his job), he has said he would be supportive and do what he needs to so I can do this. Well, after hearing him say several times "I'll be supportive" I finally asked him "Do you think I should do this? Do you want me to do this?" I was surprised when he said "No."

So that threw me for a loop. Why are you acting supportive if you don't really want me to do this? Has he not learned anything in the year of MC about how to communicate effectively? Why did it take me asking to get the truth out of him? Very baffled.

So as I pressed him for why he didn't want me to do this his answer was "The timing is bad" (because he's started a new job) and he went on to say things like "I'd prefer you be home so it will be easier on me in my new job" and "It will be difficult for me if I have to do more with the house and kids at this time." So I took all that very selfishly. He doesn't want me to do this so he can have all the time and energy he needs to persue his dream and his job. Didn't I do that once before and it got me a swift kick in the [censored]?!

So I told him flat out that I'm not willing to put my dreams and my plans on hold for him anymore after what happened. I don't feel it is fair that I sit at home again while he is off living his dream. I was content to do that before...but not anymore. Like I've said, this marriage has to be made new again. And me being my own person (which may include pursuing my own dreams) is part of this new marriage. I've said, things can't go back to the way they were before. And me putting this aside for him is the way things were before.

Now, I don't even know if this dumb deal is going to happen. We meet with the owner tomorrow. I am open to whatever happens. This is truly in God's plans and hands. But that doesn't change the fact that he didn't tell me he he didn't want me to do it and then gave me selfish reasons for it!

So as I pointed that all out to him he said "what difference does it make if I want you to do it or not...you're going to do it anyway, so I might as well be supportive." Well, that upset me too. I don't want him to have that kind of attitude. I want him to think that I have heard him and that we have come to a mutal agreement. His selfish motives are not a mutal agreement. So I explained that I don't want to do anything he is opposed to, but he has to have good reason. He just kind of said "your going to do this anyway, so what difference does it make?" So I tried to explain that I would have liked to have been consulted a lot more on all the poor decisions he was making so I could have pointed them out and potentially prevented so much devestation from happening. I said we should have come to mutal agreements on a lot more things and maybe I would not have sat at home while you were with your girlfriend. I sat back and was "supportive" even when I thought it was wrong and ridiculous.

So we go to MC tomorrow and I'm sure this will be the main topic. What are your thoughts? Doesn't this seem wrong for him to not have said anything till I brought it up?

2

2, you asked him for his opinion. You have to be open to hearing whatever his opinion is even if it doesn't jive with yours. Yes, in the end come to "mutual agreements", but the process has to involve the freedom for him to share with you even if he disagrees.

From an outsiders viewpoint...2 new business start-ups at the same time does sound a bit risky. But, I don't know all the details and business plans.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Thanks Rocked, but that really isn't my point. I'm not upset that he had an opinion, I'm upset that he didn't share it with me. He kept going on about being "supportive" when in fact he doesn't want me to do this. That is the issue.

I am also bothered that he thinks I'll do whatever I want regardless of his opinion. I think that is a lousey attitude to have.

I agree 2 big moves like this for us is risky. If he would have sat me down and explained "lovingly" why he didn't want me to do this, I'd listen. But to throw out when asked " I don't want you to do this because I want you home so I can do what I want" (well that is what I heard) was not the way to go about this. Wouldn't you agree?

Have you given anymore thought to talking to your wife from your heart? Share.

2

Hi guys...

Really quick note. My internet is messed up, and I am on borrowed time here. Just wanted to say hi.

Rocked, I feel your pain. I have been there myself. I do not want to share my true feelings sometimes, b/c unlike my H, I think of his feelings in everything I do. I do not want to open up this can of worms that has been slowly closing for the past year.

2,

I am glad you had a good Thanksgiving. I also agree that when you ask for an opinion, be prepared for one that you just might not like. I am awful about that myself. I ask my H things and then get mad when he tells me the truth.

I told my H yesterday that I feel like our marriage is fading away from us. That it will soon be over. Pretty sad thing to say, huh? He has been much more affectionate since I said that, though. I also told him that for the past year he has treated me as his #1 priority but I do not feel like I am that anymore and I miss it. I guess I should not expect for him to be like that forever, but I feel a huge rift between us. I wonder often if it is just me that is making the rift bigger by cutting off feelings for him. I don't know.

Well, my time on the computer is over, so I need to go. Talk to you when I can.

True

Welcome back, True. Yep...that's how I feel too may times. Marriage slipping away. Even when she reaches out to me I don't always feel like it is genuine or what I want anymore. The slipping is probably more my doing than hers at this point. Let us know when you get your Internet time back.

2, does your H hold back his opinions b/c of the very responses you give him back? If he is an "avoider" of conflict I can see that happening.

Go USC!

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately, I don't think I was able to get my point across in writing. It wasn't his opinion that bothered me, it was his lack of telling me in the first place and his reason behind his opinion. At MC today I was able to better explain myself and my MC understood my point and helped me to make that clear to the H. We resolved this as best we could in an hour session.

Anyway, made the presentation to the store owner tonight. Will know if she is on board on Thursday and we will make a formal offer on Sunday. As you can see, despite my H "opinion" I'm going forward.

A week ago, I too felt my marriage slipping away. Is it one year- itis? I feel better about it today though despite d-day being tomorrow. I'm glad I'll have this business stuff to keep my mind off of all this too much (I hope). I may be chatty tomorrow!

I have slipped a little. I called her cell phone Monday (call blocking) to see if it was the same number. It is. Got her voice mail. Didn't leave a message...ha! Also did a Google search to see if I could find her home number and address. No luck. Suddenly felt the urge to do all this. Don't know why except the 1 year being tomorrow. My H knows it is...I wonder if she does. I wonder if for her in some way having me call her and "reveal" her was as traumatic to her as it was to me and my H. I know they talked for a long time that day. I also know that 2 weeks later (after he returned from his leave of absence) that no contact began. She furiously e-mailed him several days later saying it was ridiculous that he wouldn't talk to her. That might be her "d-day"...or the day 3 weeks before my d-day when he "officially ended it"...or more than likely, maybe none of the days. I wouldn't know what it is like to have a married man you're having an affair with, dumb you for his wife. Gee, doesn't that sound strange?! Anyway, maybe she never even thought about it 2 weeks later...I don't know and never intend to find out!

Anyway, lots going on here. You guys say something to your spouse if you feel that way about your marriage. Again, don't you wish they would have said something to you before they went so far as to have an A? Speak the truth in love!
Good night!
2

Haven't the Trojans won 33 games in a row?

Yeah, something like that...so? What they'll keep winning forever? I don't think so! Someone is going to take them down and it is us! I'll be laughing in your face!

As I made breakfast and put the finishing touches on my Christmas decorations, suddenly I realized by that time last year I had found out and was in shock. As I walked into the living room to put something by the Christmas tree, I saw where I had fallen on my knees and prayed and prayed that somehow God could take it away. I really became so sad that I had to fight back the tears that welled up in my eyes. My H was saying good-bye to the kids and I didn't want him to see me cry. So I decided I'd cry after he left. But once he left, the feeling passed. Thank God.

Since everything after around 9am when he called me to tell me he had resigned from his job, is a blur, I should be OK the rest of the day. I don't even remember what happened when he came home that day....it really is such a blur.

Anyway, don't know where holiday ran off to and True is unfortunately out of commission. Rocked have you thought anymore about talking to your wife about your feelings?

2

Yeah. Soon. I'm just in this numb-nothin-matters zone. Totally selfish I know, but it's where I am.

Sorry 2 about your memories and the feelings that come back. DDay is definitely tough. Hang in there.

Besides, memories of how UCLA got plastered and you had to pay up to ole' Rocked will soon fill your cranium. At least I warned ya. And don't expect any mercy!!!

So the store owner just called and vetoed our deal. At least it is done! God's will and I'm OK with that.

Sorry that you are feeling so numb. I sooooo know that feeling. Very sad indeed! He told me out of the blue the other day "thanks for trying even though I know you don't often feel like it." I said trying what?...though I had a feeling I knew what he meant. And he said "This...you and me." and I said "Your welcome." That was it. It was nice for him to acknowledge it to me though.

But I was thinking shortly after that why would you do something that would take me 2-4 years to get over? Everything was fine! Why did you choose to ruin our marriage and destroy me in the process? Why? And it made me wonder "why do I try?" But I am.

Now that I am officially 1 year out, I believe it can be another 3 years before I don't feel that pain so strongly I want to cry. Isn't that sad? 4 years of my life spent in pain and turmoil for a 1 year fling with a floozy?! I swear, I just don't get what any of our spouses were thinking!

2