Jen, I don't know what to do about that either. I guess H and I need to discuss this again. I just don't know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I vote he move out the week after Thanksgiving ...

Turkey jokes coming to mind ... better keep my mouth shut <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Nooooo. This is not something you need to discuss with your H. This is not something you have to agree on. This is not a POJA.

You husband has chosen his position in the marriage. He has drawn his boundary. He will not make you, the children or the marriage his priority. His boundary keeps you on a chain, but at a distance.

So.....him moving out is your boundary and when he moves out is YOUR decision to make.

It would probably be a big bite of reality for your husband to NOT have a warm home with kids around the tree on Christmas morning. I know it would be hard on you, but imagine this for him. If there is any thread of hope for the marriage, and I don't know if there is, he needs a taste of what reality is going to be.

I think the sooner he is out the better.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good point Susan.

Do you know what this honestly reminds me of?

When I was involved in my A, I knew what I should do and what needed to be done. I wanted to end it. But I did not have the strength to end it.

So, I kept discussing it with the OM...all the reasons we should not be doing what we were doing....the guilt I felt, the pain, our spouses, our kids, our families,....

I could go on and on about all the reasons we should make a change and end the affair, and sometimes the OM would even agree with me.

Not to compare your marriage with an affair, but

When was the change made? When I finally decided it was time. That I had to have my life back. When I made the decision and I DID IT.

Discussing with your husband that he needs to move out will get you no here. He will probably agree and say "but I don't have anywhere to go right now." Where he goes is not your problem, it is his. I'm sure he can go stay with that friend he works with every weekend.

You will have to just decide and DO IT.

Susan

Yes, I know you are right. He has had plenty of time to find a place, it is not my problem. He can sleep on somebody's couch if he has to. I bet OW would LOVE to put him up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, my step father (whom WH works for)called my cell to see who all the phones calls have been to and from because WH used his work phone to conduct his A in the past. I understand employer being upset by the calls and I told him the calls will slow down because I am done "trying to work things out" with WH. For some reason this call upset me. I think it triggered me back to early March when I discovered all the calls between him and OW AND found out he attended OC's birth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Pep:Susan:
i agree!!!!! FF, you are keeping yourself in a very painful place. and then to have the move occur the day after xmas.

don't you see....

extreme stress up until xmas + extreme stress the day after xmas = not enjoying this season + bad bad memories of xmas in general especially for the kids!!!

I think it triggers you back to reality...of NOW...of what you are dealing with.

Hoping that with enough time things will change. I don't think things are going to change in your situation until something is forced.

Letting him continue like he is is not going to work. I think you know this and this reality is upsetting.

Susan

i'm sorry the phone call upset you {{{{FF}}}}

and remember, regarding STBX moving out - this is YOUR DECISION. if you do decide sooner is better, DON"T ASK HIM, TELL HIM!!!!

Yes, I think it does. I seem to need that continual splash of cold water on my face..thought I do not have any hope any more.

FF, personally, I'd get your WH out of there before Christmas. Why pretend to be a happy family when you aren't? It's going to be really hard to hold it together when you know it's the last time. Your kids will sense it, too.

My WH left our home in mid-December of last year. He moved into an apartment days before Christmas. My only regret is that I was "pressured" by WH, my inlaws, kids and our MC to let WH be around us for Christmas. However, it's water under the bridge now.

Get the jerk out of there and start new Christmas traditions for your new family. Last Christmas, the kids and I started a new tradition of having sushi on Christmas Eve. This year, we'll do other different things but combine things from the past. Give your children the comfort they need, in an atmosphere that isn't full of anxiety and emotions. I wouldn't just spring it on the kids either. Among other things, it could make them feel you are the bad guy.

GG, how did you handle things with your kids?

Let me ask you all this...DD is going to IL's with stbx for Turkey Day. DS and I are staying home. Would it be wrong to let her know this weekend what is going on and then send her off with her dad for the weekend?

What is the motive for telling her (at that time) what is going on?

What do you want to accomplish?

Are you thinking you will send her off with your H. and she will somehow talk him out of it? Since you couldn't do it, maybe she can?

I'm sure she knows what is going on. She's no dummy and she has overheard enough stuff.

Do not tell her anything until you are ready to follow through with your actions. Remember, mean what you say and say what you mean.

If you are not going to do anything until after Christmas, then don't make her worry until then (coz if you put it off until then who knows what may happen that will make after Christmas a bad time too...if you get my drift)

Susan

Faithfulfollower, I honestly feel like you get distracted from the big issue by all the other issues.

The issue is when you are going to have your husband move out.

Once you decide that, everything else will fall into place after that. Then you tell you daughter. Then you get about your life. Then you quit focusing on him.

Susan

No, I just don't want to hit her over the head with surprises. I am NOT hoping she will talk him out of it. That is why I am worried about sending her off without me. Some experts I read recommend telling the children the day before the S moves out.

No she is no dummy and she is very disappointed in his behavior toward all of us. He has let her down so much and I don't want to do the same.

Honestly, this is not about saving my M or talking him into staying. This is all about what will be best for my kids. I know I need to get him out, I just cannot for the life of me figure the best time to do so and minimize their hurt.

This is what my parents did to me and my siblings...they put a for sale sign up and told us you and you will be going with Dad and you and you will be going with mom. No warning, no nothing..just you lose your home, your intact family, your identity, and in my case my mom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Do you see why I am paralyzed over this??

Understandable, BUT, this is not the same. You are not splitting the siblings up, and saying that some go with him, and some stay with you.

Honestly, I think that if you wait until after Christmas your poor daughter will spend every single day until December 26 just waiting for the other shoe to drop. she KNOWS what is coming. She knows what he has been up to. and everyday, when she walks in the door, she wonders what she will find. Will he be there? Will you two be fighting? she knows that you won't tolerate his bad behavior any longer, so she wonders when he is finally going to move out.
The tension has got to be horrible right now.

I can not imagine that it would be any fun to go through a fake Christmas, where everyone is pretending that everything is ok. You will be just going through the motions, anxious to get it over with, and DD will sense that.

My first Christmas without WxH - I thought it would be sad, but it wasn't. Once we got him moved out of the house, and made it clear that he was not welcome to barge in whenver he felt like it, we all RELAXED a whole lot. I was able to play my Christian music CD's in the house (WxH didn't like my Christian music CD's , and was always watching TV so we couldn't play the stereo)
I was able to make food the boys and I liked - we invited friends over whenever we wanted to. It was great fun. On Christmas Eve we went to a candle light service (WxH did not like to go anywhere on Christmas Eve because of the crowds)

FF - I don't think you realize how much of a dark cloud you are living under right now. When you get him the heck out of there, you will cry for a couple of days, and then you will say "Hey! I think I will paint my bathroom pink, just because I can!"

You are still bleeding from an open wound. You need to get him out of there, and start the the healing process.

FF, separation and divorce are always hard on kids. We can only do what we can to make it a little bit better. We can honest and consistent and loving. We have to recognize that kids are really smart and intuitive but also have a hurting little person inside.

I told my kids about their dad's A before he moved out. D-day was early November. He lived in the house but floated in and out usually coming in very late. The kids thought he was working. My epiphany was when he wasn't home when we came back from Thanksgiving dinner with my family. He'd been there when we left in the early afternoon. DD was very hurt and said "I'm going to be so mad if Dad has to work on Christmas Eve." At that time, I knew that they had to know something of the truth.

My oldest son in college took it very hard. He has since requested that I never, ever tell him anything bad during finals week. My second son had suspected all along that his dad was in the midst of an affair. DS#2 was with me when I told DD. Our grief and pain hung heavy in the house. When WH finally came home 3 days later, I made him talk to the kids about it. He fed them the ever-popular "drifted apart" story and continued live at home.

For the next 3 weeks, the house was full of tension and anger and rampant emotions. We tried MC. The kids and I set up a Christmas tree and tried to get in the spirit of the holidays. Midmonth, WH left the house in a very bad way. When confronted with sneaking a phone call to OW after we'd gone as a family to a candlelight Christmas church service, he turned tail and ran off. Didn't even say goodbye to his children. He slept on somebody's (OW's) "couch" before renting an apartment days before Christmas. It was a really sucky period.

There were 2 good things:

First, my children found good support systems. We have a young woman friend whose mother ran off with an OM while she was in high school. This girl is really close to both DS#1 and DD. She spent hours on the phone to my son. She told DD that she slept by her cellphone and that DD should call her whenever she needed to. I can't tell you how much that meant to DD. I also notified DD's teacher that bad things were happening and she arranged for DD to talk with the school counselor. DS#2's GF comes from a divorced family. She was the only one of his friends that he's ever told and was a great comfort to him.

Second, once WH left, everybody still at home felt much calmer and safer emotionally. Having that giant source of tension, WH out-of-the-house relieved a lot of pressure. There wasn't the concern about where WH was or when he'd come home or what kind of mood he'd be in. We cooked what we wanted to. Watched every stupid holiday movie. Licked our wounds and clung to each other. We had a very nice Christmas and a quite nice New Years.

I'm glad I was honest with my kids. When their dad left, they were not without resources. We made allowances for each other. We became very tight. Only recently has DD started sleeping in her own bed instead of with me. (And she only does it if one of the dogs is with her.) We like to be with each other.

Get your STBXWH out of your house ASAP. Start your Christmas Holiday season with a free heart and a WH-purged home. Remember the story about the person with the 400lb gorilla in their back and how they didn't know how heavy it was until it finally jumped off? Trust me, you'll feel the same way.