To those who have posted here and have tried talking sense to average......
I will not direct this post to him as I have come to realsie in life there are simply some people who do not want to learn or understand the point of views of other.
But I wanted to say that I feel wasp is right...I see nothing wrong with masterbation but porn is totally unnecessary. As a woman in my 30s I do have a sex drive that equals my h but to me a man who uses porn is THE BIGGEST TURN OFF. This may seem harsh but somewhere in my mind it sends out several messages

1 he has no respect for me
2 he has no respect for any woman.
3 He has little appretiation of a real womans body or mind
4 He is desperate
5 He doesnt deserve me
6 He is immature
7 If he gets off on bodies of women who clearly have never given life and have no obvious signs of aging, pregnancy etc and compares a real womans body negatively to them then maybe he is not a safe person to be with.
8 He's a loser

Whether these things are true o not it is irrelevant, it is how I feel (an many female friends have made similar comments)

Contrary to some comments an insecure woman is the one who feels its disrespectful in her heart but is too scared to stand up and say ' This is crap, you choose' A secure and confident woman states clearly how she feels, respects that he has to make his own choices and respects herself enought to choose to walk if he choses porn.

oh , and before any pro porn guys get on here and say ' but I dont compare my wife/partner with these women' Then why is it the vast majority of porn features women who are flawless and show no signs of life experinec or aging? If us real womens bodies are what men liked then all the mags would have women that looked just like everyday women. (I dont know about you but If I look around the supermarket I dont see many us mommys looking like the porn women, myself included)
When do we get celebrated, respected and admired???????

Yeah, I get your point. Unfortunately, my question was not if women have the same sex drives as men or not. My question clearly was based on the premise that one partner's sex drive is greater then the other partner's. Should the partner who has a higher sex drive then force the other to perform? Or should the one with higher sex drive just be unfulfilled?

Don't buck the question.

If you change the question around, then your answer, although correct, does not help to answer the original question.

Point conceded.

letmejustsay,

Unfortunately there is pornography as you describe as "like everyday women". There is pornography for every taste and perversion that you can imagine and many more that you haven't even thought of. The worst part is it's free and accessible by anyone who I'd consider computer savvy.

I say pornography is the most dangerous drug, because it affects the mind for life (pictures, movies and stories burned into your long term memory). Sure, over time it becomes more difficult to recall them, but still, why put those things in your mind in the first place. I'll tell you why, lack of education about it. There are warnings for every other drug in high school, why not a warning against the use pornography?

Pornography makes up more than 1/2 of the eCommerse done on the internet. Include the free stuff and you can begin to see just how many people are using this drug.

Get real! Just what have you been reading? Yes, it sounds good, politically correct, to say that men and women have the same sex drive. Look, men and women have the same needs! Look, there is therefore no reason for porn! Look, we are the same!

Reality is different. Men have greater sexual need then women. Deal with it. Some people have. For example there is this website called marriagebuilders.com, where Dr. Harley discusses just this issue. see: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html Read it.

If men and women would on average truly have the same sex drive, why, pray dear MoG, would men have such a great need to turn to porn and women would not? And why would we have this discussion in the first place?

Don’t ignore reality for the sake of political correctness.

Sorry, I feel like you're barking up the wrong tree. Just because car magazines don't feature older, rusty cars doesn't mean that guys don't love their rusty car to death but love to browse magazines of the new models for entertainment.

To me, women go wrong by focusing soo much on the physical. Just because we are visual and are attracted to the physical at first doesn't mean that is what REALLY hooks us. It's not long before the attraction is more about her being "the one" and the features of the wife he is familiar with that he loves than the raw beauty. This is the sort of deal where a husband or wife might find a mole on your butt cute where-as no one else would. This is a good thing because when things start sagging and wrikling, the guy is still attracted to his wife. If he were going on raw beauty, maybe he wouldn't. So when you know someone as a person, you can appreciate their raw beauty and them as the person.

The girls in the magazines, you are just looking at their beauty. There is no connection to her as a person nor does the guy wish there to be. She is literally an object. That's all the magazine aims for it to be and that is how the reader likes it. The qualities that men are looking for in wives are not anything which would interest anyone in a magazine format. "On page 8 we have a dedicated mother, funny, takes great care of you when you get sick, makes a mean Apple pie..." "And that scar on her stomouch... that's the beautiful memory from your 3rd one... the c-section. And her love handles really grow on you. They feel very soft and feminine in your hands". See? All those qualities are actually something a husband would look endearingly at about his wife but mean nothing to someone who hasn't been with her for years or has his life invested in/with her. Nope, no good for a magazine. See?

The part that makes the thing all come together is that guys can compartmentalize things really well. He can view porn and not mix it with his wife. The porn is cheap entertainment. The wife is a whole different compartment complete with a wholesome respect and appreciation of her as a companion and person. I PROMISE you, this is possible. But most women can't wrap their minds around the possibility of that because that is not how their mind operates. SO, that is why it's good for men not to view porn-- because it hurts women and women are unable to understand it.

AverageGuy,


The answer to your question is not black and white, as in, partner with the higher sex drive needs to do BLA BLA BLA to meet their need for sexual fulfillment. There is a reason why they are having this problem. We as humans are sexual beings, if one person has a higher "sex drive" as you call it, there is a problem with one or both of them. Though the term "sex drive" is moot imo, because we all SHOULD love sex. If we don't LOVE sex, there are REASONS; get those reasons (problems) resolved either through talking or counseling.

If I were counseling a couple who were having problems with sexual fulfillment, then I would start with the person who had didn't want to have sex as often. I would find out as much as I could about their sexual history. I would ask them how they view sexual interaction with their spouse. How does your spouse make you feel when you don't meet their need for sexual fulfillment. What could your partner do to increase your sex drive? What is your partner not doing right during sex? What could they do better to improve your pleasure of it? And after all that, I would have them fill out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire along witht the Love Busters one. Then in turn, I would continue with the person and basically go through the same questions and conversations. In the end there would be a clear solution to the problem and I would provide a plan of action to resolve the couple's problem with sexual fulfillment.

Hi Wasp, Thanks for your answer, I do understand what you are saying and in a way you confirmed what I am saying.
I realise that the hook is about more.....My point was that this raw physiacl attraction considers THE ULTIMATE OF BEAUTY TO BE SO DIFFERENT to everyday wives and mothers. If this were not true then there would be no need to compartmentalise. Irealise that this is something we women have no control over (and you may say men either) but consider the ways in which the epitome of beauty has changed throughout the centuries. Years ago a plum, motherly woman WAS the epitome of beauty to men. Now it seems stivck thin, blondes are it........
Porn is bad, not only because women dont like it but mainly because it polllutes mens minds about what true feminine beauty is........

AverageGuy,

I'm glad you finally are starting to read some of the stuff on this site, but you don't seem to be understanding what is written. Dr. Harley is NOT supporting you by saying the following:


This does not mean this is healthy or normal, nor does Dr. Harley say it is. He's just saying that this problem exists. I'm sure that Dr. Harley would provide very similar advice that I am providing to you when counseling couples that are suffering from sexual fulfillment issues.

Thanks for your input.

Are you then saying that if a person has a lower sex drive, then it most likely means that there is something wrong with her?

People have different sex drives. It is OK. I don't see a reason why the person with the lower sex drive, must automatically have something wrong with her. Maybe the problem is with the person who has the higher sex drive.

Implying that the person who has a lower sex drive is in the wrong, and that she needs to be cured in order to have a healthy sexual relationship with the partner, just seems abhorrent, paternalistic, and disrespectful of women.

If you are a counselor, I'd bet that guys like to hear you say: "if a woman does not perform as often as the guy wants, then we need to cure the situation, so that she does." I just wonder how degraded such a woman feels.

Ok, I see what you are saying. We could say the same about beauty magazines, right?

I do agree with you that porn has the ability to pollute. It sometimes does put ideas in guy's heads such as "I wish my wife would do that particular act". All guys are different and some I'm sure use porn without setting boundaries for themselves.

I personally used it with very good separation between reality and fantacy. I never once wanted to date a girl I saw on porn and none of my girlfriends and now wife necessarily look like the girls from the videos/mags. But I promise you that I love every inch of my wife. I would not change anything about her physical appearance.

AverageGuy,


If you polled the teenagers of today, you would find that more and more girls are turning to pornography to meet their need for sexual fulfillment. Especially, due to the secrecy of the internet.

Main stream pornography is geared towards men, but the epidemic of internet pornography is geared towards both. There is something for everyone now.

A great philosopher once said "Be wary of giving advice, because the wise don't need it, and the fools won't heed it." That is why I said that I was done trying to educate you earlier. Yet you drew me back in with your same ignorant mindset about the subject. I am really done with you now.

AverageGuy,

Gah, you keep drawning me back in. :P


Or the guy might feel bad, because he's not performing well, like he should.

If you keep an open mind, I will speak. Otherwise, I am done with you defending pornography.

Wasp, I think it's great you feel that way about your wife. Unfortunately this is not the case with a lot of men. (my h being one of them , constantly comparing and complaining) I know from my girlfriends that I am not alone in this experience...If only more h had the love and attraction and common sense you obviously do not to pollute their minds....I promise all you men this integrity is the biggest turn on for any wife.......
Like ManofGod says Im done speaking with average for as long as he defends porn.....but you other guys on here have made my day and made me realose that real men of integrity still exist....

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that. People can be soo awful and hurtful sometimes-- doing things to others which they would hate done to themselves. I hope your husband will appreciate and respect you in the very near future.

I am NOT defending porn. I am simply saying that if W is upset that H uses porn then then there are two possibilities to resolve this problem: (1) he can respect her wishes and forego porn, or (2) she can learn accept him and be supportive of his activities. Each couple should be able to decide how to deal with this problem in their own way. The knee-jerk reaction that option (1) is always right and option (2) is always wrong is simply too narrowminded.

Some posters expressed their opinion that porn is wrong. Fine. Although I disagree, I respect that. Why can't people who do not like porn respect the opinion of those who think that porn is OK?

And finally, when a poster is upset with her H's use of porn, and asks on this forum what's with "men and their porn", and "why does he betray me by using porn?", I tried to answer it from guy's point of view, trying to assure her that she need not feel threatened. While you may feel that porn is degrading to women and is wrong, her H may not.

The point of this debate is not to reach a conclusion if porn is harmful or not. The point of this debate is to help the original poster understand her H's point of view, so that they may deal with this problem.

You may not like my point of view, and you may even be disgusted with it. Asking for an opinion, and then shooting it down because it does not jive with your opinion does not really serve much of a purpose.

The question is: do you want to know a guy's point of view of this subject so that you may resolve this problem with porn, or do you want to preach that porn is evil?

If you do not try to even understand why a guy would use porn, then how do you want to even begin approaching the spouse who does use porn?

Averageguy, I guess the only question I ever had about porn was how any guy could justify using it if they know it upsets their partner and that as an ABSOLUTE FACT (regardless of petty justifications) IT IS (in the boldest of bold type) TOTALLY AND UTTERLY DISRESPECTFUL: TO ALL WOMEN.

If a partner knows that his behavior is very upsetting to his partner, then I am perplexed why he would continue doing it. If a woman is totally against porn, then I agree that there simply should be no porn in the house. Period. It has to do with respect for her believes and her feelings.

The question as if porn is totally and utterly disrespectful to all women is certainly debatable. We’ve done it above. And we can have more discussions about it. But it DOES NOT MATTER. Whether a woman’s view point is right or wrong is irrelevant. What is relevant is that porn upsets her. He should respect her views, no matter how irrational they are.

But your question of “Why does a guy use porn even though it upsets his partner?” does deserve an answer. It is because the guy underestimates the strength of her feelings about it (“it’s just pictures, big deal...”), and because the woman misunderstands his viewpoint of porn and his reason for using porn (“he is cheating on me with porn, and he wants to sleep with other women, and he does not love me,...”).

Does that answer your question?