So let's talk about seeds.

A bag of seeds at your home improvement center of choice. Flowers. Vegetables. Whatever. Innocuous. Small. Insignificant.

They pale in comparison to the ready grown perennials. To the pre-cast goldfish ponds with the fountains. To the concrete lawn art.

My goodness, they don't cost much, therefore the must not have value.

But say the same thing to the farmer. When he buys seeds, he sees potential.

The suburbanite fast-tracker buys the fountain and fish pond. Probably has them installed. And claims "Look at my beautiful yard, oozing zen." In a home he will probably sell in a couple of years. At which point all that he has wrought simply becomes an investment.

The farmer? Potential. Profit. Livelihood. What farmer is not satisfied with a good crop? What farmer is not downtrodden when his efforts to raise one are thwarted by some act of nature.

To some, the seed is trivial. Others - potential and satisfaction.

So to those who pursue the immediate gratification - will they EVER realize the beauty of a simple seed? What would it take?

Time.

Because the engine of the world that is fueled by those who stay the course for the long term has quite a storehouse that would have to be depleted before the realization that there were no more seeds struck those who take them for granted.

We balk at the current president (whomever it may be) but the effects of our world we live in day to day are from the guy TERMS ago.

We lament our teenagers for how they act now, when they simply act what WE showed them.

We live from image to image. Quip to quip. We can recite scads of catch phrases, tee-shirt slogans, and bumper stickers, but no longer literature.

Are we GROWING anything anymore??

Do we pay respect to the process??

Or do we scratch our heads wondering how we got here and jump the next ride we can to get us out?

Do we learn anymore? Or is someone else going to handle it?

It is just after Veteran's Day. Is that a long weekend to you? Do you stop and appreciate what we have? Or are you just thankful for a respite to your toils?

Why do we choose to let go what is important? How do we decide what is important?

Is family? Apparently not. Not anymore. How many are broken? When the question to most 40 year olds is more often "How many times have you been married?" as opposed to "How long have you been married?"

Ideals? Is that important? How frequently does today's "philosophy" (which has been essentially relegated to movies and TV) justify bad behavior. The sense of entitlement has far outstripped the sense of effort.

Does your past haunt you? Should it? I mean, where is the attention span. For a past to haunt you, someone must remember it. And how does that tie in to forgiveness?

Veteran's Day. Jane Fonda comes to mind. Did horrible things in the 'nam. Is she forgiven? Most vets would say no. Most young people don't know about her past. If she changed, wonderful. Repent. Forgive. But if she were to attend a Veteran's Day function, would that not be hypocritical? If she repented, would she not realize that she may not "feel that way" anymore, but that her past actions dishonor any function such as that she might attend. Do they? Is there forgiveness there if we hold her accountable for something that happened so long ago? (Just an example). There are PLENTY on all sides of the political spectrum.

We elect draft dodgers as Commander in Chief.

Huge corporations shuffle money stepping on investors and employees, yet they are boycotted for days, maybe weeks.

Terrorists bomb our country, yet we quickly grow weary of rooting them out.

Racism is turned up in pockets of society, yet our outrage ends when the media stops telling us about it.

I was in Detroit shortly after Rosa Parks died. Hot topic of discussion was who should be making a buck and who should not. Little was said about her life and impact, everyone was concerned with who was going to profit from the news of her death. Which poses a few questions – 1) What kind of individual would be so concerned with profit in a situation like that? 2) What kind of individual would give any credence to a situation like that?

We justify our actions. BUT FOR ME, IT'S DIFFERENT!!! I do it myself. And hate it when I do, but I still do it. Is the answer "It's OK, I'm not perfect?" Isn't that justification in itself?

And when is THAT OK?

What exactly ARE "mitigating circumstances?" Would they be the same for our grandparent's? What about our grandchildren?

Superman doesn't have any. But of course, he's Superman. He can afford not to. Kind of easy to hold the high ground when you have only one weakness.

How many forms of kryptonite do we have? And at what point do they REALLY influence our free will? I mean REALLY influence it? As in take control of it...

Do the circumstances of our start, or even our situation, always justify our actions?

Yes?

What about Dr. George Washington Carver?

Albert Einstein?

Abraham Lincoln?

Men of fame who started with nothing.

Or on the "negative" side of the coin -

Adolf Hitler

Ghengis Kahn

Rasputin

Again, started with nothing, but accomplished (bad) things.

Don't ask me to list those who have started with PLENTY and accomplished little. Not enough KB on the server.

But the point is - how can circumstances then be an excuse.

...

...

...

But I suspect people grow. People change. I mean, we are not the same as we were when we were kids. "That's grown-up talk. That's a grown-up hobby. That's a grown-up place."

Somewhere when we grow, we lose our heroes. Why does life beat that out of us? Why do we let it? Things happen so fast. On to the next thing, no time for heroes. A hero needs staying power, they just can't survive amongst the one hit wonders.

Seeds among the weeds. Funny how weeds grow so fast and die so quick, only to multiply. Until you get used to them. Weren't they ALWAYS there?

Does anyone check on the seeds anymore?

Or is "someone else" doing that?

Mr. Walker,

That's an awful lot of content to be titled a mere "ramble".

You raise some interesting points. You ask some serious questions, which may have been intended as rhetoric, but I'd like to answer some of them...for myself.



Why do I choose to let go? Fear, hopelessness, and my own weaknessess.

How do you decide what is important? You just decide. You make a decision and you don't give up, even when your efforts are thwarted by some act of nature or by someone else.


Heroes can survive if we let them. By definition, isn't the farmer a hero...more heroic is a human man, who having more than ONE weakness, chooses to overcome them for nobility of purpose? It's easy to enough to overcome Kryptonite. You just stay away from it and you're good. You're right...it's easy enough to hold the high ground, given those circumstances.

What about the guy who has more than just Kryptonite to weaken him? What about the average guy who, having more than one weakness, mitigating circumstances, and has fallen flat on his face, yet continues to take risks, make sacrifices, and chooses to continue on the path of his noble purpose?

By definition, is that man not a hero?



By definition, is my husband not a hero? He may not be to some. Maybe to some, Superman is more heroic because his lack of mitigating circumstances enable him to stand out more (the red cape and the big "S" don't hurt either).

Superman is no hero in my eyes. He's a suburbanite fast-tracker, who pursues immediate gratification with only one obstacle to challenge his purpose.

My husband is a farmer. He realizes the beauty of a simple seed. He has much more than one obstacle, one weakness, and yet he continues to be couragous in his faith in that one simple seed: his noble purpose.

That is a hero. He may not be a hero to everyone, but that farmer is a hero to that one simple seed.

HI NCWalker. I think of you from time to time. I hope you and the boys are doing well.

as froz mentioned... you have a lot in your post.

here is one i would like to answer...


i'm not all that young and yet i do not know what you are referring to about Jane Fonda. but lets not talk about that one example. lets make it more personal.

I've done some awful things, disrespected myself, my H and my marriage. i honestly can say, i didn't really get it back then. i have grown, i understand much more now. i have confessed, i am trying to do all i can to take responsibility and make ammends. if there is stuff i am not doing, it is because i do not know what else to do. i do not feel the way i did when i did those things, should that mean my H should not feel bad about things i have done anymore? no one can really say what another feels. i think he has the right to still feel pain due to my past actions.

but do i dishonor our marriage today?

now you tell me, does the answer to the question above relate to Jane as well.

i'm not sure what your ramble was all about.

care to share how YOU are doing?

Hi NC,

Caught my eye first thing this morning. Are you living one of the "Lives of quiet desperation", or rather not so quiet today. Actually I feel like yelling "NCWalker is a Cynic" over and over. And then I think, "Oh, he must be young", but I still get philosophical now and then and I'm not young.

Honestly NC, I think all you can do is all you can do. Raise your kids the best you can (and I cringed at the teenager remark- my mother didn't get what she deserved when I was a teen, and I certainly am not "reaping what I've sowed" with my 15DD, not yet, she's still growing). Live your life the best you can. Give homage to what you honor. MAKE this life what YOU want to.

I agree, the world has gone crazy, or rather society seems to lack moral fiber. But I can't just spike the cereal with that.

My DD15 LOVES literature! She can recite Shakespeare and has been telling me about the Canterbury Tales (I've never particularly cared for Chaucer and I've long since forgotten much of the Tales). She maintains that she was just told by another student that she is her English teacher's (Honors, btw <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) favorite, because she actively participates in discussions. My DD also mentioned once to me that I seem to have a lot of friends that are very good, among the best, in their field. I replied that I respect people who do their best. I once told a gas station attendant that she was very good at her job - I did this in front of my kids. That girl was exceptional at her job, other workers paled in comparison. There is a girl that works near us at another gas station: she has only one arm. I got back in the car one day and said "I love that girl". My DD and I discussed the fact that this "handicapped" girl does not "act" handicapped. I very much respect that.

After that ramble, does my DD get it? Only some of it. But. then, I probably only get some of it too. And she is still young, as I said, still growing. I am constantly "harping" on her about her work ethic, interests/priorities... She is fast losing her interest in horses and switching to fun/guys <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> !!! I can only do what I can do. She is still growing.

Same with DS8, but he is still very much a seedling! Loving, smart, sooo compassionate. I hope that I, and life experiences, help him to grow strong!

Thanks for the analogy NC. I truly respect farmers, esp since I moved out to the country.

On the other hand, NC, WHy the heck so cynical??? Have you always been this way, or is this a more recent development (A/WW related in some way) ?? Remember, our parents, and all those who came before, have lamented the upcoming generation! I don't think that I turned out so bad.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Cheer up nc, go read some Hemingway!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

jls

PS. My S8 and I grow seeds every spring.

I have to think like FL here...


I have repented, I have paid my dues...I almost lost my husband and family for my betrayel, and on top of it was betrayed in the end as well...and abandoned for the the OW...idaily i am so sorry for my actions a year ago...most days I can now forgive myself, but only due to the many many changes I have made in my life.

If I attended a wedding, or marriage retreat, or celebratedmy anniversaries - does that mean I am dishonoring my marraige by now celebrating them - am i a hypocrate? If I was not repentful, then yes - I would be, but I am truly truly sorry...

If Miss Fonda was truly repentful (which I undertand she isn't sorry for all her misdoings) then attending these things would not be a hypocracy in my mind...but the actions of someone who truly understands her faults and has made changes in her life, and has respected those she has hurt...

If this isn't the case for all repentant people, then there is no chance for me or my husband...and I refuse to believe that, as a year later, we are doing pretty good...and there is love, and there is change, and there is a new marriage, that is changing, growing and learning...if our marriage is hypicritical...then there is no hope for a program like MB right?

A ramble - that was a bit of a stretch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

(((NCW)))

I've missed you, that's all I have to add to this, um "ramble" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hm, I read not so long ago that Jane Fonda made a high-profile appearance in which she clearly apologized for her Vietnam shenanigans.

NC, we still have heroes, good ones sometimes. They aren't usually famous I'm guessing.

I'm frustrated about the seeds sometimes too.

GC

Quoting GC cuz that is how I feel too. NCW, I think about you often and wonder how you are. Did you know YOU planted seeds in my mind? Many people here have. I repented, have grown and changed...many do and sadly some don't like my STBX. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi all.

It was mostly rhetoric. Had an interesting day yesterday. Sometimes I write to express my feelings...

I noticed the repent part got some interesting replies.

So back to Ms. Fonda....

What she did was essentially propogate some dangerous and very anti-american ideas during the Viet Nam war. She is responsible for quite a lot of the bad feelings the vets got when they returned home. Where all they did was serve.

So if she has come forth and said "I was wrong" well that is great. If it were me, and I came to that realization, I STILL would consider it a slap in the face to the veteran's to participate in a veteran's day ceremony. But that is me personally.

Not that if I truly repented it wouldn't be OK, it would. It is an honor thing. Even if I was forgiven, I would have trouble participating because what I had done in the past kind of soils the event. Understand?

Is that too harsh?

And as far as heroes going away - as I get older, I witness more and more unheroic behavior.

Is society TRULY changing, or is it that I am more cognizant that my youthful ideals are unrealistic. That the world I *thought* existed based on the upbringing from my parents isn't really true.

We try and make things "fair" for our kids. Not realistic.

You all, are of course, correct. Just as the circumstances of our births do not dicate our futures, neither do the circumstances we are in.

Free will is so absolutely precious, why would one nullify our ability to choose by saying our circumstances forced our hand? I would hazard a guess that pretty much all character flaws hinge on that one thing. We are weak and let our circumstances push us around.

NCWalker is fine. Just been a while since I rambled, felt one was due.

I'm pleased to see you again, NCW. I always enjoy your ambles. And your frontal attacks, too - they are usually easier to understand anyway.

This is important. Everyone should know this. It's remedial ethics. Ethics 20.

GC

Aphelion - You are quoting one of my heroes!

Small world.

My two favorites from him are:

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."

and

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."

Would that we really understood the second one. WAY too often I fool myself into thinking I am right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

NCW

NC,

Patriot is your hero, too??? Why is that guy always getting quoted ???

Just being silly...

I second GC...

A thing I tried to explain to my STBXW...we ALWAYS have a choice. Even in the most brutal dictatorship - you could choose the way of the dictator or the firing range...not a good choice, but a choice nontheless.

If only people would accept that every action in life comes about only after a conscious choice is made, then this victimization and finger-pointing might come to an end.

We have free will. We can choose right or we can choose wrong.


-I hope things are well...it was good to accidentally chat with you the other day.

TM

i don't know if she did step up and say i'm sorry. but here is another perspective maybe... assuming she did ask for forgiveness and repent, and is sincere, maybe participating in veteran's day ceremony is her way of trying to put actions with her words.

i think that is too harsh.

think about FWSs, if we follow your thought pattern and how can recovery work?

we would have trouble participating in the marriage because of what we had done in the past... what good is that?

isn't it self-forgiveness that allows us to boldly behave as if we have been forgiven, giving us the freedom to love unhindered by past sins?

now i am a bit confused as to who own's this quote:


but boy can i relate!!! i wonder a lot these days is if am fooling myself.

hi NC, i see you in i'ville.

so i thought i would bump this up for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi FL.

Yes. I read the replies.

But again, I was just musing.

In reality I am a pretty simple guy and don't worry too much about deep philosophy in the day to day. I have a pretty simple litmus test I do to steer my actions.

1) Does it edify God?
2) Would I say it to the face of who I am talking about?
3) If my kids did it, would I be mad at them?
4) Does it seek peace and pursue it?

And that's pretty much it. Most every choice I make is bounced off of those 4 things to determine if it is "a good thing" or not.

And of course, I ask the other questions: is it fun, would it taste good, etc. But those don't bear with keeping actions within my personal moral code.

And if you think I always do it, I have some swampland for ya. Of course I am not perfect, but that is what I try and attain.

NCW

I could use some swampland. I hear there is a boom coming for that kind of thing....

Just on the subject of seeds. Three days ago I went through the most poor villages in China on my way to the Great Wall. How I wish I'd had pockets full of seeds to give to them. Would be much more useful than money.

As for the Wall, I am so thankful to have had the opportunity to have visited. But as for the Beijing Olympics - there is so much work to be done it's scary.!

How's that for changing the subject.