Luckily, I have sworn off porn many months ago due to it hurting my wife's feelings. And I have been sucessful. So it really shouldn't be a problem in the future.

But I will ponder your thoughts. A little bit, it reminds me of alcohol though. Just because there is the potential of misuse doesn't necessarily mean that every person who drinks will become an alcoholic. People who see themselves developing a problem with it do have the ability to pull back and quit. I think the same could apply to porn if one choose that route. Or there is the method you mention which is to stay away from alcohol and porn due to the possibility that it could get out of hand. Your approach is a safe one but not necessarily the only one. But I will think it over.

I think that I agree that most women who don't understand why a guy would use porn are threatened by it. I think that I must be a very lucky guy that my W is so supportive, and that she is not threatened by it. She even occasionally wants to view it with me; although it is not the centerpiece of our lovemaking, we do view it together 2 or 3 times a year prior to lovemaking.

My love for her because of her acceptance of me is much greater. And no, I don't spend much time or money on it. And I don't go onto chat rooms or talk lines or strip clubs, all of which I'd consider as unhealthy to our relationship. Never had the inclination to do so. Even if I'd wanted to go to strip clubs, and even if she would never find out about it, I'd know about it; and I could not do that to her.

I'd just have SSC, the original poster, have a long talk with her H about it. Either he'd have to be cool with not using it, or she'd be cool with him using it. She'll either have to learn to live it, or him learn without it. But him sneaking about it is in my book as very unacceptable situation, and toxic to their R.

Hey AverageGuy,

I thought it was very interesting in your original post to ssp that you said her husband would be "miserable" if she made him give up porn. Wow. That's a pretty strong emotion -- misery -- for something that's not supposed to be a very big deal don't you think?

Also, take it from someone who knows, it can start out as a once-in-awhile thing and slowly, incidiously become more and more of a problem. Because it happens gradually -- like a lot of drug addictions -- you don't see it creeping up on you until it becomes a crisis.

Also guys, if your wives feelings are less important to you than your porn "hobbies" -- no matter how irrational you think those feelings are -- that, in itself, is a problem.

ssp -- allow me to repeat what I told you in my original post. Do not allow anyone to tell you it's no big deal. If it makes you unhappy, it is a big deal. And the fact that your husband was at one time a heavy user, then lied to you about using at all, is reason enough for concern. Have you read the article on this site about porn, by the way?

--SC

If the use of porn, or of anything, become insidious, then it goes from being a harmless activity to being a harmful activity. It is quite clear that this activity must have limits, be they place, time, money. Just as with any other activity. If SSC's H lets porn ruin his R with SSC, or ruin his life in other ways, then they have a problem.

I don't see a reason why SSC and her H can't discuss it and come together to some rational conclusion. Yes, maybe the best for the couple is for him to give it up. Or maybe she can learn to accept him. But if they can't come up with a rational agreement, and she insists on forbid him using porn and he insists on using it, then they have a problem.

I certainly agree. If W is totally against any activity that H undertakes, be it porn use or playing cards with friends or taking a job with weird hours, then it is the duty of H not to undertake such activities. Doing something that the marriage partner is totally against is a great way of screwing up a marriage.

OK, we can argue all night on whether pornography is dangerous or a drug, but let's wrap it up in the original posters views and her emotional needs.


Should he stop? Absolutely. Stop encouraging her to talk it out so she can be comfortable with him doing it.

"They instinctually all seem threatened by it."

The same way men would be "instinctually threatened" by their wives taking their clothes off for other men. It's the flip side of the same thing. If your wife did that, would you feel she was being faithful and respectful?

"Using" porn is selfish and unloving behavior. Don't put this back on women, as though *we* are the ones with the problem.

"Also guys, if your wives feelings are less important to you than your porn "hobbies" -- no matter how irrational you think those feelings are -- that, in itself, is a problem."

This is another great point and IMO it gets to the essence of why porn upsets women and girls. It goes beyond a lack of empathy; I feel it borders on outright hostility.

Average "guy," you would be more of a *man* if you didn't even ask your wife to be okay with you using porn. How does her being supportive of you looking at porn make you a better person or husband?

Porn use does matter because it has deeper implications about a guy's emotional competence and availability. Defending its use within a relationship just shows a lack of "getting it."

And this: "These strippers were objects for sexual entertainment, it's better that you don't know them and "invest" in them as a person."

This statement makes me shudder. I feel sorry for any woman who would devote her life to a guy who could objectify other human beings this way. Your wife sounds like a nice woman with abysmal judgment.

Guess what - strippers are someone's daughter, someone's sister, someone's mother. Since my breakup with my idiot ex-boyfriend, which happened over strip clubs, I have given lots of money to nonprofits that assist women transition out of the sex industry so that they can lead healthier, more HUMAN lives, because that is what they are - HUMANS. Often they are girls who have been sexually abused or raped, have drug and alcohol problems, etc. I could post a list of the websites for these organizations if you would like, so you can give a little something back to women that so far it sounds like you've only helped to exploit and dehumanize.

BC --

Preach it sistah!

"BC --

Preach it sistah!"

LOL. Thanks, Jaye. It's been nice encountering men who "get it."

Sorry if I went overboard, but I'm tired of the onus being placed on women, ie - either be cool with it, or you are controlling, jealous, nagging, insecure, uptight, etc. And in fairness to men, alot of those criticisms come from other women! I think quite honestly women with low standards are resentful and defensive b/c they know instinctively that what they are willing to put up with *isn't* very nice.

Best to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is NOT the same thing. It is ridiculous that you can even compare the two.

I do not think that wives should be taking off clothes for other men. I don't think that men should go to strip clubs or ogle naked women on stage.

Porn is simply pictures. It is not cheating with other women. There is no emotional attachment. There is no interaction between the model and the man, as there may be in a strip club.

Do you think that if a man goes to see a western that somehow he'll turn into a cowboy, or if he watches 3 Stooges that he want to get hit by a 2x4, or if he watches Bond films that somehow he'll be a debonair spy? No. It is just a fantasy. Don't insult a man's intelligence by insisting that he is not able to separate the two.

Look, should a man be threatened if he wife read a romantic novel, or watches a soppy love story on TV? Your analogy should be:
>>The same way men would be "instinctually threatened" by their wives reading romance novels.... It's the flip side of the same thing. If your wife did that, would you feel she was being faithful and respectful? <<

How would you feel about a man getting all upset about his wife enjoying a good romantic film?

Women tend to watch romantic films, men tend to watch porn. Deal with it.

Don't worry, I did not ask her for a permission to use porn. After dating a while, the subject came up, and we simply discussed it. I admitted to it, without any sense of shame or guilt. She is a wonderful woman and has more than accepted it. There was simply no reason for her to try to control this very personal part of my life.

However, if she'd be extremely upset, I would take her feelings into consideration, and would quit using it. It just makes sense. Continuing to do something that hurts the other person in a relationship is toxic to that relationship. And I think that if I were to become extremely upset that she enjoys romantic movies, then I am sure that she'd swear them off as well.

BC,
You did NOT go overboard. You cut straight to the heart of the matter. In fact, this part deserves an encore presentation:


BINGO!

--SC

But to answer your question: her acceptance of my activities makes me a better spouse, because I know that she is a supportive partner. Her acceptance of my activities makes me realize how wonderful of a person she is. And love her very much for it. And I am supportive of her activities. It makes for a stronger marriage.

Well let me re-write it a bit, and see what you think:

>>Women "using" romantic novels and films is selfish and unloving behavior. ...

Women reading romantic novels or watching romantic films does matter because it has deeper implications about a woman's emotional competence and availability. Defending its use within a relationship just shows a lack of "getting it." <<

What do you think?

That's fine and good, and I agree with you. But the question of SSC was not about strip clubs, but about porn use: SSP's partner was looking at porn on the Internet.

Yes, there is a difference.

Okay Average,

You say:

To follow your reasoning, porn is okay because there's no physical or emotional contact, right? Soooo.... it would be okay if your wife posed for sexually explicit photos as long as she wasn't in the physical proximity of the men looking at those photos? As long as she didn't have any interaction with them? As long as there was no emotional attachment to them? As long as it was "just" pictures?

As BC has pointed out, those pictures are not computer generaged. They are not, as you suggest, simply fantasies. They are pictures and video of REAL HUMAN BEINGS. Whether or not YOU have any attachment to them, they are still people.

Your arrogance is disturbing!

--SC

Oh, excuse me, BC was referring to strippers. But the same can -- AND SHOULD -- be said about people who pose for pornographic pictures or act in x-rated movies!!!!

"Porn is simply pictures."

Okay, then let me be more specific: how would you feel if your wife were showing naked pictures of herself to other men? You never answered that question, except to say that women shouldn't do it.

I am sorry, but I just do not follow your reasoning. Are you implying that looking at porn should be considered the same as staring in porn?

To answer your question: No, I would not want my wife staring in a porn movie. And she would not want me staring in a porn movie.

Just like there is a difference between watching football and playing football, or there is a difference between watching sky diving and participating in sky diving, there is a difference between LOOKING at porn and STARING in porn.

Next question....

Give me a break!

Yes, actors and actresses are real human beings. So what?

Are you suggesting that a guy is unable to tell the difference between the actress and the woman portrayed on the screen? Do you think that guys should think that women cannot differentiate between Frances Reid, Deidre Hall, Drake Hogestyn, and the characters of Alice Horton, Dr. Marlena Evans, and John Black, on Days of Our Lives?

When women watch soap operas they know that it is a fantasy. When guys watch porn, they also know that it is a fantasy.