P47,

I got your email. I will respond this evening.

In His arms.

P47D,

Just a few thoughts for future discussions. You mentioned
You might ask her what she would advise her children if their spouse was having an affair? You might ask her how she would counsel her children if her Grandchildren where teenagers and KNEW something was very wrong and that their world was about get turned up sidedown ( their family was to split up)?

Did she feel it fair that your children find out about the end of the marriage and the reason why at the last minute? Doesn't she think it fair that your children have an opportunity to express their feelings about W's decisions making and why? Doesn't she think it has helped the kids to be able to address these things in their own fashion and have the knowledge that they have some SAY in these events?

She has not wanted to protect the children, she has wanted to protect herself. Protecting the children is what YOU did when you told them of all of this. This information has allowed them to address as best they can what is going on and why...and YES that includes expressing their displeasure with their mothers decision to have an affair.

If you point a few of these things out it is possible that she will realize this has been ALL ABOUT HER. Not you, not the children, nothing but her selfishness.

Have you also explained to your W that if you divorce that it is unlikely that you will be "friends" with her or even friendly. At best she might get civil. There are costs to decisions and the decision to divorce on her part will have a price she had better consider.

I hope you can get to your MC session, she really needs to hear some of this from a third person.

God Bless,

JL

Justlearning:

>You might ask her what she would advise her children if their spouse was having an affair? You might ask her how she would counsel her children if her Grandchildren where teenagers and KNEW something was very wrong and that their world was about get turned up sidedown ( their family was to split up)?

Supposedly, she would point them to me! This question has been raised a number of times concerning her advice for one of her children that turns to her when they want to throw in the towel i the future. Her response is to go and talk to your father (Me) and ask him why he put me in this position in the first place!

>Did she feel it fair that your children find out about the end of the marriage and the reason why at the last minute?

Yes, because in her eyes, we both would have told them together. Of course she doesn't realize that I would never agree to separate or D. That when she will or would try to say that this decision is mutual, I would and will pipe up that it is NOT mutual, and that I am totally against it.

>Doesn't she think it fair that your children have an opportunity to express their feelings about W's decisions making and why?

She doesn't have a problem with that but she believes the playing field was tilted in my favor since I got to them first. In other words, I had home field advantage and I ruined them from the get go. What she doesn't see is that she has had far more opportunities to talk our children and they still don't see it mom's way, and that is what is really bothering her the most.

>Doesn't she think it has helped the kids to be able to address these things in their own fashion and have the knowledge that they have some SAY in these events?

No. She doesn't see anything positive coming out of my telling our children. Our children have also regressed a bit since being told in that they are really not talking about it and she is worried they are just burying their emotions. So she doesn't see any benefit for them knowing at this point not to mention that she knows of several other couples that have gone through similar situations and avoided telling their kids.

>She has not wanted to protect the children, she has wanted to protect herself. Protecting the children is what YOU did when you told them of all of this. This information has allowed them to address as best they can what is going on and why...and YES that includes expressing their displeasure with their mothers decision to have an affair.

For the most part, this is true, and like I said, she did feel all along that they would not like her after this and that she would be seen as the bad person. Now that it has happened, she didn't anticipate or under estimated their reactions.

>If you point a few of these things out it is possible that she will realize this has been ALL ABOUT HER. Not you, not the children, nothing but her selfishness.

No. She is no where near that place. I am still to blame. Oh, she is now at least saying that she is responsible for some stuff, but basically, I am still to blame for her A and I am totally to blame for ruining my children (in her eyes) and their view of Mom for the rest of their lives.

>Have you also explained to your W that if you divorce that it is unlikely that you will be "friends" with her or even friendly. At best she might get civil. There are costs to decisions and the decision to divorce on her part will have a price she had better consider.

Yes, I did relay the friends issue to her and she was shocked that I would not want to see her or be friends with her if we D. I said it had nothing to do with hating her, but that it would simply be to painful and why would I want to relive this pain over and over again? Lucily for me, she would move back home which is almost 1000 miles from me, but there are always the weddings of our kids and I can't imagine going to one of those seeing her with some OM in tow! That would really hurt too!

She is also examining the price that is involved, but she says she is also willing to pay that price. You see, if her kids hate her now, so what? Over time she thinks they will come around and cut her some slack.

>I hope you can get to your MC session, she really needs to hear some of this from a third person.

Yes, we need to get group counseling going, but she has already heard all of this from the MC before. She just can't get off the fact that it is all about her happiness and how can she live the rest of her life so unhappy the way it currently is. Of course, the real answer is, if you think you are unhappy now, you ain't seen nothin yet if you follow through with this bogus, land of Oz dreamworld.

p47d

Wed AM Update!

I'M PISSED!! That's my update!

I walked out last night in a huff!

Over the last week, evenings with WW have gone like this: get home, have a nice family meal, the clear the table. WW then goes and starts making calls (NC with OM for 7 weeks now according to cell phone records) to her mom and friends. This goes on for most of the night. WW is also drinking more and more. Then around 10-10:30 she comes into living room and chats for a while and says she is wiped out. We go to bed. She falls asleep really quicky because of her drinking.

Now, since Friday, went to DD bball game and she does not want to stay for boys game that follows but says I can stay with DD as she will go home and catch up on a few calls and write out some cards. Great, I watch game with DD, get home and she is talking away, and that is how it ends up as we go to bed around 11. No dialogue between us apart from yep and no.

Saturday: Go to church and then put a few christmas decorations. Mid afternoon WW says she is going to run some errands and get some more shopping done. DD has another bball game at 6:30 and we go, but I am left at home all afternoon. WW does not want me to tag along. Go to game and again WW does not want to stay but I do. Get home with DD and WW is half in the bag talking on the phone (surprise). Go to bed and WW follows. She's out like a light. Wants to cuddle though. Can't figure out why though.

Sunday: put up tree in AM then I sit down to watch my favorite NFL team plat at 1:00. She leaves to go shopping again at 2:00. Says she will be home in 2 hours. At 7:00 I call and say what is going on for supper? We had fund raising tickets to a fish fry. She says go get the stuff and she will be home shortly. Go get the food come home and eat by myself. WW shows up after 8:00, eats and then gets back on the phone. I go to bed around 10. Take a sleeping pill and it's lights out.

Monday: Ditto. DD has another game and we both go and then come straight home, but WW goes back on the phone and talks till 10:30. Again, I go to bed and need that sleeping pill.

Tuesday: Now I'm irritated. Go home and am exceptionally jovial. DD and I at dinner are having a great time telling jokes and making some corney impressions. WW just sits there basically emotionless. We clear the table and she then retreats into bedroom to make some calls. I take my usual spot on the couch by myself. Around 8:00 WW comes out and says she is going out to buy and iron at WalMart. Be back in one hour. At 9:00 she comes home but then phone rings and it is a friend that is planning a visit this weekend which is a really big deal for my WW. Talks to her until 10:45 then comes into living room and sees that she has several messages on her cell phone. Of course she answers them since they are from her best friend commonly called by yours truely as the "tick".

They begin to talk and I go to bed at 10:30. She doesn't even say goodnight or anything. About 45 minutes later and I can't sleep cause I'm so upset, I get dressed and proceed out the door. She asks where I am going and I answer what does it matter to you? I'm going out. She says I cant believe you are upset becasue I was talking to a couple of friends! Hah! This is all she does! I am no where! I don't exist!

I exit around 11:30 and stay out till around 2:00. Visit a local Pub and watch some guys playing pool and catch up on ESPN. Go home and she is waiting on the couch for me. I enter and she says where have you been, or hello, I just say, goodnight and go directly to bed. She does not follow and spends night on couch.

Today, I get on horn to MC! I am pissed! He has been sick but WW is not very interested in setting up any more appointments. So, I set one up for tonight. Call WW and say either we or I have an appointment for tonight. If you don't want to join me, oh well, I'll go by myself.

No argument through all this, but I'm on a very short fuse. My WW is being impossible. Then to top it off, with her friend visiting, her whole weekend has been planned around her which doesn't include me in anything.

So, I am not a happy camper and almost asked her to pack up and go home. I'm really not going to live like this.

p47d

She is punishing you for ruining her affair.

She is punishing you for telling the kids.

She is testing you to PROVE your changes are not for real.

You are either in this marriage or not. I know your hurt and I know this is driving you crazy but you must just keep on keeping on. She is either going to wake up and become repentent and reconcile or she is going to wait you out until next spring when daughter finishs high school and leave you. The better you behave, the more you grow and leave the affair behind you the harder her decision becomes BUT it is still her choice which you have no control over.

I wish I could hit her myself with a figurative 2x4 and get her to wake up. You did get a cuddle the other night. Try to watch for little progressions but you can only control you and make her choices as difficult as possible. Isn't her being at home on the phone better than her being in an active on-going secretive affair? If you allow your frustration to get the best of you all the time then you will have plenty of alone time next summer after she leaves. I would never blame you if that happens. I know how difficult this is but she is home and every once in awhile your actual wife does pop out.

Keep battling by being the best husband you can be and we will all see what occurs.

Mr. Wondering

Some specific strategies:

1. Next time you get the desire to "walk out" in frustration, instead of playing into her hands, invite her to step out with you, you know she will say "no" but at least she was invited.

2. When her girlfriend is in town invite yourself along or invite them both out for dinner. Do this in front of wife's girlfriend. It can only help if girlfriend sees your wife as being the bad guy instead of allowing wife to play you up as the boring, spitefull, lump of a husband she intends or is considering leaving next spring.

3. Play all jovial in front of wife (and her girlfriend) and mean it.

P47,

This is a stage in all of this. My wife did similar things. As Mr. W was saying, it is a punishment of you. At the same time, she is trying to find a little happiness in her withdrawal.

So, just be consistent. This will pass. Sure, she may still run. But if she stays, she is still gonna have to go thru this. And so are you.

A WS in withdrawal cannot have a moody BS around. Only room for one emotionally charged person in the house!

Relax as well as you can. Yo uare going to have to endure the abuse a little longer.

In His arms.

Thanks Wonder! And thanks Mortar!

Went down to the YMCA last night before I got home and looked into getting myself back in shape! DD and I have a bet to loose some weight before my big 50th in two months! I used to be in primo shape and having a son that ran distance in HS and college helped keep me going. But I know see it is time to do some things for me! I'm really tired of sitting around and getting fat(er)!

Anyway, talked to the WW about it since she is always saying she wants to tone up, and now this will give us an opportunity to. In the past though when I was a Y member, she never wanted to go and I doubt she will go now, but I will encourage her to come along. DD is delighted and really wants to go along too.

Funny, WW asks where are we going to get the money for that? You know like 50 bucks a month for the sake of our health, dear. Ahh, just cut back on your 500 dollar cell phone bills and we can cut it no problem! Now you know I didn't say that!

Anyway, I'm hoping that WW will not go to counseling with me tonight as I want to vent on the MC about all this! I'm pretty pissed right now and really came close to throwing WW out last night. I know she is playing with my head, but seeing that I am, and never was into playing mind games, it erks me to know end. Plus, in reality, I did nothing wrong, yet I am having to endure all this just to keep the peace! Then again, maybe she will go and we can talk about it with the MC along with why she refuses to wear her wedding rings! Another sore spot with me!

BTW, I'm not moody around the house either. As I said, I have been really jovial these last weeks and I know it is bugging her. It's just that when I am left alone for hours on end, it's kind of hard to get excited when WW enters the house or gets off the phone! "Gee Dear, how was your 3 hour long phone call to xyz?" "Didn't you gals just talk yesterday for 8 hours?" "I just love it when you are able to spend time with your friends!" Ahh, can you fit me into your busy schedule? You say I am? Oh, you mean when we sleep? Yea, right, we are together for 7 hours every night! I'm sorry dear, I forgot all about us being together while we sleep!

And to think that we aren't spending quality time together! Silly me! Hopefully she will forgive me for being so self-centered!

p47d

Sounds good, P47. But I do want to say that this:


...cannot happen anymore! This is what I was talking about when being moody. You cannot do this, no matter how much she deserves it!

In His arms.

Latest Thursday AM

The FAT Lady has been seen entering the building! The end is near!

First joint counseling session last night and things seemingly went well. MC focused on us talking together and most of all listening to what each other was saying. In other words, repeating back what the other thought they had heard. Covered a few issues and worked them out.

O.K. that went well. As for the rest of the night, DISASTER!

We talked very calmly on the way home about several issues, then when we are ready to go to bed, WW says to me that she cannot do "this" any longer. I ask her to define "this" and she says she cannot live like this any longer that things are not working nor will they ever work. She no longer wants to go to counseling! I ask her why she did not mention it tonight and she said that she wanted to talk with me first. No, she did not want to mention it because MC would probe her for explanation and she doesn't want to tell the truth it seems.

Without getting into all the gory details (no yelling or screaming from me, she did lose it once and that was even after we talked about her outbursts in counseling), here is a summary of her discussion with me.

1. She is so lonely and homesick for her family and friends, that she can no longer stand living in our current location.

2. Her family (back home) is more important than me, our children or our marriage. She admits that she wants her family more than me. Or should I say, needs her family more than me.

3. She no longer wants to be married to me. She wants to be single, but in her very own words, "does not want to be single that long."

4. Wants to keep things status quo until my DD graduates this June. But if I really can't stand it, is willing to move out and get an apartment.

5. She wants to start her life over and does not want to spend the rest of her life trying to make the M work. Says it is just to difficult and that there are just to many mountains to overcome.

6. Still hates me to no end for telling our children. Thinks they never should have known and even if the marriage ends, they should not know exactly why, just that we both can't agree to disagree about problems in our M.

7. Insists that I file since I have labeled her as having committed adultery. I have said and still say that I will never file, that if she wants out, she will be the one. I reiterated that everything is fixable, and that God can rebuild what man tears down. She says that is true but He is not here with us and that she is now to tired and worn out. She has nothing left to give and no longer wants to try. Again, in her very own words, I just want to run away.

So, that is where we are at right now. Nothing has changed in 6 months and it looks as if her desired will is still intact even though the phone records indicate no contact with OM. She never brought OM up in the conversation either but I still believe when they broke it off, they made an agreement to wait it out till summer and then resume.

I guess now it is time to start doing completely for myself and getting my stuff in order in a legal sense.

She is still in the house and wants to hang around in a spare bedroom for the next 6 months, but I'm not sure I will be able to handle that.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

P47d

P47,

You know how many times I heard all of that. Same exact stuff. Same EXACT stuff!! She has no idea what she is saying. Sure, she may go and follow her misguided ideas. Mine did twice.

She can run from man, but she cannot run from God.

Ask her this...why is she putting herself, her family and others before Jesus? Why doesnt she rely on Jesus for her strength? Ask her if she knows that she cannot win against God, that her plans will never be made whole because God is not in her plans...and as a matter of fact, God is totally against her. Tell her that she is wrong about God...He is in the marriage and she can rely on Him. But if she wants to find out what life is truly is like without Jesus, then continue what she is doing. She said she is lonely. She is lonely because she is missing what her family, what her kids, what the OM, and what even you cannot give her...and that is her relationship with Christ back. That hole is too big for any of you to fill.

Tell her P47. She probably will ramble on about the past or whatever. But as her spiritual head, you tell her again where she is headed. Ask her why she has pushed Christ away? Ask her what is she going to do when all of her plans fall thru and her life is ruined, all because she continues to be in rebellion to Him.

Now is the time for stark, honest truth. She knows the truth deep down. Her loneliness is because she is missing Christ. And where she is headed, He will not be there for her. And she will then truly know loneliness!!

Tell her P47. And then get ready for Plan B again...and taking her before the church. The church may not want to do anything because she isnt in active adultery. But she is still in active rebellion to Christ and to her husband. And that is also grounds to be disciplined by the church.

Do not go soft, P47. That was Satan talking there, not God. You knwo the truth. Stick to it. Let Him worry about recovering your wife.

In His arms.

Uhm, those phone calls... I'd say they probably qualify for active adultery. Those are simply way too long of calls...they don't match up. I will say that in this house, those calls make me know something is afoot 1+1!=2 for P47D's wife.

She is trying to either replace her fix of OM with a new one (sort of like swapping cigarettes for chewing tobacco) by using these phone conversations as an out, or she is actually talking to OM through the 'friend', he may actually be on the phone for all anyone knows.

I think you should tell your counselor to blow it out there hole, and call SH. I would put my $5 down that she is still in contact, and SH would tell ya that. 6 months is an extremely long time in the sense of this area. She is more concerned with the kids opinion than yours, and granted I understand that...but there is still something amiss in that perspective. I am sure she is mortified that her kids know she committed adultery...but, you told them with good intentions, you know it, and thats all you can operate from. If you wanted to burn your kids against there mom, you would have shown them her adultery, not told them, that is a huge difference.

I think it's time for you to draw a line in the sand about her disrespect. When my fww came home, we just had a bunch of ice in our house. However, unless we were in 'talk' mode, it just was a quiet house. If you don't have something nice to say, just shut up type thing you know? As the man of the house, you do have control on some things... first of all, your paycheck. I would start this off by getting your own bank account, and isolating your funds from her. Then, those stupid cell phone bills would be nixed...cancel that phone. Turn off long distance on your own home land line, so that you can't get any bills wrung up there. Start stripping away the luxuries of life. You don't have to pamper someone like you are, when they are being so disrespectful to you.

I disagree with the confrontation with her about running from God/Jesus...she knows, and you telling her is just gonna piss her off more. Just like your Pastor did...quit dancing around the issue also... as long as you tell her that you are not gonna file, you enable her. Quit letting her play that stupid card in your face. You can try to find the verbage to turn that around on her...something along the lines of 'when I'm ready to file, I will file, that isn't your decision, that is mine to make....' If you want to file, go ahead and do it, it's fairly simple.

Of course, I'm just a guy here on the screen reading how she is treating you and getting angry for you. You gotta do what you feel is in your heart. But, I see your heart typing on this screen that you have had enough.

Mortar:

>Tell her P47. And then get ready for Plan B again...and taking her before the church. The church may not want to do anything because she isnt in active adultery. But she is still in active rebellion to Christ and to her husband. And that is also grounds to be disciplined by the church.

Church will not move at this point. She must be in active adultery as far as I understand. I will talk with our pastor tonight about the current situation.

Secondly, she is so unhappy with our church, at this point, I doubt that she will care. She said last night that she is merely going through the motions of attending church at this point. She is so upset that people in the church have not ministered to her over the last year, that she really doesn't care. Of course, she says that, but if she were to be brought up before the Elders she might sing another tune.

>Do not go soft, P47. That was Satan talking there, not God. You knwo the truth. Stick to it. Let Him worry about recovering your wife.

I'm not going soft, I'm just disappointed. I know if she stays on this course, I will have to Plan B with her in the house, so I'll just prepare and keep doing what I have been doing.

Now WW has called about 5 times already today. I have a session tomorrow with MC by myself. We were supposed to go back together, but I called him and told him WW does not want to go through this any longer. He was very surprised, and I guess we will talk about it tomorrow.

WW calls and wants to know what I told MC! Told her that I made an appointment and that you didn't want to counsel any longer. I shouldn't have given her that information on hind sight and merely kept her guessing. But I goofed, but I will not goof tomorrow after talking with MC. When she asks what we talked about, I will say it is between me and the MC. Or simply say, issues. See, she did not want to make the call and say she wanted to end it for fear that the MC would then begin to investigate.

Next call she tells me MC offended her at the end of our session. I asked how and she told me. I then asked why she didn't speak up and let him know. I also told her to call him TODAY and tell him that he offended her! It's basically BS on her part, but I get the impression that she is now going to develop a problem with this MC. Remember, our first MC was our pastor and we moved on from him. So I wonder if she wants to move on from this one. This I will not do becasue she has said she really liked the MC, but now she has a problem with him. She is not getting her cake and that is the real issue.

Anyway, today she is retreating or re-examining things. Like you said, in fog, out of fog. Back and forth we go.

p47d

>Uhm, those phone calls... I'd say they probably qualify for active adultery. Those are simply way too long of calls...they don't match up. I will say that in this house, those calls make me know something is afoot 1+1!=2 for P47D's wife.

Well, you gotta know my WW a little. A few years ago, she ran up a 240 minute call to her sister in Wisconsin, so talking for 50 minutes is pretty routine for my WW.

>She is trying to either replace her fix of OM with a new one (sort of like swapping cigarettes for chewing tobacco) by using these phone conversations as an out, or she is actually talking to OM through the 'friend', he may actually be on the phone for all anyone knows.

She is def. trying to replace her drug of choice. Secondly, I have had suspicions or thought about the fact that she has had information relayed to her from her friend about the OM. There's not a whole lot I can do about that, but the call log on her cell phone has shown no contact with OM since mid-Oct. Our land based phone has no long distance access unless you pay for it, and the bill has been O.K.

> I would put my $5 down that she is still in contact, and SH would tell ya that. 6 months is an extremely long time in the sense of this area.

It was an EA and it has only been since Mid-Oct since the second attempt at NC. The first was back in Sept and she failed miserably.

>first of all, your paycheck. I would start this off by getting your own bank account, and isolating your funds from her. Then, those stupid cell phone bills would be nixed...cancel that phone

By law I cannot do that. We have a joint account which is now empty. I switched my paycheck into an account with my name on it only, but it is still considered maritial asset.
We would have to legally separate to separate our funds, but at least I have a separate account setup.

The cell phone (family plan) is in my name. I cannot shut off the phone until Dec. 24th when the contract runs out. Secondly, I'm not sure I want to do that, becasue it would just cause her to go undercover to make the calls and then I would have no record of the calls. So for right now, I have to eat the cell phone bill. Of course, most calls are in plan, but we have had some big bills lately.

>Start stripping away the luxuries of life.

Legally, this is not that easy and not advisable by a lawyer. While she is still under my roof, there is not much I can do with taking away these things. If we separate, then it is another matter. But I cannot just start shutting things off or canceling credit cards that are considered marital assets. I cannot sell the car even though my name is on the loan unless I get her consent because it is a marital asset owned by both.

>as long as you tell her that you are not gonna file, you enable her.

No, I diagree with this because this IS what she wants so that she can tell her family and friends that I was the one that couldn't stick it out and threw in the towel. Secondly, because we do have strong christian beliefs, I Corinthians chapter 6 forbids one believer from taking another believer to court unless it is a criminal matter. Divorce is not one of those issues, so I would violate that Scriptural principle. So, it has to be her that files and it cannot be me. It will show that she is the one that wanted it and not me.

So I'm in no hurry. I can wait a very long time. On the other hand, if she still is involved or wants to be involved with OM, she will crack at some point. Time is an asset at this point to me.

>You gotta do what you feel is in your heart. But, I see your heart typing on this screen that you have had enough.

Yes, my thoughts are running in that direction, by my feelings are otherwise. I have to be careful and realize that this is pretty typical behavior and it probably will get worse before it gets better. Like I said, I have time on my side.

thanks anyway for your concern and comments. I appreciate the input.

p47d

She has admittedly committed adultery. The only way for you to get out of the marriage is to file for divorice. To do this, you must go to court. God clearly states that adultery is tolerable reason for divorice, even though he still hates divorice. So, I do not believe you are interpreting the passage correctly...I don't think we are told by God it is ok to divorice and then He would tell us that we can't file the paperwork... that is double-talk in my mind, and God is not like that.

Does that make any sense? It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of a reason to not file. I'm sorry, but you could walk down and file this second, and be free of 'sin' for that particular process.

Its possible if her friend is helping by the friend three waying her call to the OM. That way all it shows on the bill is the original call to her friend. Just thinking out loud.

>She has admittedly committed adultery. The only way for you to get out of the marriage is to file for divorice.

Who says I want to get out of the marriage? I don't want a divorce. I'm trying to restore the marriage.

>To do this, you must go to court. God clearly states that adultery is tolerable reason for divorice, even though he still hates divorice.

This should be the last resort. Right now, I am not going to go to court except to protect myself. I can wait. She is the one that is in a hurry.

Secondly, if I file, I am doing HER work. I am making the decision for HER. By me not filing, I put the responsibility on her to do it. Right now, she cannot make up her mind and therefore wants me to make up her mind for her, which I will not do. I talked to my MC this morning and he agrees wholeheartedly to not file. She MUST be the one to initiate, not me.

>It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of a reason to not file. I'm sorry, but you could walk down and file this second, and be free of 'sin' for that particular process.

Depends on the laws in your state. Where I live, she is not guilty of adultery per say, but is only guilty of adultery of the heart. In my state, physical contact or at least the opportunity for PC had to happen. With the OM 700 miles away, that has not happened. So, what would I file for? The best I could do right now is legal separation which then involves a 1 year waiting period in my state before a divorce can be final. If adultery is involved, it is a 3 month period.

Again, I will not file. If she wants to separate, she can file and then I will proceed to protect myself.

Most of all, I want to restore. Filing on my part only enables her and gives her the green light. If our M is to end, she will be the one to end it, not me.

p47d

Update on Wed

Haven't posted in almost a week and this is an update as to what has been going on.

WW is still on the warpath, although subdued.

WW's long time friend came for a visit this past weekend and it was nice. Basically, the two of them went off and did their thing which left me and DD "home alone".

Visit went well and you must know that this friend of WW's does not approve in any way with WW current position of leaving and disolving the M. It is her other best and closest friend that is enabling WW. I did manage about 1 minute alone with her and told her WW was ringless and that she was planning on leaving in June. She just rolled her eyes and said that she is struggling in a mightly way. I will call her maybe tonight to thank her for coming. She is the only one that has gone out of her way knowing my WW's current situation by coming for a visit.

Anyway, this gave me some more time with DD and we talked about the real reality of mom leaving. That she could not D her mother and that no matter what, she must still love her.

DD at church wants to sit next to me and makes WW move over! WW then questions me later in the afternoon about our chat and exactly what did I tell her seeing that it was odd that DD would want to sit next to me and make an issue out of it! Paranoid? Remember, she had just told me only days before that she could no longer do "this". See my earlier reply. Didn't tell DD of that, but just said that mom does not want to be here any longer and is struggling and could walk at any moment.

Then on Sunday, DS comes home. WW now wants all 4 of us to go to MC to talk about issues. Of course, the no. 1 issue is me telling them and the effect it has had on them. In a nutshell, they love mom but do not agree with her actions and are sticking to it. So, WW wants to discuss their "attitude" with MC. "We" have to come to or make some decisions. No dear, it is not a we decision but you're decision! I'm here to work on the M, are you?

Son is against going to MC and says that it is either stay or go and that is all he wants to hear. Frankly, he is right but I think it would be good for all of us to go so that the MC can hear exactly what children are thinking and saying. MC has already told me I have one smart son for some of the stuff he as asked his mom about concerning this matter.

Moving on, gave him the same speach as DD and told him he cannot D mom, and that he needs to love and understand, and make up his own mind on if he accepts it or not.

WW is distant to say the least. Non affectionate at all. Everything is me! I am literally doing everything and I am now becomming miffed. I didn't cause this and yet it is all on me to make it work!

To top it off, I now get sick, again! I have been sick now more times in 5 months than I have in 10 years! I missed perfect attendance in high school by one day! Yes, that is 4 years of missing one day! Now, it seems like I am sick all the time and going to the MD for all kinds of stuff. Have high blood pressure and never have had that. Two med's for that. Med's for sleeping. And then the heart cath! Not to mention several bouts with the flu including the latest.

What gives? Again, I am the BS here and WW is just puttering along like nothing has happened!

Enough of that...Last night, went out to buy a few presents even though I am sick. Went to bed early and then this morning get a call from WW. Seems she had a talk with DS last night for 1.5 hours. She is crying on the phone saying that DS is unreachable! That he is not listening and does not want to understand "her" side of the story. She says I have brainwashed them into seeing only one side of the story and that they totally support me and see her as the fall guy. Months ago, she did predict that this would happen and now that it is happening, she can't deal with it. It IS the major hurdle at this point and she has said that this one issue will prevent her from moving forward with restoration. This is hogwash and I'm not buying it. The issue is her unwillingness to face the music, not my unwillingness to deal with the issue.

Still believes they were to young to know although she planned to tell them in a joint session this summer that "we" can not live together any longer. Ahh, that is not a we dear, but a you! Son again reiterated his position that it is either stay or go. If it is go, then WW should go now and not wait till summer cause it will break his heart even more. She tries to bring up past stuff and he just says he does not care about the past, but only the now and the future. Dad is willing to stick it out, how about you? Of course WW wants to bring up the past because that seemingly justifies her actions! Not with my kids it doesn't! DS grades are an issue and he then says that no wonder. He had some issues to deal with last semester! WW now is using that as a, "see I told you they were to immature and now look what it has done to your son!"

She again lays on the family stuff in that our kids will still be loved by family (hers). That they will always have "a" family (hers) even though our unit will cease to exist. I told her that they want "their" family and that you could not make them accept another family, but she says I should be encouraging that! I have not discouraged it, but her family cannot replace our family.

I then asked WW if she told DS what she told me the other night about not being able to do "this" any longer. She said no, and that it was just her feelings. I then said that it is clear that this is what you want, right? Why else continually speak this way? But I'm sure she was to afraid to tell son that since she is trying to promote the "we" need to make a decision, and "we" this and "we" that.

So, she hung up crying and said that they left their conversation saying that they loved each other. WW told DS that if that is the way he is going to feel, then "Oh, well". Which loosely translates, "you three deserve each other, and I'm outta here!" P.S., "You will regret that you treated your mother in this way." She has said all this over the months so I know this true even reading between the lines.

I'm sure now that I will be speaking with a lawyer next week about my options during separation. I know it is coming and it is just a matter of when and not if. WW at this moment does not want to return to MC either. She is not the least bit affectionate either even though she has been in NC for now 2 months.

My shinning moment in all of this has been the behavior of my children. They have stood up to mom and told her what they think and how they are hurt by her actions. So, maybe WW and I did do something right in this M afterall.

I go home tonight beaten down. Christmas is a difficult time for me right now seeing that most of the songs and cheer that is being passed around deal with joy, love, and peace which is anything but what I am thinking and feeling right now. Looked for a card for WW yesterday, and it was difficult finding ones that fit the occassion! Hah! I almost cried reading those cards and thinking what was and what could be, but now is dying quickly. I broke down at T'day and I can't imagine, nor do I look forward to Christmas and all the trimmings. Gift giving this year is totally meaningless and so shallow I can hardly forgive myself for even thinking about opening presents!

Anyway, I can still hope and pray that this will change. Right now, I just need enough strength to make it through this holiday season.

p47d

P47D,

Are you done feeling sorry for yourself? Well if you are not, then get it done NOW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You said
It is YOUR job to make sure your children have a good Christmas. It is YOUR job to get off of this. You may have lost your W, but you have not lost your children, you have not lost most of the good things in life.

I will repeat you said
IF you have presents to open this year you should on your knees and give a prayer of thanks. Many don't even have that. The fact that you will get to see your children's faces as they open theirs should bring joy to your heart.

There is a saying from when I was in the military "They can kill me but they cannot eat me." I think it applies here.

Your W can and probably will leave, but she cannot take your children's love away. She cannot take your love away for them, and yes even her. You have much to be thankful for, so start doing some thanking P47D.

I know this situation is NOT what you want, and I know it is painful, but there is more to life than your W, and you have to excellent examples as off-spring. Mr. you need to realize what you have, and stop worrying so much about what you are losing. As it stands now, and based on her actions you are NOT losing much, so be thankful for what you do have, and make darned sure you ENJOY this Christmas season, and remember it is a season of HOPE and JOY.

P47D, get with it, and start making this a as good a time for your children as you can, and probably the biggest gift you can give them is your smile, your laughter, your joy that you have them in your life.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

>Are you done feeling sorry for yourself? Well if you are not, then get it done NOW

Not feeling sorry for myself, it's just that I'm not the only one who gets depressed at Christmas time. This year just happens to be doubly tough with constant reminders.

>It is YOUR job to make sure your children have a good Christmas. It is YOUR job to get off of this. You may have lost your W, but you have not lost your children, you have not lost most of the good things in life.

I DO realize that it is my job to make my kids have a good christmas and I'm sure they will despite the circumstances. I know I have not lost my children but as time goes on, I could possibly lose the love of my life and that stinks. Yea, I'll get over it, but it still hurts.

>I know this situation is NOT what you want, and I know it is painful, but there is more to life than your W, and you have to excellent examples as off-spring. Mr. you need to realize what you have, and stop worrying so much about what you are losing. As it stands now, and based on her actions you are NOT losing much, so be thankful for what you do have, and make darned sure you ENJOY this Christmas season, and remember it is a season of HOPE and JOY.

Trust me when I say I am so proud of my childrens actions through all this and I know they are special indeed. I also realize that many have it far worse than me. Just the other day there was a huge accident in our area with the loss of 2 lives in one car. The survivor in that car was a 2 year old, as the parents were killed. I thought about that a lot on the way in to work and realized how lucky I was and that I'm going to have a great christmas compared to the relatives of that family. My problems pale in comparison to theirs.

Anyway, thanks for the shout out. And FWIW, thanks for your service to our country.

p47d

P47d

I am reading and listening. I don't have much advice cause I have not been in your situation. As we discussed on the phone all you can do is be the best you can be. Leap your partner and grow as a better person and husband in spite of her. It's her choice to come along or not, period. Just maybe you'll attrack her back to you. I've seen on these boards many times that when all seems lost and the BS just gives up and moves on with their life they WS's take notice and finally chose to not remain behind.

My hope for your family this holiday season is that S wakes up and at least gives you and her kids an HONEST attempt at reconciliation.

I'll be leaving town Friday thru Jan 3rd (Atlanta). We'll be taking my wife's new laptop with us but probably won't be around as much.

Mr. Wondering