Faithful follower,

I’m sorry for your pain… Recently I have read a book ”The atonement child” written by the Christian author - Francine Rivers. The book is about a lady (18-year old virgin) who has gotten pregnant after she was raped… She gave birth to the child but struggled with similar questions e.g. why God allowed this to happen; why He allow a child to be conceived from such an evil & devastating act etc.

This book is excellent and have a very deep religious and spiritual impact. Although this book is about a different situation than yours and also address the issue of abortion, I think this book may just help to give you some better understanding & insight about this issue you are struggling with.

It’s true that - while we are here on this earth - we may not have all the answers or understand why God allow certain things in life... I have my own issues about this too - please let me explain:

Me and my H have severe infertility problems and we long for a child of our own (we are 9 years married now). Recently my unmarried 24 year old brother had a child with his 20 year old GF… So far they don’t have plans for getting married and they can’t really provide for this child…but they are going to raise the child by themselves anyway. I also know my brother's GF had an abortion before she met my brother.

Isn’t it ironic that people who SO long for a child sometimes can’t have them and others who don’t, do have them? And sometimes people who can give a child all the love and care in the world can’t have them and the ones who do have children abuse them? I know God have a bigger plan and purpose behind everything but sometimes it’s SO difficult to accept and understand all of these things… And therefore I can have some understanding with what you are struggling with FF.

(((HUGS)))

Blessings,
Suzet

All I can say to people in your type of situation is that it's a great pity that the L&D nurses aren't allowed to choose who gets to conceive and who doesn't, and which women can give birth. We see so much of what you describe: the young teenage father having his 3rd or 4th child, each with a different child-woman who has been, or is being, treated for some sexually-transmitted disease; terrible (sometimes scary) family dynamics, or people from such dirt and squalor that it boggles the mind that this innocent newborn is going to be placed there, etc., etc. And all this while the "good" ones (like Neak, just as a for instance) have babies that die, or are born defective, or too early, or otherwise damaged, or we have parents who can't have babies at all while the less-than-desirables spit 'em out like watermelon seeds. All the L&D nurses I know have strong opinions about a lot of the stuff we see, and would change it if we had any power to do so. And the baby making activity in America, at least, would be getting some MAJOR changes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Sorry it can't come true, because the nurses are ready!

Faithful Follower - One of the consequences of adultery is sometimes the creation of a new life. It HAS far-reaching consequences on ALL who are touched by the infidelity. How one (the Faithful Spouse) reacts to it will depend on many factors, not the least of which is their belief in, and surrender to, God.

I will NOT try to deemphasize the emotional distress that an OC can cause. There have been MB members who got pregnant by an OM, and then reconciled with their husband and they raised the child as "their own." It is NOT easy. God has never said that a Christian's life would be "easy," only that He will use ALL circumstances in the lives of believers to work for good in their lives as they walk with Him and trust in Him. For those particularly difficult things we face, from adultery itself, to OC's, to any other difficult issue, God PROMISES that we DO NOT have to endure it and live with in in our own finite strength and resources. God tells us plainly that He gives us HIS supernatural power, unlimited and omnipotent, THROUGH Christ, to enable us to DO ALL THINGS.

Also, God tells us that He has known us from the beginning, from before our conception. That applies to ALL humans, regardless of HOW we were conceived. I don't see this as any different in the case of our own children, an OC conceived through adultery, or a child conceived through fornication that might be aborted because of the "selfishness of the mother" or some other reason. We are ALL "children of God."

It is, as with reconciliation following adultery, most often our OWN difficulty in dealing with the emotional onslaught that is the really HARD part. God KNOWS how hard these things are, and we are given the RIGHT to divorce if "dealing with it" becomes too hard for us or if the unfaithful spouse is unrepentant. God does this to protect the "Faithful Spouse" who is equally a "child of God" and "bride of Christ." The "bottom line" to remember is not that God will make everything "hunky dorry," but that He will use every situation to work out good in the life of the individual believer. Sometimes that is WITH our former wayward spouse and sometimes it's without them.

[color:"blue"]"I always thought children were blessings directly from God, but then when there is an OC wouldn't that mean that God is endorsing infidelity? Since I know God hates divorce and adultery is a sin...where does the OC come in? I need to some how let go of my rage toward OW and find forgiveness."[/color]

Children ARE a blessing from God. It is we humans who "corrupt" the blessing. Ask Abraham and Sarah.

God does NOT endorse adultery under any circumstances. Just like SEX is intended to be part of MARRIAGE, and marriage only, we humans refuse to obey God and fornicate and commit adultery to satisfy our own selfish desires. That a child can be produced through sex, married or unmarried, is a BIOLOGICAL function that God instilled in us to "be fruitful." But the 7th Commandment makes the original intent of God in the Garden of Eden explicitly clear...."thou shalt NOT...." is NOT a suggestion or open to any other interpretation.

[color:"blue"]"...where does the OC come in?"[/color]

I don't know. But here's something that might help you to think about the fact that WE don't always know the mind of God and what He might have purposed for any life....

Jesus Christ was an "Other Child" to Joseph. The major difference is that Mary committed no sin, but offered herself in humble obedience to God as a servant both to God and to all of mankind, regardless of what anyone else might think of her. Joseph WAS going to quietly put Mary away because He loved her (remember that at that time the penalty for infidelity was DEATH). God's "answer" to Joseph, and to Mary, was "Fear not..." God was, and is, "in control" even when we don't understand all the "why's" and "wherefores."

Who "creates" the problem(s)? Satan.
Who has the "answers" to the problem(s). God

There are so many Scripture references that bear on this issue. But here's just a couple that might help a little; "Love thine enemies," "Do good unto those who spitefully use you." "Jesus wept." FF, God KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS and promises to never leave us or forsake us...and then gives us His strength in Philippians 4:13 to be able to the seemingly "impossible" task before us.

[color:"blue"]"I want them to hurt over this as badly as I do. Not a very Christ like attitude is it? I am hanging on to my sanity by a very thin thread. I have trouble praying these days. I still feel God in my life but can't seem to embrace my faith. I am hoping for some help here. "[/color]


A perfectly NORMAL reaction. There is NOTHING wrong with Righteous Anger about sin and the consequences of that sin. What God tells is "be angry (righteous anger), but in your anger do not also sin." When you have trouble praying, know that the Holy Spirit intercedes for you with "groans" that are understandable to God. If God is "one thing," that "thing" is PATIENT. God "waits on us," knowing full well the troubles and difficulites we face. Why do you think that he comes in and makes his home with us, giving us his strength, wisdom, and security? It's because God knows we are NOT YET in a glofified and sinless body. We still struggle against our own "fallen flesh." We still live "In," even though not "of" a fallen world. He provides our ANCHOR in the storms of life and tells us that even if we think our faith is so small that it is no bigger than a "mustard seed," it is ENOUGH because HE provides..."THROUGH him who gives me strength" and FOR "him"(Jesus Christ).

Psalm 23 makes our "Hopelessness and helplessness" clear...and provides the unbreakable "very thin thread" that is all we need to help us through the dark valley and back into a full life with God, despite the circumstances in our lives...."Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...."

[color:"blue"]"I am hoping for some help here."[/color]

My hope is in the Lord.

Job 13:15
Psalm 25:3
Psalm 33:33
Psalm 33:42
Psalm 119:74
Psalm 130:5
Psalm 130:7
Psalm 134:5
Psalm 147:11
Jer 29:11
Romans 12:12
Romans 15:13
1 Cor 13:13
1 Tim 6:17
Hebrews 6:19
Hebrews 10:23

(((((faithful follower)))))

God bless

What a WONDERFUL post!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I read that several years ago. It IS excellent.

I love Francine Rivers. My first book to read by this author was Scarlet Thread. Also a very good book you may want to read for thought provoking enjoyment.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Susan,

I also love Francine Rivers. The first book I read from her was "Redeeming Love". This book had me in tears and for days thereafter I couldn't get the story out of my mind. It was so, so beautiful and thought provoking. So far (except for the the Bible) the obove book is the best one I have ever read (it's based on the Bible book Hosea) and if you haven't yet read this book, you must get hold of it... It's a MUST read! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Dear faithful
I have thought about this point you asked for some time..its very vexing, very difficult, and sometimes very confusing for us humans to understand whys.

In recent months as I finally learned to cope with Peters death in a healthy way I asked our priest, a family friend and our ArchBishop one question WHY??

He held my hand and said "Have you ever thought that your little boy had one single purpose in all of creation? To simply be, to enable you to be a witness to life."

That gave me a strange comfort. It did not hurt any less, but it was no longer paralysing. Faith in God and eternal salvation is easy when your life is full & happy, its so hard when you have lost so much.

On children born outside of Marriage, my Church & our Pope is very firm. The Church says ...

As for children I firmly believe that God loves each person without reservation. God does not love children born within wedlock more than children born out of wedlock. We are all precious in God's eyes.

Jews, Christians and Muslims today believe that God holds individuals accountable for their actions.

Even though God extends neither reward nor punishment from one generation to another, humans often do.

Because most of the Old Testament gives no support to the idea of a life beyond this one, the Hebrew people thought that God was forced to reward or punish people completely in this life, with the possibility of extending either one to future generations. They thought God's "reach" was blocked by death.

Old Testament Hebrews would have said that Oscar Romero must have been sufficiently rewarded in this life and that Adolf Hitler must have been sufficiently punished here. We may well disagree with both of those assessments.

The idea of intergenerational punishment ran into a brick wall, so to speak, when the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 B.C. Many devout Jews interpreted this calamity as punishment for their nation's sins.

If they had kept thinking that punishment must be extended to future generations, however, their obeying God now would not matter because God must still punish them for their ancestors' sins. Something had to give!

Chapter 18 of the Prophet Ezekiel is very strong on the subject of individual accountability: "Only the one who sins shall die" (verses 3 and 20). A person's repentance now does make a difference. "Dry bones" can live again! (See Ezekiel 37:1-14.)

The concept of an afterlife, where some are rewarded and others are punished, developed among the Jewish people very slowly, only after the events of 587 B.C. There are some hints of it in the last of the biblical Wisdom writings to be completed.

Not all Jewish people in Jesus' day believed in a life after this one. The Sadducees did not (see Mark 12:18). Most Jewish people today believe that individual immortality occurs only through one's descendants and by remembering past good people.

Sometimes our language gets very twisted. In reality, there are no 'illegitimate' children — only unwed couples who become parents.
Some marry and succeed in providing a wholesome environment where their children can grow. Unfortunately, many others do not or cannot for various reasons.

If people insist on talking about a curse in these situations, they are describing human actions, not God's.
God does not curse even the most sinful of humanity, sadly that is entirely a human action.

On your anger, that is very natural and I have known this so well especially against God. Anger just doesn't go away, maybe God made us this way too?
Life isn't easy. For one thing, the daily struggle between good and evil is real. To help us cope, Jesus taught us a brief prayer. The Our Father assumes that temptation is part of life and that dependence on God is the remedy. We ask God to "forgive our trespasses," "lead us not into temptation" and "deliver us from evil." In struggling, we are never alone.
Joseph was Isaac's youngest and favorite son. For that, his jealous brothers first plotted to kill him, then sold him as a slave. Years later, when famine engulfed the land, Joseph had risen to a position of power. Filled with compassion, he not only forgave his brothers, but saved their lives.

What if God were to judge, forgive and love us exactly as we judge, forgive and love others (and not a bit more)? Surely, it would not be enough for us. Yet that troubling thought is what Jesus asks his disciples, his followers, to ponder. Since it is God's enormous love we have received, it is God's love we are to reflect in our world.

We sometimes say "the sky's the limit" when we mean there is no limit at all. That expression might answer the question, How much do we owe to God? If we could begin to grasp the size of the personal debt we owe, we might be able to forgive others the little they owe us by comparison.
But its so hard, we are only human, but we can aspire to be more. Even if we fail at first, second, third, etc times.

with love


AW

{{Suzet}} I had no idea of your struggles. How painful for you. Yes, it is hard to understand how drug addicted women can have children and those who long for them cannot sometimes. My H's OW has had 2 failed marriages and can't even handle having custody of all of her kids yet she gets blessed with the healthy baby boy I so wanted. I will look up the book, thank you.

FH, I have tears rolling down my face right now. What a beautiful post. I never thought of the position Joseph was in raising a child not his "own". Thank you for pointing out His patience and love for me.

AW, what a wonderful and thought provoking post. Thank you. The story of Joseph is my favorite old testament story.

Ah..