After reading here for the last couple of years, it suddenly struck me tonight how tired I am of the selfishness of so many. I don't even blame them, but instead think it is a societal thing.

Most of us posting here are in the top 95 percentile of the WORLD. We have jobs, homes, families, enough to eat, and can even afford a computer, and access to the web.
But for some reason, that is just not enough for many.

I was brought up (okay, I'm OLD) to believe that my purpose here on earth is not just to use up oxygen. Most people are happier when they are doing something for a bigger cause, helping people, doing something important.

It sometimes astounds me how people that seemingly have it all are so unhappy that they have to betray their partner and vows. They are even willing to throw away their children. It seems to me that the problem goes much deeper than anything that is addressed on this board. It is a sickness of the soul.

Some days I'm even at peace with the loss of my marriage. At least it gave me a wake-up call to what is really important in my life. Okay, vent over, please return to the forum.

Believer,
Harley talks about the Giver and Taker. Those who give at their personal expense can end up matched with a person who takes at the expense of their partner. Of course, that's not how the Takers see it -- but infidelity reveals the selfishness of the WS. The BS has a sickness, too, I believe -- or at least those who put up with disregard that often proceeds an affair -- in that the BS is willing to tolerate disregard and so reveals an innate lack of self-regard.
Cherished

Hey b,

I think that you see that a lot of that here because most here are in so much pain. Weaver said that once, when she was down. Whe had forgotten how self-centered we get when we hurt. When I get real down, sometimes I get sick of hearing me whine! But here is kinda nice, cause people can read it or not. I may stop calling my friends because I am sick of hearing myself bi+ch, esp about the same stuff over and over and over..blah blah...But still feel like this can be an outlet at those times, cause my friends won't hang up on me, but you guys can skip right over my post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I do know what you mean. I think that you are more of a giver than most, b. I see you reaching out to people here all the time. Maybe because you are healing so well, it makes it easier for you. Or you are just like that. The stop smoking and building a house story was great! I would never have thought of that - I am much more selfish. I would take a vacation or buy a horsey thing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

You are right tho b, I sometimes have to stop and breath (esp outside and at the barn) and count my blessings. I put things in much better perspective once I had kids. That is one of the reasons that I got so mad when my H was griping about his life (on my infamous tape)- "as bad as it gets, it ain't that bad", that's how I thought BEFORE all this happened. I was treated for depression, in my (much) younger days. Since then, MOST people think that I have a great outlook on life, but it doesn't show as much HERE. And it hasn't been as great since D-day.

Maybe you need a break girl. Or just go back to Iville and joke around awhile - it can be a great escape. Hmm, vacation at Idiotville?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Don't think those vacation shares will sell for much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

But that's all just what I, I, I think! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

jls

"as bad as it gets, it ain't that bad"

Hey, I think I will adopt that as my new sig line.

Cherished - Even after going thru all of this, I would rather give at my personal expense.

My life (even on D-day) has been a picnic compared to many folks here.

And the thing that bothers me is the lack of gratitude that many folks have. Just having a healthy family is such a blessing. How can some walk away from that?

My wife's EA was a wake-up call. Intended to teach me that this "take up your cross" business isn't just a bunch of bullwash. When the Master calls a person, he bids them to come and die. Not palaver about it. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Believer - just been to speech night at my daughter's school and the guest speaker (who brought tears to my eyes) kind of talked about this.

He said he was a lawyer and he was good at it but he saw so many people unhappy, turning from God, cheating, betraying their partners. He knew there was a better purpose in life for him. He now chairs the HK World Wildlife Fund and champions enviromental causes and feels so fulfilled. Gave up law. He was a powerful speaker who captivated his audience. He wished the students would find, in the future, the thing that will make them say "this is the reason for my life".

Can I just state again that I think your Mexican house gesture was one of the greatest gifts of giving I have 'witnessed'. You're a star. TT

[color:"red"] EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

believer:

>It sometimes astounds me how people that seemingly have it all are so unhappy that they have to betray their partner and vows. They are even willing to throw away their children. It seems to me that the problem goes much deeper than anything that is addressed on this board. It is a sickness of the soul.

Many of us in here would classify that sickness of soul very simply, and in fact only use one word, which is SIN.

Not to turn this into a religious class, but again, many see it as pure and simple sin. Disobedience is another good word.

Many of us here also see that this is nothing new. Affairs have been going on since Adam and Eve. King David is perhaps the poster boy for adultery, and look what it got him.

Pure and simple, sin is sin and there is no more of it now than there was 3000 years ago. Need we be remined of Sodom, King David, the woman caught in the VERY ACT of adultery in the New Testament.

So, it's nothing new, it just seems like there is more of it, but that is more of an outcropping of technology where we have more access to what is going on in the world.

The main point is, affairs and the selfishness that drives them has been a part of man since the garden of Eden. Same sin, different day.

But you are right, it is sad. I told a friend today that my situation could be worse. I could have a terminal illness, or my W or one of my kids could be disabled or in a coma. I have my health, and my kids are healthy. My WW is CHOOSING a certain path. It is her choice and unfortunately, there are consequences to all of our choices.
But that is life.


p47d

When all of this is over, I think I may be like one of those alcoholics who is thankful for being an alcholic, because he learned a better way of living through AA.

Before D-day, I went through my life almost in a stupor. Went to work, took care of the kids, cooked, cleaned, and did it all over again the next week. I thought I was grateful for all that I had, but I wasn't really.

Anyway, back to the board to read about more folks throwing it all away.

I was just thinking about this stuff this morning and then read this again and realized that this is part of my resentment. My H has always been the "downer" in this M to a point. Worry worry sad down about "dumb junk", I always said that we had it (before d-day) so good financially and such, and would tell him at least our kids were healthy . One of the things that got me so mad was that he was so mad about STOOPID stuff, that made me even madder. Whining about him him him.

Yeah, I wasn't showing him the appreciation he deserved, but nor was I getting any appreciation. ( I really think that I could do better now if he would get on board ) I just didn't expect a lot of thank yous from everybody. This is life.

I was thinking today that my H is really a big baby (actually already knew this) and couldn't handle it when reality came up and gave him a big bite in the [censored]. Well,I had lived reality.. give me a break,slap a bandaid on it and go on. Life is not just roses and I never promised him a rose garden, nor did I expect one in return. There are gonna be weeds. Buck up and get out the weedwhacker, don't just sit there and say poor poor me!!! The weeds just get worse. (I know that some here may think that this is me- so not). H wouldn't even admit to me that he saw the weeds, much less help cut em down.

I always liked the saying "Get over yourself" ! So I guess I will now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

B,

I am with you on this!

It may be an old cliché, but I think it's true: one can see life as a glass half full or half empty.

With experience of A, one thing I know for sure now, I may lose sight of it sometimes, but bottom line, I am a person who sees life as a glass half full, because, inspite of everything, I can appreciate my boys, my family, my friends, having a roof over my head and food on the table, having clothes to wear, having a job, the MB board, time to go to the movies, time to read a good book, a sunny day or a rainy day for that matter, the wind blowing in my hair and face, a nice cup of coffee and muffins, curled up in front of the TV watching a gorry CSI episode while my boys are warm and safe and sleeping in their rooms, walking my big dog, having my SIL telling me she loves me, telling my S9 not to ever forget that I love him and him telling me 'I know that already mom', hugging my boys each morning and telling them to have a nice day, my mom sending me hugs and kisses over the phone, my brother telling me he thinks of me often and will now try to call me whenever he does rather than just think about me, having a washing machine, having a beer with natchos, having a friend tell me that in difficult times she thinks of me and what I would be telling her to help her get through, having a ME to be there for me!

It looks like my WS may have knocked me down, but I can see that everyday I am getting up, dusting myself off, and getting stronger.

Bottom line, I have discovered that I am a person who can appreciate LIFE, and it looks like that even a WS and A has not been able to take that away from me. It's the greatest gift I have, and for a time, I worried that I had lost it. Well, it doesn't look like I have, from the looks of things, thank goodness!

A big Italian hug from me to all of you!

B. can't blame you for being tired of the selfishness, because there is way too much if it going around to be healthy! Like too much salt in a soup!

[color:"green"]I think it is pridefulness [/color]

What a great post Lunamare,
You have stated your blessings beautifuly.

You are a blessing to your family too.

I have a friend who was a former patient of mine. I met her about 8 years ago. She is such an inspiration for me. She is 39 now, she is a single mom her daughter is 17. She is a very brittle diabetic, she lost her vision when she was pregnant she has never seen her child's face. She was on dialysis. She had one leg amputated and the other suffered with chronic wounds. She has the strongest faith in God that I have ever witnessed. She got a kidney transplant last year and is now thankfully off of dialysis. She prayed and prayed for her other leg to be amputated. The doctors had been trying to save it. I asked her why she wanted it to be amputated. "Because they have been fooling around with the wounds so long, theres so much pain, just take it off so I can get a fake leg and get on with my life." They amputated the leg 3 months ago...she can now walk in her apt with 2 "fake" legs and no other assistive device. She now prays for her sight to be restored. She sees when she dreams and is thankful for it.

She gets social security and has very few material possessions. What money she gets she spends on food and her DD. "God will provide" and he has. Our church has annonymous donations that come for her, household items, new clothing. I asked her a few years ago what she would like for Christmas for herself. "On TV I heard this commercial for shampoo and I would really like to try it...it sounds like it is really good! Clariol Herbal Essence" Of all the things to ask for she wanted to indulge in shampoo!!!!

When I get on my pity pot...I think of her. When I look for strength I think of her. Now that she is mobil she plans to take some college classes and wants to be a motivational speaker for patients in rehab. She could be a motivational speaker for ANYONE!

I have thought about this too, believer. I wonder if it isn't almost like our "portion distortion" we have here in the U.S., why so many of us are FAT. We just don't even consciously THINK about stuff, like how much food is really on the plate in front of us, how blessed we are to have a home and a spouse and healthy kids.

I have caught myself getting caught up in it, as well. I keep thinking, we need a bigger house. But when I look at our home, it is big enough for us! Each child has a room, we have a living room and a family room, I have a nice big kitchen, I LOVE the way the light comes in my house all day long, we have a yard big enough that we barely maintain it (we aren't big yard people), we have a garage. Sure, we have lots of stuff, and it is a challenge to find places to put it all, but if we moved to a bigger house, we'd just fill that up, too! Because it isn't really about the STUFF, or the size of the house. It's about taking the time to organize, to appreciate, to really believe "I have everything I need right now."

That's what an A is all about, too, IMO. One person not being happy, and looking OUTSIDE of themselves for a fix, for happiness, even for the reason they aren't happy! Which is why they find another person to fix them, to make them happy, and why they blame all the unhappiness in their lives on the spouse.

As we learn here, nobody can MAKE somebody happy, or even unhappy. All of that comes from within. Instead of looking outside ourselves for happiness, we all need to tune in and look inside ourselves. IMVHO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

SS -

You are exactly right. I am FINALLY happy with what I have, and it isn't much by some people's standards. But it is everything that I need - a warm and loving home, healthy and happy kids and grandkids, a job I mostly love, and wonderful friends.

I often think of you, and Brett too. Glad you are content and I hope he is too.

A big part of my wife's angst (which helped contribute to her wandering) is financial. It's utterly ridiculous, because we both have very good paying professional jobs which allow us to spend gobs of time playing, eating out, etc. Our bounty has never bothered me, and I really think it's because I was given the gift of faith which has budded into the ability to cheerfully give a portion of my income to charity--an amount which my heart is comfortable with. She hasn't been given the gift of belief or faith yet, therefore the giving isn't there either. She rages over our finances and how disciplined we ought to be, yet aren't--of course, she doesn't want to give up any of the play either. I'm happy as a clam with the play, because I'm not guilty about what I make.

Go figure.

chasid -

I really think that a lot of it has to do with FOO issues. My WH was raised in an extremely disfunctional family. I don't think he will ever get over it.

On D-day, we were both federal workers, well paid, with good benefits. We had 2 homes, 2 late model cars, 3 Harley-Davidsons (one brand new), a boat, and healthy, happy kids. But it wasn't enough.

We are also Christians, and were very active in the church. My WH has thrown that away too.

believer-

a good illustration of how professed belief constitutes zero inoculation against sin. There was some infamous poll years ago which claimed to show that a certain large, well-known religious group suffered from a divorce rate higher than the general population. I believe it. In my family, I'm the believer, she's not. Yet, in many ways she's morally superior to me--even now, in the midst of the worst offense she's ever committed against me, I still see the light in her, and I see plenty of darkness in me to exorcise yet. That's one reason I treasure her so much-- she really WAS a light to my conscience in many ways, despite her inner despair. Yet, that was the problem. So much of her "goodness" was driven by fear, not hope. It's a dead-end road. Grace is ultimately an offense to some people. As our lives play out, we discover whether or not we were truly living it, or faking it. The more we mess up, the harder our hearts can become. I don't want her to mess up and harden her heart further. But it may be the only way.

Entitlement and greed.

That's what I think causes many people to cheat. They think they do in fact need MORE!

God's been good. I've lost about 75 percent of my previous before divorce money. But I am healthy and happy. My son feels loved and protected with me. I have a good job. My son is loving, wonderful, bright and the most incredible blessing in life. I save up for everything decent I get. No more elaborate shopping sprees...but I am also really happy...and have peace.

Now my xh...he has more money than he knows what to do with. He has 2 boats..navigator, bmw7 series, and a mercedes convertible. building dream home on lake. Married to a former model (yea right) and has 2 kids . Is he happy? No. He wants MORE! He can't seem to put his finger on what is missing?

What is missing is peace. Knowing when you have enough. And being at peace with life period.

We had a good marriage. We became blessed financially. wE had our incredible son. I was a good and devoted and faithful wife...he used to include me in everything...until...he wanted well, MORE>

And did I mention we were very active in our church back home? We had numerous sunday school parties at our home...and darth even used to play on the softball team...was really good and had some great guy friends..but that was well...back when he was the Husband I remember. He used to go to church on sundays, dressed so nicely...in sharp suit and tie...and we'd sit in the left corner on the second balcony...and he'd put his arm around me during the sermon or hold my hand. That is the man I knew. The man I took my vows with at that church. The man who also took vows during our son's dedication at that church to be a good husband and parent..dedicated to raising our son in a loving Christian home.

Now? He dresses like a club going 20something...gone is his cute preppy look I fell for 10 years ago. He looks like he just returned from south beach or something...teeth bleached too...and veneers! (didn't need em). Where did this man go? He now only resembles the man I loved.

Like the TV commercial...it's all about the big O now...overstock, overbuying, and yes...THAT OTHER O TOO!

Maybe it was good that I had the chance to lose so much...because now "I get" what life is about..and what is to be held dear and near to your heart. My son and family, faith, friends, and my pursuit of learning and my profession.

Like stitch says in the movie, "we are a little family..broken, but good."