Hello everyone, I have posted my situation on alt.support.marriage got some good advice from there and was also referred to do some reading on this website. So I thought I'd post here as well to see if there are any different points of view from readers of this forum. From ASM I think I know what I must do now but hope that someone may have some more insight into my situation and can offer any other suggestions. I am currently 33, my wife 32, We don't have any children. We were married in 1998, during our graduate school training. At that time, we had known each other for >7 years but only dated for ~2 years. Marriage was exciting we were living in NYC while going to school, but as we moved closer to our family and friends, during more of my postgraduate training, we began having some arguments about time spent with my family and friends. At some point she felt her emotional needs not being met by me. As much as I wanted to assure her that my love and devotion was only for her, my needs to spend time occasionally (~2-3 times a month) with family and friends were seen as my lack of emotional need for her or lack of romance in our relationship or my loss of attraction for her (I don't know for sure). She tried to set rules and restrict my time with family and friends I felt "Trapped" and didn't know what to do so my response was to pull away even further and argue. Over 1-2 years, because of these fights, she moved back to her parents' home (15min away) temporarily several times out
of anger but at the request of her parents I always apologized and asked her to return home after 2-3 days.
14 months ago however, she moved home and I didn't apologize nor did I contact her. 1 ½ months later she filed for divorce. It crushed me. I begged her to give us another try and that I will change. Over the past year we saw a marriage counselor ~8-9 months ago for a few months. Our therapist was pretty much worthless in bringing up the issue of meeting eachother's needs. Looking back, she took our
words at face value. At least in my case, never got down to my feelings. She had no insight into our problem. And for any given scenario, she would give conflicting messages by saying what my wife wants to hear in private session with
her and what I want to hear in my private session. I also reduced my activities with friends and tried to be more
romantic but she doesn't recognize it. I have never asked her to limit her activities with her family (which live within few minutes from us and see her almost daily) nor her activities with her friends (which live further away). During the past 14 months of separation without our divorce finalized, we continued to have 2-3 battles with her refusing to talk to me for weeks at a time and her threatening to finalize the divorce. The latest, however, was different. 2 weeks after hanging up on me at the end of August 2005, with no contact between us, she moved away from
the area to San Francisco. I did not find out until 2 wks after the fact through her brother-in-law (he and I work in the same office). Again this crushed me; I immediately tried to contact her through phone and emails with no response. Only an email saying: "We've been through all this before. We're not a good match. I have moved on and hope you have as well. It's better to not have any contact so we can both heal from our wounds. Please don't call me about this." There was no final "I'm moving forward with the divorce", nor did she remove any of her possessions from my apartment (eg. furniture, appliances). It was simply a move away to an area where she has only one friend that she talks to occasionally and no contact with me. In my panic I drove up to SF where she was staying with a friend and pleaded with her to talk to me. She finally agreed and spoke to me for ~45min. I lay out that I'm willing to move away from family and friends to be with her, just as she moved away from her family. That my views on my so called "friends" have changed not only that I don't NEED to spend time with them but that I don't WANT to spend time with them. She stated that these were just words to get back together again and she does not want to get back together because she is not putting herself through this again. Since then, in the past 3 weeks, I have sent 2 emails to her, writing about my understandings and new realizations. She has responded only once to an email about a marriage seminar weekend that "she can't do this to her self anymore". I'm afraid that this marriage is irreversibly damaged but I like to hold out hope that there is still a small ember within her that I can restart. I still like to believe that if her needs were met by me in terms of intimacy, priority, and romance, that we would be happy in our marriage. But at this time I don't know how to get her to listen to me and let her know that without appearing to further lose self-respect and her respect for me. At the same time I fear that if I don't try to reverse this situation now before the idea of divorce is solidified with the final court order, that I may never have the chance again. I know this is wordy but if anyone has any constructive advice on how I can save my marriage I would really appreciate any input... If the audience here is largely cross-over from ASM then please just ignore this thread.

Do I understand you correctly above? You are worried that if you let her know you are now willing to meet her needs that she might "lose respect for you" and you might lose respect for yourself? Can you help me understand how being willing to meet her needs would cause a loss of respect because I am not following you.

Stu, I see that your wife seemed to have a problem with you spending time with your friends and/or family?

What was it that you would do with your friends that would be so bothersome to your wife?

I'm just trying to understand your situation a little better.

Lady

Melodylane said: "Do I understand you correctly above? You are worried that if you let her know you are now willing to meet her needs that she might "lose respect for you" and you might lose respect for yourself? Can you help me understand how being willing to meet her needs would cause a loss of respect because I am not following you."

Losing respect because mainly she doen't want to talk to me any more and if I keep pursuing her would appear too desperate or needy.

Ladysheep said: "What was it that you would do with your friends that would be so bothersome to your wife?"

Nothing in particular, I remember her saying that I don't act the same around this group of friends vs when we are alone, same applies to my family. I think the main issue is that she doesn't feel comfortable around them and therefore doesn't want to spend too much time around them. Perhaps I don't show her the same affection as when we are alone or with her friends or her family.

Okay, well there may be more to the story than friends and family...it doesn't make sense that friends and family would be the reason she is leaving the marriage.


Do you think there is a chance she had an affair? Or is having an affair?

Lady

Did you include her with your friends and family or was she left alone?

Marriage Builders has a concept called 'Point of Joint Agreement'(POJA for short). Read about that concept.

Your story doesn't make a lot of sense. Did you really mainly argue about time spent with friends and family? Were you guilty of too much independent bahavior...kind of a married single?

If she doesn't deal with this she will probably carry these issues into any other future relationship she has.

We deal with a lot of infidelity on this forum. Are you certain there hasn't been an OM involved?

I must be in denial because the few people I've spoken to about this said the same thing... the friend she has up in SF is a guy from her grad school. I know the guy because we all were friends when we lived in NYC. I have also been comforted by the fact that
1. Knowing her character, I cannot imagine her to accept herself as someone who is married and having an affair. It is so against everything she believes in.
2. I knew she has never had such feelings for this guy. (perhaps that has changed)
3. When I spoke to her in SF, she denied having any relationship with him. Even as I left SF, distraught, I left her a voicemail saying that he was a nice guy and would take good care of her. She actually returned my call angry about the accusation.
Now I believe that she could have possibly have had an EA with this guy because she wouldn't necessarily recognize that as an affair in her state of mind. Although, I know up 'til now most of the time she has been relying on her girl friends (who are single) for emotional support.

I have always tried to include her in activities with friends and family. As I said, I believe that she feels very uncomfortable around them probably mostly due to my behavior around them. We tried this whole thing about going out with those friends occ w/o her because of her discomfort but that made things worse so I stopped.
Main issues with friends: She has a strong dislike for one of the wives in this group of friends and overall just the group dynamics; especially when she has to talk to this women she doesn't like.
Main issues with family: My family is much more Patriarchal than in her family. She would call it "male-shovenism". My family here in the States consist of my older brother, his wife and 2 boys 12 & 8. Occasionally my parents visit here and stay in that house. When we visit, she feels uncomfortable about my mom and SIL doing all the house work and she doesn't. She also complains that I behave just like my Bro and Dad when I'm there. Perhaps she feel threatened that if we spend too much time there, that eventually our relationship will end up that way.

It sounds like there could be a possibility of an EA.


2-3 times a month does not seem like an unreasonable time to spend with your family. Maybe she didn't have what you had and resented that. She didn't feel close to family and friends as you did...is what I mean. Maybe she felt left out a lot....I don't know.


I hope it's not to late for your marriage.... but it does sound like she was very much neglected....I'm sorry to say.

A woman can only accept the crumbs and left-overs for so long.

I hope you can do something to change her mind, but the other posters will have to help you as to where to begin.

Lady

"Maybe she didn't have what you had and resented that. She didn't feel close to family and friends as you did..."

She was much closer to her family, past 2-3 yrs she see someone in her family almost daily because of the proximity. Her friends however were ~1 hr away so they only saw each other perhaps every other month.

I can't say, but it's something you need to look at. Maybe she was right in a way...not meaning to hurt your feelings.
Wives must never be left to feel like they are less than, or not priority. Because in a marriage a wife has to be priority. Maybe she didn't feel that important to you.

It sounds like you have already made many promises, but it sounds like her love bank for you has now been emptied.

Maybe some else can share with you as to a plan to try get her back. Being the distance that she is I'm not sure as how to help you. ..

......But even if she does return she needs love.

Lady

"not meaning to hurt your feelings. Wives must never be left to feel like they are less than, or not priority. Because in a marriage a wife has to be priority. Maybe she didn't feel that important to you."

I appreciate the honest truth, So don't worry about hurting my feeling. This issue of priority is something I didn't fully understand until recently. I simply trusted my own words that she is my #1 priority. As I reflect, she would ask me what I would do if she got into an argument with my parents, who's side I would be on. I always gave some answer about depending on who's right...sigh. Now I realize those were tests that I failed to prove to her of her place in my priority list. In my reexamination of our life guided by the principles on this website, I realize many of my own faults and failures. It is really something how when your spouse points them out you don't hear them or see them. But when it is through self discovery as in my situation it is clear as day.

I know what you mean stu, sometimes it's too late, and that is why we are all here. To learn what we can do to get our mates back, and a better marriage than ever before.

Have you read the book by the Harleys called His Needs/Her Needs. I would highly recommend it. And a copy sent to your wife. It's worth a try.

If your wife has access to a computer, is it possible you could lead her here to see what you are learning, and that you are ready to be a better husband?


Lady

I'm in the process of reading that book now, just purchased it from the store, do you recommend "Love Buster" as well?

I have composed an email stating that I "happened" to find this website and found a lot of good reading and stating I was ready to become a better husband...But that email is sitting in my draft box of my email, unsent; not sure if she is in a state of acceptance for that kind of a thing. She certainly wasn't up for the weekend seminar that my friend proposed. I certainly believe that she might take offense to sending her a book like this insinuating that she needs to do some changing to meet my needs. An email to say this is what I've learned from this site and allow her the space and privacy to look through the site herself, I thought, might be less intrusive. I don't know, I'm afraid to send it so soon after getting rejected about the weekend marriage seminar.

I think you are right about that...probably not a good idea to send that right now.


I think that is a good idea to send it. This is letting her know you are thinking of her, and your marriage, and bettering yourself for her. It shows her your persistence to not give up. In a way... I think it is a great start into Plan A.

Lady

Thanks Ladysheep for all of your support and input.
I'll look through that letter again and make sure everything sounds good and send it to her.

Okay stu, I really hope it goes well, and you get a good response from your W. Please let us know.

Lady

Thanks, I don't know when or if I'll get any reponse, but if I do, I certainly will update here. until then I'll perusing the website for additional insights.

Bump ~~~ Hoping a few guys can help stu....here.

Bump gain