This is BULL...

What about the OW? What do you know about her and her whereabouts when he is absent? Is she married?

whoa!

If he respected your committment ... he'd either stop his A or he'd divorce you BECAUSE he respected your committment !

think about it

If I respect YOU as a housekeeper coz I think you do an amazing job ... but I continue to track MUD onto the fresh white carpet after repeatedly being told how much it bothers you ... but I keep on doing it ... do I REALLY respect you as a housekeeper?

Hmmmmm I see. So maybe he admires my committment to our marriage, but does not respect it? Or maybe I am in denial. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The OW back in July was not married. I know her name and email address, that's it.

Yes, it is customary for the WS to deny up to and even when, confronted with undeniable proof. WS's lie...if their lips are moving...they are probably lying.

When he (supposedly) ended the A you should have required that and he should have been more than willing to be an open book...with passwords and access to his cellphone details.
In one of our false recoveries the OW in our sitch provided my H with his own secret affair cellphone. They can get better about going more underground.

The excuse about deployment and going without sex, although it could be true about deployment it is not necessarily true about his life right now.

***How often does someone walk away from a marriage because they just want to be single? Maybe there is not one special OW, but a whole lifestyle that they crave? How can you have a wife and 3 kids and be married for 20 years and decide that is not what you want? That you now want to be single. And if this is what you want, then how come the WH still has to have an attachment to the family he so wants to leave?***

I have not read any of the other replies yet, so here goes:

Because what they REALLY want is to have both. They want both the comfort and security of a family *and* all the fun and excitement of dating and they honestly think they are entitled to have both.

Sure, they feed you a bunch of stuff about "oh, poor me, I'm so confused and I just can't decide" -- but don't ever fall for that. The truth is, they HAVE decided. They've decided they want the best of both worlds and will just say they are "confused" in order to string you along.

***A lot of questions, I know. I have posted my story many times and know that I should be in Plan B. I don’t know why I can’t.***

You are having extreme difficulty going to Plan B because you are a Buyer. Buyers are committed for life to a relationship and find it difficult if not impossible to leave.

On the other hand, your WH is a Freeloader. Freeloaders honestly believe that a relationship should take no effort, care or protection at all, and if it does then there was something wrong with the relationship in the first place.

A Freeloader's only committment to a marriage is "Well, I'm still here, aren't I?" There is no committment to care or protection.

Sound familiar?

I have been talking a lot about a book I just read called *Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.* It is available new on this site or you can it used and cheap from Amazon.com (that's what I did) or even for free from your public library.

***Yet, he cannot commit to our marriage. He says he does not know if he wants to be married or not, but that he does not want to walk away from the marriage.***

Like I said . . .

***We have NO SF at all. There is no intimacy what so ever. It is almost like we are roommates.***

Freeloaders see nothing wrong with getting their needs met outside the marriage. Remember, their only committment to the marriage is "I won't leave."

***It is weird, like he doesn’t really want to leave his family, but for now he wants to pretend he is single. Sounds twisted, I know!
**

Not at all. He sees nothing wrong whatsoever with being both married and single. Never forget that that's what he really wants.

***He admits to feeling confused about what he wants.***
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Like I said, that is right out of the script.

***I know it must be time for Plan B. Honestly I don’t know if I can do it. I don’t know if I am strong enough. Just trying to be honest. I have no job and no support system. I also feel like to go into Plan B you have to be ready for your marriage to end. You have to be strong enough to survive if the WH does not come back. I am not ready for that yet. I am not at all saying I think Plan B makes your marriage fail, I am saying that step means you are strong enough to let your marriage end if your WH does not come back.***

I know. You feel this way because you are a Buyer. You don't have to decide right this minute. You will get more advice here about how to go to Plan B when you are truly ready.

***I know that I do not want a D.***

Then don't lift a finger to help your WH get one, if that's what he threatens (and he probably will.)

***I know that Plan A has gone on too long.***

Plan A only enables Freeloaders and usually makes them very, very happy.

***I know I do not want a roommate, I want a husband. I feel sad always. I need a hobby or something to occupy my time. I hate being alone! I feel like a car stuck in a rut with the wheels spinning and going nowhere!***

Freeloaders are extremely good at getting their own needs met, but don't have the slightest interest in seeing that yours are met. That would require putting effort into the relationship and Freeloaders don't believe in that, remember?

I sympathize. I am in a similar situation. You might want to get that book and read it. It was very helpful to me. At least it sure made a lot of sense.
Mulan

Wow Mulan - You are right. I must read that book. I am a buyer always have been, always will be. That makes sense why I can't go into Plan B. My WH is a freeloader. He used to be a buyer. I swear he was so wonderful to be around and always looked after my needs. Where is my Buyer H???

What you just wrote hit me right between the eyes. I will order the book. That one and Love Must Be Tough. I feel like I need to make myself strong enough to do what is necessary.

Still a work in progress.

Thanks!!!

Lost:

I'm sorry to say this BUT...

You present yourself as being so HOPELESS and INEFFECTIVE, giving the message that there is NOTHING you can do...

I can't buy that...

You feel that you have NO PERSONAL POWER?

That life is JUST HAPPENING to you?

How did you discover your H's A this summer?

LET HIM KNOW THAT YOU ARE A POWER TO BE RECKONED WITH, HE WILL BEGIN TO RESPECT YOU, HE WILL BEGIN TO SEE YOU AS BEING VALUABLE AND EVEN IF HE DOESN'T YOU WILL BEGIN TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF...

Rather than order or read a book today (which would be helpful, I grant you), I think it would be great for you TO DO SOMETHING to assert your PERSONAL POWER...

This does not have to be a NEGATIVE ACTION..A new outfit?..A special dinner?...A surprise visit to his office in the city?....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey LITC. Don't make any rash decisions you'll regret. Someone said to me today that you can both commit whole heartedly to your relationship but also let go of him, in other words the fear of what life will be like without him. The most important thing is to get your life back together which is a job and a half when you've been in our situation.
Dig deep and remember what made your heart sing before you lost yourself. Think about when you were young free and dancing with life. What did you do? what made you happy? what worked? When you come up with your truth, feel it, do it and never let it go.
My truth is art. I'm an artist and have not truly commited to it because I put up so many barriers and self-defeating limitations. H is also very against me doing it. My friend said I would never be happy until I followed my heart. She said if H attacks you about it just say 'i'm sorry but I have to do this. I'm sorry you don't like it but I love you and will be here for you.'
I hate being alone to, that's why you've got to find your thing.
My thing starts now. I'm giving myself a time limit of a year (don't know why, that feels right for me) and if H is not engaged emotionally by then at least I will have moved forward in my own life.
Hope you find your bliss.

I think he depends on your committment to the marriage ... (you're a Buyer) ... in order for him to Freeload off of you.

Because of your committment, he can enjoy the love and care of 2 women! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pep:

I agree that the A is continuing...

However, I don't think Lost has acknowledged acceptance of that...

Do we know that her WH never was a BUYER since she sees him as having some "admiration" for her commitment? Just wondering about this...

I have no idea ...?

And WHY NOT? Aren't you "ALL-KNOWING"?

Just kidding...

It's Friday and I'm feeling awfully "silly" today...

Excuse me, LOST....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Admire and respect in this context are really the same word.

Her husband does not admire or respect her committment.

Does he trust and like her committment, absolutely. He knows he can do what he likes and she won't be going anywhere.

WSs have affairs because they can.

Hi Lost,
When you are ready for plan B YOU will know it. Keep it in your back pocket its your secret weapon for survival. It what keeps me going. My ducks are in a row and if I need plan B I know its there...a safety net. Even if you are not sure WH is currently having A (or with who) YOU know he is not committed to your marriage. Get your ducks in a row... it will empower you. It is the future of your children you are fighting for. Emotionally, financially and physically (housing etc... I know he is not physically abusive)

Things I have done to get my ducks in a row; Retained a lawyer, opened my own back account and credit cards to protect my own credit rating, I got a good picture of finances: debts, assests, investments,retirement plans, budget (what is needed monthly to live on), cash stash, insurances, copies of tax returns, copies of bank statements. Increased hours at work. Notified teachers at school. Make sure van is well maintained. Established support system if kids and I need a place to stay, and I have a plan for household maintainence and renovation and people I could call on to help with household things.

These things took me a while to get in line. Take babysteps. Its like a diaster plan hopefully I will never have to use it...but I feel better having it all in place.

You might want to start with taking a class or joining somekind of hobby group so you can build your own support system separate from your WH. Think of it this way...IF diaster strikes...how will you take care of your children?

Wow - A girl goes shopping and look what happens to her thread!!

Ok, let me see what I have gotten out of this. I can't fully accept that my WH is having an A because I have no concrete proof. YES, I do think he is doing something wrong and YES I do think other women are involved, but I don't have proof of any ONE OW. I think it is more the fact that he is enjoying a single life...whatever that means. One OW, many OW?? I don't know.

I DO KNOW that he is not committed to our marriage.

From what I have read my WH was a buyer for many years. I think he has gradually gone from a buyer to a renter to a freeloader. I'm not sure where the respect/admire thing comes into play but I still feel that my WH admires/ respects/likes the committment I have to our marriage and how much work I am willing to put into saving it. He has done everything to push the marriage away, but for now I am not willing to let it go. I think he feels guilty/bad because he is not willing to put forth that effort right now. He does not want a D, but also is not sure if he wants a marriage either.

This is hard for me because he was such a buyer for so long. I can look back now and see the transformation from buyer to renter to now freeloader, but when this first happened it seemed SO out of the blue. I can look back now and see little signs that just grew I guess.

I am confused why he doesn't just walk away. Totally leave and walk away. He is obviously emotionally detached. He is pleasant to be around. He is not mean to me. We even laugh and have fun together. So why does he act this way when he does not want to commit to our marriage? Because he can?? Maybe.

I realize that I am selling myself short. I am a strong woman who is educated and capable. I also know that I am co-dependent. I am afraid of being alone. Raising my kids alone. Not having that companionship with my best friend.
My WH and I get along so well that we are starting a business together next summer. This has been a dream and is now becoming a reality. So I feel sad that if we split up then I will be out of that business. I feel insecure about my future anyway because WH is retiring from the military next summer and our life will take a drastic turn. We get to pick where we want to live for the first time in 20 years.

I do not want my marriage to end. I do not want a D. I will not file for a D. That will have to be his job.

I like your ideas C42. I do need a plan. You have given me some very good suggestions and things I need to act on. I do need my ducks in a row. I do need a plan.

****He knows he can do what he likes and she won't be going anywhere.****

This is a very true statement. This says it all. So now you are going to say...so what are you going to do about that??

Hmmmmmm..........

The goal of the MB PLANS is for you to REALLY have your H again...

You didn't share the nature of the A that you discovered in June.

How do you know that there is not one OW...it does make a difference...because if so, he may fall "in love" with her...

I am not sure if there is just one OW. I have no proof either way. I don't know if he is just enjoying the single life or has one OW. I just don't know?

In June his actions were very withdrawn...VERY. So of course I knew something was wrong. I aked him and he said he just did not know if he wanted to be married or not. Of course denied OW when I asked was there someone else. So I looked at his work blackberry and found emails from this one OW. Nothing sexual stated or very explicit, but short, sweet emails to him from her. I snooped without him knowing for about 3 weeks. Gathered myself together and decided to confront him.

We were going on a family vacation and I drove into the City the Monday before we were leaving on Thursday. Had written out what I wanted to say. Called him on my way and asked him to meet me outside his office building. He was shocked that I was there and scared. I read the letter to him and cried. I told him that I knew about the A and that I wanted our marriage to work. I wanted him to give her up. He said nothing just cried. I left and then I wrote an email to OW. Told her he was married with 3 kids and we want him back. She of course sent the email to him and he was angry at first. Not bad angry, just upset that I would confront her. On Wednesday I sent him an email at work saying, for the vacation and the sake of our marriage let's make a deal. While we are gone for 2 weeks you do not bring your blackberry and I will not relationship talk unitl you are ready to bring it up. He agreed.

So we were gone for 2 weeks. He had no email access and we had a great time. Got home and life since then has been less strained, but still no committment from him. He is still confused. We did talk about OW. I asked if she was important to him and he said no not like you and the kids. I asked him a few weeks after we got back had he had contact with her and he said no.

So, I am not stupid or naive. I do know that she could be back in the picture or maybe there is another OW. I don't know.

When we do realtionship talk he says he feels like he has changed. He says at times he feels like he wants to leave and other times he wants to stay. Fog talk, I know.

So that is a little more insight to my story.

It isn't out of the realm of possibilty that he has a secret plan of his own. It could be that he is biding his time until he retires from the military to implement it.

He could have a plan with an OW. May or may not be the same OW. There may be reasons why he doesn't want you to have a clue as he works out the logistics. It could just be conflict avoidance for as long as possible.

You have no security within your marriage right now. Confused42 had some excellent ideas for preparing to protect yourself and your kids. You don't want to be unprepared for whatever may come your way.

You need to be a vibrant, confident, attractive, alternative. Appearing needy is usually a turn off unless it is in an OW looking for a knight in shining armor to rescue her from whatever. Men like the ego boost and admiration they feel in an A. They have A's because they can, they feel entitled, and justified. If he is being nice but still saying he doesn't want the marriage then it is highly likely he is getting some needs met elsewhere.

I suppose it could be just an attraction to a single life. He could feel like he has given his life to the military and his marriage and family and now it is his turn.

Has he suggested that you get a job?

Can you hire a PI?

At some point you may need to get tough and take a stand for the kind of marriage you want and that you believe that you can both have a better marriage together than before. It can happen. It shouldn't just be his choice.

Have you read the Proper Feeding and Care of Husbands. It's worth a try! It made me feel really uncomfortable reading that book but it made sense somehow.

Talking of respect, if you respect yourself and your husband how could he possibly not respect you?! Just a thought