Of course there is always hope. I would have a heart to heart talk with him and insist on counseling. You are much to early in marriage to have so many problems.

It is true that he may have emotional needs that are not being met, but also there are some people who have so many problems that no one could be expected to meet them.

I suggest counseling for him and marriage counseling for both of you.

Thank you.. I am trying to be cautious but I also appreciate the many years of him being there for me through incredibly difficult situations, so how can I turn my back when he is BEGGING me for another chance? This is a far cry from the defensive, angry reaction when I first confronted him about the internet friendships. Maybe it's just the "honeymoon" phase and won't last, I don't know, but I am afraid if I don't try, then I will always wonder. And even though the marraige has been pretty terrible so far, I'd always miss his friendship.

Just an update... I did go back to my husband and so far, he seems to be working very hard to make amends. First of all, he initiated a move to a city only 1/2 an hour away from the two children I don't have custody of, because he knows how much I've missed them since moving away fromt he area. And then last weekend, when we had them visit, he made a huge effort to make ammends with them and to start rebuilding a better relationship with them. As far as the internet friendships, he hasn't visited any of them again. (as far as I can tell anyway) We are going to counseling and church. He is very affectionate, loving, kind and seems devoted to me and the kids. The only problem seems to be that he isn't interested in me sexually. With my past experience, a huge red flag goes up for me, suggesting he is getting sex somewhere else, but logically, I don't really think that is it. First of all, we're in a new area and don't know anyone, and secondly, there haven't been any suspicious unnaccounted for times, like there used to be. I asked him if it was because I am pregnant and he said no, he still thinks I'm gorgeous, it's just that we've hurt each other so much over the last few months, he's afraid to let his guard down and fall in love with me again. His brother says he can't touch me because he knows how bad he screwed up and feels guilty about it. What do you guys think? And what do I do about it?!!! It's driving me nuts because it's been almost a month now that we've been back together and I am falling back in love with him!

I've read some of the other posts about withdrawel and fog, and am wondering if that is maybe what I'm seeing with him. He still brings up the call to the police and how it has caused so many of our problems, like making it hard to find another job or even a place to rent, due to them doing a background check on him. This comes up about once or twice a week, and is said in a way like he is trying to put a lot of the blame for our problems on me. Is that the "fog" that everyone keeps talking about? Also, as frustrated and rejected that I feel about the lack of lovemaking in our marraige, at least there has been some progress with him showing me affection. When we first moved back in together, he would sleep on top of the covers, fully clothed. Now he gets in to bed, holding me and cuddling me. He's just very careful to not let it turn into anything sexual. He did kiss me this morning before work and told me he loves me about three times, which is huge progress, because he ususally only says I love you in response to me saying it first. I think him finally getting back to work is a big boost to his self esteem, even though it's not the greatest job, at least they didn't do a background check! So is this lack of desire just from the guilt and withdrawel symptoms? I'm reading all the MB material and trying to understand but maybe you could help me sort it out a little. It's so overwhelming, ya know?

sutherlandgirl,

I think the reason you got so many people telling you to get out is because serial philanderers rarely ever change. They don't seem to follow the pattern of a typical wayward spouse. It's something bigger then being in a fog. I'm afraid you may be in denial & he may be leading you to believe you are in recovery when you are really in a false recovery. He may be hiding things better now. Just make sure you know this is a possibility. Also, the man you see in your marriage is who he really is - the friend you had held back his true self so you didn't really know him all these years, I suspect.

What I suggest you do is start taking care of yourself. You mentioned being molested & being in a domestic abuse situation with your previous husband (which has me wondering how 2 of your kids could be there then?). This likely means you are very prone to others having control over you & your being passive & clearly wanting to excuse their behavior & take the blame for it (it's obvious in your posts). You need to stand up for yourself & work on your self-esteem. Quit taking responsibility for other's negative actions. You did nothing wrong by calling the police when your husband is getting out of control. IF he cannot get a job because he cannot hold his temper with his new, pregnant wife, then that is his problem, not yours. It sounds like he's pretty good & blaming you for all HIS problems. And your pretty good at accepting the blame for it when none of it is your fault.

Everything you are saying I've heard over & over from my mom - making excuses for the man she is with & taking responsibility for his actions. I can imagine that you are going to have a hard time listening to the advice here, because you want to have people give you hope about a relationship that may be hopeless. I suspect too that you are downplaying his anger when he called the police. My mom does this one too - downplaying their behavior so other's don't think they are too bad & reject them.

I also will tell you that I don't believe his relationships with other women were only chat over the internet. Hunting & time while you were at work gives him plenty of time to get together with these women. You need to investigate this further, because if you are not having sex, I would guess there is more to it then guilt over hurting you. My husband has alot of guilt over what he did to me AND we have had lots of sex in the meantime.

I know a guy who is very similar to this. He seems so nice & friendly. He is married with 3 children. He used to go out "storm chasing" to cheat. When his wife discovered that he was cheating (internet - he would meet strangers for sex, etc. so there were TONS of other women), she planned to leave him & divorce him. Then, he went into "great husband" mode to win her back telling her all the same stuff your husband is telling you now. But, he never changed this behavior of cheating. His wife is still hoping he will change. How many STD's do you think he's going to give her? How many babies does he have out there? What kind of lesson are her children learning from this?

You need to investigate & have a plan of action in place. You need to know what you are really dealing with here because you cannot believe his words. You may need to hire a PI for this. You need to understand that he may not feel guilt or remorse as a serial philanderer in which the MB plans may not work for him.

I know this isn't what you want to hear because you seem to make to make this work no matter the cost (and to live in denial). But, you need to think about that cost. My mom cost my sister "everything" because she would not leave her 2nd husband. He was a bully, angry, screaming, demeaning & this behavior has affected my sister so deeply, I see no recovery from it. Her entire life is so screwed up because of it. I remember when my sister was little, she was so gleeful at everything - one of those happy kids who just enjoy life no matter what. He stole her joy & she's never found it since.

I know what you are talking about with the effect this could also have on the kids. But he really has been good for my oldest daughter, she has ADHD and drove her dad nuts. He was the demeaning, screaming bully, and now with my current husband, finally she has someone who understands her bubbly spontanaity. As for my two children who live with their dad, he is my second husband. He was very emotionally abusive to all of us, (especially me and my oldest daughter who wasn't biologically his) but it was my first husband who was physically abusive.

Anyways, so why is it so very hard for me to agree with so many people that this is such a bad guy that I'm married to now? I know sometimes things are clearer when you're on the outside looking in. But do you think that maybe it's just that so much of my life has been truly horrible, that this seems better just because it's only kind of horrible?

As far as the sex, we were still having sex frequently while he was doing the internet chatting. There was a difference although, it didnt' seem as intimate. Only since we've gotten back together a month ago has there been no sex. And I haven't worked nor has he been hunting since then. That was all while I was either still in the dark or while I wasn't living with him. We've been together practically the whole time, with me timing the few exceptions, and him returning every time much faster than I expected.

Oh, I don't know... am I just continuing to make excuses? I would really like some input from some of the guys out there who have cheated on their wives about whether the guilt made it hard for them to make love to their wives for awhile after the affair.

I really do appreciate everyone's input... truly

You sound so very similar to my mother. What I can tell you about her is she is kind, loving, generous, but she is not cheerful in her daily life. I think she tries to hold her head up, but is never truly happy. What I lived through as a child was an abusive father, then an abusive step-father (both verbally & emotionally). When I was in college I came home for the holidays to find my sister isolated (living in her room basically & not socializing with the family at all) and the tension so high you could cut it with a knife. I said "mom, what are you doing here - this is awful". They later separated, then got back together & went to counseling (only he was faking his improvements while he took out his anger on my sister when my mom wasn't around - which was actually worse). After about 8 mo. of this, my sister moved in with me (at age 16). It was then that my mom realized he didn't care about my mom at all because he was glad her children were gone. What is the point of this story? Well, I wanted my mom to be happy but what did she do. She went out & found another guy just like the one she left. She was repeating this a 3rd time. I couldn't believe it. Now, she's been together with this guy as long as the other two & she just doesn't see us much anymore (because it is not a pleasant place to go to visit and he's very controlling about where she is & what she is doing). My point is that if you have picked men in the past that were abusive (emotionally or physically), you may be following a pattern of behavior which leads you right back to the same type of guy. Obviously, there will be differences between how the abuse happens, but it's the same pattern. If you don't want to live the rest of your life miserably, then I HIGHLY suggest you focus on yourself. Figure out your behaviors (love busters, passive aggressive, conflict avoider, etc) and see what you can work on to improve yourself. Like most people will tell you here is that you can only change yourself, so if you want to have a better, happier life & show your kids how a strong mom should be, then look into what you can change about yourself.

I still think you need to investigate him & what may or may not have happened with other women. He may not be cheating now, but be careful because as you ease back into some sense of normalcy, it may start up again. I don't know what to say about the no sex - something isn't right about it though.

I think I sound like my mom too. I also agree something is wrong there with him having no desire for sex. Still hoping for a guy's input.

I just found this info on a therapy site... do you think there is anything to it?

We sometimes have the idea that for men, the sexual experience is detached from what is going on inside. In reality, a man's emotions can have a huge impact on his sexual desire. If he feels emotionally distant from his wife, and especially if he feels like a failure in any way, it can lead to a lack of confidence and therefore a lack of interest in sex. For a man, sexual performance is very much tied to ego, so if he is not feeling good about himself it will definitely show up in his approach to sexual intimacy with his wife.

Donalyn: As women, we know that our sexual appetite is diminished when we do not feel connected to our husbands, or if there is unresolved anger between us. But we forget that our husband's sex drive can also suffer for these same reasons. Likewise, if a man is overworked or under a lot of stress, whether inside or outside the home, sexual interest may start to take a back seat.

SG,

Yes what you just posted sounds about right.

I'm still not used to these abbreviations.. are you the husband who has a wife who had an affair? And you think that it is a possibility that his distance is due to the anger and hurt that is still between us? Thank you so much for replying...

Yes that would be me. Attitudes and pressure make a big difference as well as anger and hurt. A positive attitude and showing that you really want him could make all the difference in the world. Men are really simple, but when a woman starts screwing with their heads it causes a lot of things to go wrong. When a guy feels like he has lost confidence in his abilities, or his W has been with another man, or the guilt of being with another woman, causes ego to go down the tubes as well as some abilities that never were in question before. Having said that he may be unsure of his feelings, afraid he won't be able to perform, afraid of the images he might get during and after and his reaction to those images and feelings. All this adds up to a lot of stress and pressure, it turns into a viscious cycle and performance may stop altogether.

Just something to think about and my .02

Thank you so much for your input!!! I understand where all the ladies are coming from in their advice, as far as, if he's not getting it from me, he must be from somewhere else. BUT.. I do know him very well, his moods, his body language, and I ALWAYS had a gut feeling when he has told me an untruth in the past. And yet now, I don't have that feeling at all, in spite of being way more paranoid and suspicious than I've ever been in my life. I always thought that men would take sex anywhere, anytime, never considering that emotions can affect their levels of desire too. This has been very helpful to hear your ideas. I'm thinking that part of it is exactly what he is saying it is, anger at me for embarrassing him by calling 911, (he was starting a new job for the local police dept the next week, needless to say they changed their mind about hiring him), feeling like a failure in not providing financially as well as he'd like and guilt over how much it hurt me for him to talk to those women on that internet dating site. I think that you may be on to something though about memories or pictures in his mind of the OW, I hadn't thought of that. I really dont' think he has had a PA since we've been married but think that there may have been 2 while we were engaged. He swears over and over that he hasn't touched another woman since we've committed to each other and absolutely no bells go off about this. But then when I press him for a clarification about when he considers us committed, he hemhaws around. I thought it was several months into dating each other, yet I know he slept with another woman a month before he proposed. So I asked, did you consider us committed when we were engaged, or when we were married. He finally said engaged but there were huge red flags everywhere with this comment. So I'm continuing to try and trust my gut, realizing it hasn't been wrong yet, and try to analize when I felt him start to pull away emotionally and when that gut feeling tried to tell me something wasn't right. I've narrowed it down to 2 women, one he worked with that gave me weird vibes when I met her. He talked about her quite a bit, but then she mysteriously quit her job the day before we got married. Then another one is a friend of my sister, that she saw chatting late at night at a bar with my fiance, about a month before our wedding. (I was working late) That was about when our sex life started to become less intimate. He also started to become insanely jealous around this time. Do you think that there is anything to that saying about if they accuse you of stuff it's because they are actually the guilty ones? Well, thanks again for replying and good luck to you too, in your situation. Don't give up, ok? Believe me, I know it's hard!!

I'm not giving up, the kids and I are going to OKC for Christmas and she is finally retiring from the AF around 25 Jan and coming home. I truly believe that if all is well and all of the suddeen you are being accused and you have done nothing, then the accuser has probably done something. When I was in the AF I saw it all the time.

Please keep one thing in mind, I mention this because I have a hard time with it, the Policy of Radical Honesty (PORH), if your S tells you something, no matter how painful, you must always try to thank them for their honest and NOT LB. This will encourage more total honesty instead of discouraging it. I still have problems with this, but I think I'm getting better at it.

Good Luck and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Chuck

Hi, sutherlandgirl.

You mentioned that your wedding was perfect. I take it that appearances are very important to you.

You have married a user/player. Unless he has some kind of conversional religious experience, and actually demonstrably changes his life, he is destined to continue the path he is on. It isn't your fault, and you can't fix him.

There is one 'but', however; if you choose to stay with this abusive man now that you know what he is, then you are choosing to be a victim. That will be your fault. You will also be choosing to subject your children to him.

Please get away and get your children in a safe place.

All the best,
Gimble

When I say our wedding was "perfect" I mean perfectly how we wanted it. Simple, unpretentious, beautiful and fun. We had all 6 kids stand up with us, some wearing flip flops with their vaguely matching hippyish outfits. We wrote our own vows, and included the kids in the ceremony. Afterwards, we changed clothes, had BBQ, played horseshoes, and roasted marshmallows around a bonfire.

As far as the other things you said, I've been thinking about it a lot. The words "you married a user/player" keep running through my head. We are going to counseling, with some good results. But then if he is beyond any hope of changing and is irreversibly abusive, what's the point. I don't know, how do you make that determination? Still lost I guess, or maybe just blind.