My original story is posted here.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2845719

Over the past 2 weeks, things have been pretty good. We had a lot of honest talks about what we both want/need. I thought we reached a point where we both understood that it may or may not work out, but that we'll never know unless we are honest about everything with each other. We admitted a lot of things that have never been spoken before and we cried together. I didn't think we were re-commiting to each other ... I just thought we were trying to heal some of the hurt. And we both acknowledged that this is just a very bad time to split for practical matters. Although he said he was still very confused, he began to move away from being SO insistant that he absolutely does not want to be married. He told me he loved me several times and that he was trying.

Wed. night he runs an open mic at a bar. He came home (on time) and woke me up to talk. Both OW were there. Our agreement is that if either of them try to contact him he will tell he ASAP. OW#1 who we know is crazy ... well, whatever about her. She tried to talk to him, he walked away. She called his phone after he left and he didn't answer. He talked to OW#2 briefly. He never specfically asked her not to contact him. She hasn't been an issue and neither of us felt any need to push it, she seemed sane enough to understand. She asked how we were doing. He told her we are in counseling together and told her that he realizes now that I am a terrific person and not the monster he made me out to be. She didn't talk to him the rest of the night. But, the next day we saw that she had called his phone after he got home and had already turned it off. No message. Yesterday he sent her an email (of his own idea and free will) that said "Out of respect for my wife, I would really appreciate it if you didn't come to my performances or call me anymore. It makes it harder for her to trust me while I am out and we are working to rebuild that together. Thanks"

This morning we get a response ... it was addressed to both of us. Basically she said we are pathetic and the stupidest relationship she'd ever seen. How dare we tell he what to do, he always pursued (not entirely true, I've read her emails, but not the point either). She said I am simply too scared and insecure to ever let him out of our patetic relationship because all I want is a provider and he is an idiot for letting me manipulate him into staying. That was the message, in a nutshell.


And then everything spiraled downward.

He read it. I read it. He got weird. Started crying. He said "The things she said about you are not true. But she is right. I can't do this. I'm always going to lie, I am always going to cheat, I am always going to be miserble. I need to leave." I said fine, go. I'm not going to stop you. He had to work and left for the morning.

While he was gone I wrote to him. I told him I don't care if he doesn't want to be married but that I think its crappy of him to just pack up and leave at this particular moment. Our children are already going to have a huge adjustment with the new baby and losing their family unit at the same time is a lot to put on 2 little kids. I said I think its selfish to leave me here alone with 3 kids to sort out newborn stuff, being up all night and still having to take care of homework, basketball practice, etc. I don't care if he sleeps on the couch, I don't care if he doesn't want to work on things. But I think he's wrong to just get up and go now. That is one of the main reasons we agreed to a 6 month stay.

He came home in the afternoon, read what I wrote and we ended up in an argument. Nothing productive was said. Basically he just yelled that he didn't want anyone telling him what to do ... he didn't care if OW#2 thinks hes an idiot, if I think he is an jerk or if the counselor thinks he should stay for now. He can't set boundries and figure out what he really wants and still be here and have to look at me everyday. There will always be stuff going on, it will never be a good time so he might as well just leave now. And then he left and did not say good-bye to me or the kids. He had to work late tonight. He called after he was already late and aplogized for not calling sooner but said he was staying at a friends. I just said ok. I checked his phone log on-line and there were about 10 strange calls but I won't know exactly who they are and if they were incoming or outgoing until I get a chance to check his actual phone.

So ... everything kinda sucks again. I am considering talking to his mom and dad. I know they love me, I know they love the kids, BUT he is their son. They know nothing. I just want to let them know what is happening and ask them if I can depend on them for help with the kids so I am not completely alone in this. I am going to need some sort of help, but I don't know where to turn to get it. I only have about 5+ weeks before I could give birth and I am really scared of facing it all alone. I am tired.

I want to throw a fit! I want to freak out and tell him to STOP all the crap but I know it won't be helpful. It is so hard for me to be strong and not needy because I feel so vulnerable. Thinking about deciding whether or not to allow him at the birth sends me into shakes. My 2yo is sick and I'm mad at him for not being attentive to all that. I just wished we mattered.

Stillbreathing,

I am so sorry about all you are going through. The only helpful advice I can offer you is to take care of you. Try to find peace of mind. Get as much assistance from friends and family as you need. Just concentrate on you, not on WH or the A, just you and your children. Once you are whole again you can try to help your marriage and your WH if you want to. Right now you need all your strength for yourself and your new baby. Try not to let your feelings interfere with your thinking and make the decisions that are going to be less harmful for your physical and mental health. Keep posting. I am not the best person to be giving you advice about your marriage situation. So I won't.

He is such a confusing and confused man. He came home about a 1/2 hour after he called last night. He got up this morning and took ds to b-ball practice.

Lealas, thank you for your support. I am trying really hard to be strong for me.

Stillbreathing - I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I hope you are taking care of yourself. I see you were posting very late last night.

Don't give up hope. So far we have had good luck with the husband's that were wandering during pregnancy. They all seemed to get it together again.

Hang in there.

stillbreathing,

When I was feeling lost, I kept telling myself:

"Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet
come. We have only today. Let us begin."

--Mother Teresa

somehow it helped me. Your H is confused, but you can't be. You have to be strong for your kids, they need a stable parent. Your WH may or may not find his way, but you have to believe that you will. With or without him, you will be fine. It will be hard, it will take time, but you will be fine. You will learn about human nature, you will became stronger, and you will know yourself better. And one day you will be in a better place in your life. You will never be alone because you have your children with you. If you make the right decisions, you will have no regrets in the future. Set boundaries and stick to them, for your own sake, so you can keep a healthy self esteem. Please don't lose yourself to keep him, that price is too high. Hugs.

still, I don't think your WH is as confused as you might think. Let's look at what really happened:

***Although he said he was still very confused, he began to move away from being SO insistant that he absolutely does not want to be married. He told me he loved me several times and that he was trying.***

Translation: He told you a bunch of stuff that he knew you wanted to hear in order to get you off his back. Anytime a WS says "I'm confused," that means, "I want to keep BOTH women for as long as I can manage it."

***Wed. night he runs an open mic at a bar. He came home (on time) and woke me up to talk. Both OW were there. Our agreement is that if either of them try to contact him he will tell he ASAP. OW#1 who we know is crazy ... well, whatever about her. She tried to talk to him, he walked away. She called his phone after he left and he didn't answer. He talked to OW#2 briefly. He never specfically asked her not to contact him. She hasn't been an issue and neither of us felt any need to push it, she seemed sane enough to understand. She asked how we were doing. He told her we are in counseling together and told her that he realizes now that I am a terrific person and not the monster he made me out to be. She didn't talk to him the rest of the night. But, the next day we saw that she had called his phone after he got home and had already turned it off. No message.***

All of this is hearsay on your part. You are going solely by what he is telling you. You have no way of knowing whether any of it is true or not.

Some WS will tell you about encounters like this in the hopes that either you will force him off the fence and into her arms by being disgusted enough to throw him out, or just to reassure themselves that you really do still care enough to get very very upset about such an encounter.

***Yesterday he sent her an email (of his own idea and free will) that said "Out of respect for my wife, I would really appreciate it if you didn't come to my performances or call me anymore. It makes it harder for her to trust me while I am out and we are working to rebuild that together. Thanks"***

Well, okay . . . this was probably just a crumb to placate you, now that he had been reassured you would still stay around even after he said he saw both his OWs at the club the night before. He can always explain to the OW that he just sent it to get you off his back. Oldest trick in the book. Every OW understands that one.

***This morning we get a response ... it was addressed to both of us. Basically she said we are pathetic and the stupidest relationship she'd ever seen. How dare we tell he what to do, he always pursued (not entirely true, I've read her emails, but not the point either). She said I am simply too scared and insecure to ever let him out of our patetic relationship because all I want is a provider and he is an idiot for letting me manipulate him into staying. That was the message, in a nutshell.

And then everything spiraled downward.***

Oops! Monkey wrench in the works. You weren't supposed to see her response.

***He read it. I read it. He got weird. Started crying. He said "The things she said about you are not true. But she is right. I can't do this. I'm always going to lie, I am always going to cheat, I am always going to be miserble. I need to leave." I said fine, go. I'm not going to stop you. He had to work and left for the morning.***

Translation: "Well, I got caught again. Will you please throw me out into her arms so I can blame YOU for our marriage ending instead of the blame being on me?"

***So ... everything kinda sucks again. I am considering talking to his mom and dad. I know they love me, I know they love the kids, BUT he is their son. They know nothing. I just want to let them know what is happening and ask them if I can depend on them for help with the kids so I am not completely alone in this. I am going to need some sort of help, but I don't know where to turn to get it. I only have about 5+ weeks before I could give birth and I am really scared of facing it all alone. I am tired. ***

You absolutely should expose this to his parents. And there was a lengthy thread here not to long ago where most posters agreed that an H belongs in the delivery room but a WH does not.

***I want to throw a fit! I want to freak out and tell him to STOP all the crap but I know it won't be helpful. It is so hard for me to be strong and not needy because I feel so vulnerable. Thinking about deciding whether or not to allow him at the birth sends me into shakes. My 2yo is sick and I'm mad at him for not being attentive to all that. I just wished we mattered.***

Nothing matters to a WS but themselves. It's me, me, me all the time.

***He is such a confusing and confused man. He came home about a 1/2 hour after he called last night. He got up this morning and took ds to b-ball practice.***

Translation: Okay, the coast is clear! I got busted but threw a fit and got my wife off my back again, and then went off and told the OW whatever she wanted to hear. I've still got both of them and things are back to normal now. Whew!

Get your secondary support system in place and realize you cannot count on a WS. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I think your WH is a player and a Freeloader and knows exactly what he is doing. Don't let him fool you.
Mulan

Stillbreathing...

I really don't know what to say....but just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you....you are very strong to be dealing with this..

I agree with the poster above...just focus on you! Really a M cannot be saved in a few weeks, so there really is no rush for that....just focus on you and what works for your strength and keep healthy....

Normally, I say do Plan A, but seriously in your situation, I say focus on you!

{{{{{{{{stillbreathing}}}}}}}}}

Daisy

Mulan, I appreciate your perspective but at this point I really don't think that his struggle is with continuing the other relationships. He is confused whether or not he wants ANY relationship, including our marriage. He is not confused about wanting the relationships with these other women, they are done - I do have lots of ways to know this is true and I am not simply going by his word. I don't trust him, that is for sure. He has done all the "right" things (MC, IC, respecting my boundries and needs, etc.), and has had no problems with NC. This was the first incidence and he was very open about it. I was supposed to see her email response ... it was addressed to both of us and he called me into the room to read it when he got it.

I do completely agree with this:

**Will you please throw me out so I can blame YOU for our marriage ending instead of the blame being on me?"**

He tries to pull this all the time! Its a very OLD game.

I think the letter from the OW#2 was a trigger because really, everything she said were things that I have heard out of him mouth before. He was hearing himself and it freaked him out. His walls shoot up and when that happens all his inner conflict and shame gets turned around to blame, mostly onto me.

white_daisy, thanks for the support.

Still,

I had lost track of you and your posts. I am sorry H has continued his emotional wanderings. I had hoped he would honor his 6 month comittment and be of some support rather than a constant source of stress during the pregnancy.

I'm not sure I agree with everybody else's view on his being a player, cake-eater etc. I still think he is battling himself as to what kind of person he wants to be. He knows what is right and wrong, he just hasn't made the decision which way he wants to go. I wonder how much his addiction to the ganja is muddying up his thought process. Maybe clearing that up first would be more appropriate and productive. No one I have known that used on a regular basis ever made a serious comittment stick either. They seem to stumble through life in an endless struggle just to make ends meet and a string of broken relationships.

Hang in there and take care of you first. By all means recruit all the help you can and be proactive for yourself. That baby deserves the best you can do for yourself.

Have you seen the OBY/GYN yet? Get youself some professional help and cut yourself some slack. You have done everything right here, so take some comfort from that and focus on a healthy pregnancy.

Hi duk!

I am doing fine.

Last night I went and had dinner with a mutual friend. We had a long talk about wh. It felt good to hear the perspectives of someone who cares about us both.

This morning we were supposed to have therapy together but he decided to take the week off. He asked me if it was ok, I told him to please stop asking for my permission. It was about the 4th time he asked my permission to make a decision since Friday happened. He needs to make these decisions on his own and I won't be held accountable and blamed for his actions anymore. I have been clear about what my boundries, expectations, limit and needs are right now. He needs to chose for himself whether or not to honor that. He said he really just wanted to take this week off, and promised he would get back on it next week. I said ok. It was an interesting session though and I was kinda glad to be alone. She laughed and said she is having a really hard time figuring out what direction to go with me (and us) because I am just too much of a buddhist. We can't really go into couples work, because we would both need to be on the same page, and we are not. Yet strictly individual therapy does not seem appropriate either. He had mentioned that he thinks it would be beneficial to approach it as primarily individual therapy for him, with me on the side lines watching and calling him on his sh*t when I needs to. She agrees that that could work, but it kind of makes me nervous that I am being put in a position to be blamed some more. I don't know ... we'll see how next week goes.

When I got home he asked me how it was, asked if there was anything I wanted to talk about and I said no. He said he realizes he has been very distant over the weekend and he wants to find a time soon where we can sit and talk. I said ok. He went about his business and I went about mine. Later in the day he came up to me and asked me if I want to go to his performance on Friday ... this is a HUGE issue, even long before any of this stuff came out. He never invites me of his own will. The only times I ever go to his shows are when I say that I want to go. He never says "I really want you to be there with me." I was taken off gaurd so much but tried to be cool. I just looked at him and said "Are you inviting me?" and he said "Yes. I am inviting you ... if you want to come .. I would be happy to have you there." I said I don't know and we'll see how the week goes.

As I thought about things and processed it a bit, I realized that in between the yelling and blaming on Friday I heard him saying that he needs space and boundries, and he wants my help to try to figure out what that looks like. I hope that he can find a better way to express the things he wants/needs without yelling, etc. so that I don't have to look for the hidden messages and deciefer what he is trying to tell me. It is like dealing with a toddler who can't quite articulate what they need and so they throw a tantrum. I am going to really focus on NOT engaging ... not yelling back and not trying to rationally get through to him when he is being irrational. I only end up feeling hurt when I do that and it is not productive for anyone. It is hard sometimes though because you want to defend yourself when someone is attacking you. I need to walk away. I need to tell him I won't engage. I need to keep myself safe.

So ... that is where I am. I'm am trying really hard to just live today. I can't change the past, I can't make the future get here any faster ... just one day at a time. Today I am ok.


PS. duk, I see a midwife for my prenatal care. My pregnancy and well-being are fine.

Oh and he hardly smokes at all anymore. Now that his sugar mama is gone he can't afford it.

Still,

I am glad to hear you are healthy and it sounds like you are feisty too. Both good things to hear! I will keep checking in on you so take care of yourself first and foremost and have a great day tomorrow.