A couple of weeks ago, we were sitting in the car and I wanted to know if my H understood his reason for having an affair. He had previously said it was because I didn't touch him enough in the way he wanted to be. And that it was neat to have another woman think he was G*d's gift to women. (I guess she built him up real high). I said that if he didn't know what the real reason was then it could happen again. Well he said I guess it could, if my needs were not being met. I went off. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT COULD HAPPEN AGAIN? He tried to calm me down and say well according to the book(HNHN) if his EN weren't met that he could fall into something like that again. But it was because that is what the book said.

Well at this point, I'm very upset. I know that is the basis of all of this, however, my needs were not being met either. Only one that I can even think of(financial support) was being met. But I did not have an A. So part of that I don't buy. I've had chances, but would never even consider letting my guard down. I knew better.

So I feel like he is blaming me for the A. And if I don't keep up my end, he may do it again. At least this is what I heard. He kept saying that it wasn't exactly that, but he said that IS what the book says.

So I'm crying and yelling that "you might do it again? you're supposed to be protecting your weaknesses. How could you even say that?" Needless to say, it was ugly and we stopped talking at that point. We have not brought it up since.

Seems to me if I knew that I made such a huge mistake and was sorry for it. That I knew how much I hurt my S. I would never do it again. I would D first if things could not be worked out. I would never,ever let it happen again. But he seems to think that it COULD happen again if his needs are not met. Am I missing something? I get all the EN stuff, but there is a point where you don't make the same mistake again unless you want to. It's still a choice. Was he out of his mind or am I not getting something?

This was not a discussion that made me feel better about us. I thought he had learned something. He read HNHN and really believed it. But how can I trust him when he says it COULD happen again. Geez, that's the last thing I wanted him to say. How can I trust that? I really don't think he is trying to sort his actions out. Thanks for any advice on this.

I think that what is **supposed** to happen is for the first year or so into recovery, the FWS is supposed to be an open book - sharing passwords, voicemail, email, always spelling out where they are, etc... During this year, both the BS and the WS learn to meet the needs of the other.

The "open-book" part prevents another affair (hopefully) when things are still difficult in the M. After that, after a year of learning and practicing, you should be meeting each other's needs, so the EN not being met wouldn't be an issue.

Tough situation Michelle.

I would RE-approach him and talk to him without the crying and hysterics and calmly talk this through. For the record, I think you are on to something, but don't want to say more for fear of prejudcing you in your recovery.

Are you still in counseling with him? YOu don't seem nearly as "settled" as him with this. What is he doing to protect you here?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Cat,
I guess I understand the "open book" phase preventing the A from rekindling and by learning eachother's needs should in turn prevent future affairs from happening. However, it is still a choice. If he is not happy after all is said and done, wouldn't a D be what he should say could happen and not an affair?

Lem,
A big problem for us is communication. He is a CA so I don't talk about the A often. We are not in MC and have never been. I've looked for an MC that would practice the MB principles, but have not found one around here. H said he would go, I don't know if he still would.

As far as being settled, I am better, but I think about it daily. I don't know if he does or not. He just seems to be going on with life as I sit here suffering. So to see if we are making progress I've asked him, does he know why it happened? The answer always involves me. So to me he isn't doing the work. And then he goes a step further to say that it COULD happen again. I was floored. It is STILL a choice. He may feel bad if I don't meet his needs, but it is still a choice. How could he say that he would make the same BAD choice again?

Or am I totally overreacting? I've thought on this for several weeks, and still I think his answer speaks volumes in the worst way.

OK, Michelle, I am gonna give you my "take" on things. You can feel free to agree or disagree with my view.

To me, this is how I see it. Your Wayward cheated....and felt real bad....that he got caught....He "SAID" the right things to make it right, BUT clearly he didn't DO the right things as you are here and wondering. When you say things like he said he would go to counseling, but you don't know now if he still would I wonder what is up...Why wouldn't you know now? Why wouldn't your Wayward...err, I mean Former Wayward do anything and everything to ensure that the marriage gets fully "recovered".

Too him, life seems fine with you guys AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT THE AFFAIR. Life is certainly going by for him, why wouldn't it? He got to have an affair, have Sex with another new "fresh" body, and for all intents and purposes get away with it scott free. He**, he even found validation in why he did this, because he didn't get what he needed from you...even more assuaging his guilt. And now, he almost feels entitled.....if he doesn't get his needs met again, he reserves the right to get them filled elsewhere.......AGAIN.

TO TOP IT ALL OFF HE TELLS YOU THIS....not for one second, realizing the full impact and extreme stupidity of his comment. That comment by him lacks total insight and realization for any of what has occured as a result HIS CHOICES. His innane thinking has narrowed down to that fact that it is all "right there in the book"....written by a Doctor and all...

He has CLEARLY NOT done everything in his power to protect you and to make things right with your marriage. Yes, he may have stopped screwing the other woman (and in his mind, that may be enouugh), but to me, you seem like you "settled" for anything to stop the affair, and now when you are faced with the devestation that this remains in your life, he goes on with life as if nothing ever happened.

What are you and him doing to "protect" against this ever happening again? He used the MB princpals almost against you here, and you in your own devestation let it happen.

Now you are left wandering around seething inside with anger and emotion and hurt that you don't know how to express or process.

Now, I don't surmise to know what to do about all of this. Crying and screaming at him are not likely to accomplaish anything productve for you.

I think at the very least, you should seek some IC for yourself and for assisstance in coping with this. You are clearly in need of some additional help with coping with thiw.

I do NOT think you are overreacting in the least bit. Your personal recovery needs to happen for your marital recovery to happen. It seems to me, he can help you with both, yet doesn't "know how" or truly "want to". I don't know the answer here.

I don't have any advice of what to do that would be "MB approved"....but no doubt many people here can help you with this. I think you should keep plugging away at solutions with him untill you "feel" like there is true change.

Some of this may be a "recovery" "dip", but I tend to think there is more here than that.

Just my take, Michelle, and I have been wrong before. Take what you like from this (if any) and chuck the rest, it is all A-ok with me.

Best of luck

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let me give you my daily plug for the MB book *Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.*

"Freeloaders" in a relationship honestly believe that a relationship should NOT involve any sort of work or effort on their part. It either happens all by itself or it doesn't happen at all. If he has to "work" at relationhip, as in protect it and nurture it and invest in it, then there was something wrong with it to begin with and gee that couldn't possibly be HIS fault.

A Freeloader's only committment is "I'm here, aren't I?"

Freeloaders see nothing wrong with getting their emotional needs met outside the relationship. Remember, their ONLY commitment to it is "I won't leave." And they're not going to make any special effort to meet YOUR needs because that would be work - remember? His mere presence (when he feels like being there) is supposed to be more than enough for his partner.

This is also "Renter" behavior, in that Renters only stay as long as the landlord (you) makes things attractive enough for them. If you don't, they feel fully justified in going out and Renting somewhere else.

Does he do anything about meeting YOUR needs? What is his reaction to the POJA? Those things will tell you for sure whether he is a Renter or a full-blown Freeloader.

Buyers are the only ones who last in long-term relationships. You've got to have two Buyers or it just won't last. Renters and Freeloaders simply don't care enough.
Mulan

Michele, the man is confused. He has no idea why he cheated. I really don't think that he is an amoral serial cheater. Do you? Unless you think he is amoral or is a serial cheater then this was an aberration of character.

What you do need from him is his committment that if he is unhappy again that he will come to you instead of getting his needs met elsewhere. You need his committment that he will take every step to affair proof your marriage. Affairs are not something that just "happen" to people. Sure, people get sucked in unawares sometimes, but it is still a conscious choice that the WS makes. He needs to assure you that he will not let down his guard again. That he will not be alone with women, that he will never put himself in precarious situations again.

Just practicing the Four Rules of Protection should affair proof your marriage, Michele. click here---> http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Lem, Mulan, and Mel,
Thanks for responding. I've read your responses and Im going to think on them for a bit. There's alot of truth in them and I want to take the right road to recovery.

I hope that I am not just settling. But I just may not be seeing it. Thanks. You all are wonderful for taking the time to help.

Michele, my blood ran cold when I read that you feel you might be "settling." It is likely that this thought will cross your mind often in the first year of recovery. Anger and regret is a natural part of recovery. [my worst phase was around 8 months] However, it will likely pass. The anger is temporary, the feeling that you are settling for damaged goods will likely pass. Please just don't make the mistake of acting on those feelings, ok? Don't do anything for at least 18 months, please.

I had a discussion with my H last night. I kept fairly calm. I asked him about the comment that he had made weeks ago. He said he was answering that as if he was being tested on the material he read. He gave the answer in the book. Ok I get that, so then I dug a little deeper and asked him if I stopped meeting his needs would he choose to make that bad decision again. It was a decision. He said that he would first tell me that I was not meeting his EN. Then I asked well if I still didn't meet his needs would he have another A or would he divorce me. Well he pondered that then asked what was the reason that I wasn't doing it (I turned suddenly evil, I got sick, I stopped trying). I said it really doesn't matter, a D or an A? Then he said I guess a D. I made it clear to him that an A is not a solution for our problems and that if we cannot work them out, then a D is the only solutiion( now this is only hypothetically speaking). I have no plans on D my H or not trying to meet his needs. I just wanted him to understand that an A cannot happen again.

So he got that. He said he would tell me if his EN were not being met.

So we contiued. I asked him if he felt he was healed. Was he suffering or in pain? Did he think about the A? He said that he did not think about it, he would only if it was brought up. He said he wasn't in any pain. He was ashamed, embarrassed, totally upset with himself about it. If he could go back and change it, he would. He said that he could deal with all of that himself. He deserved to feel bad so he could handle that. I asked if he stuffed it away and he said basically yes. He said that right now he was happy and content with us, more than ever before. This is what got me...he said that he was HAPPILY MARRIED!

At one point in my life, I would have been glad for that. Not now. It's exactly as one BH had posted before...his WS had the A, got the new M she had wanted, she was reborn, he was broken. I didn't really like that at all. Did he not see my pain?

So then I went and explained to him how it is for me...it's like he stabbed me, but didn't know why. The wound will take several years to heal. It is visible and is painful to different degrees at different times. It's bleeding and he doesn't even ask me about it. He ignores this terrible gaping wound and goes about his day. I told him I needed support daily. If he sees me upset, don't ignore me, say "I'm sorry, I love you". Just don't ignore the pain.

I think he understood. We'll see. I asked him if the conversation had been difficult and he said yes. I thanked him.

I feel he doesn't comprehend the pain that he has inflicted. And he never will. I don't think he is purposely trying to get away with the A. But that is all he knows to do. He thinks bringing it up will only hurt me. I told him that I think about it constantly, it would not hurt me, it would help. I told him that I thought our marriage was healing, but I wasn't. I need more from him. I need support and I need the things that he gave her. He would say and write all sorts of things to her. Our conversations are getting quieter.

He has never faced adversity in his life. Things have always been easy for him. He is selfish. But this is just him. So how can I get him to understand what I feel. I know that unless you've gone through an experience, you can only imagine, never understand. So how can he help me? He has no idea of the depth of devastation.

A WS will NEVER understand what they have done until it happens to them.

When I has a WH, I did feel bad about my A and there was some lingering guilt. My conscience would prod me from time to time, but I was "happy" with my "new" wife.

When I became a BS, I got the double-tap...the pain of having one you THOUGHT loved you...the utter BETRAYAL by the woman I would have taken a bullet for. THEN, knowing that I had inflicted that PAIN on the Mother of my children...I was SO dissappointed in myself...

There would only be ONE way for him to KNOW what he did and I KNOW you DON'T EVER want to go there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Minor OT...have you exposed OW to her CO yet?

WNB

Michele, I am new here but felt the need to pass on some information that I got today from the Harleys. Dr. Harley recommended that I read an article that he wrote on the MBWS called forgive and forget. I tells you and H how to deal with your anger and/or resentment regarging the A. He called the process "just compensation". I have read it and it is right on for what I would need from my WH in reassuring me that he was protecting me and keeping us safe from another A. Food for thought! Hope this helps.

WNB,
Is it NECESSARY to have the pain understood? What do ya think?
And no, I have not gone to CO. I had to go through H's office to have all phone numbers changed. I felt really great that I got that done. It took a bit of doing. I'm hoping(and I know you all are shaking your heads) that it will cease the attempts. A girl can hope can't she? Thanks for your interest. Your posts always help.

True,
I think I have read most of the things on this forum, but I will reread that. I know that some things can be overlooked when you're concentrating on one issue. Thanks for your help.

M:

Nice job talking to your FWH about this...keep it up, don't bury it...these things take time to heal....his betrayal to you is also probably very painful to him, and being that he is a CA, his best coping mechanism is to NOT discuss it. Seeing your pain, is having to see his pain....that's ok, you shouldn't have to hide your pain.

He will NEVER KNOW WHAT he did to you...Waywards (unless they every become a Betrayed) can never know.....trying to make him "feel" the equivalent pain, WON'T make things better for your relationship.

Stay on top this, get IC help to cope, and continue trying to heal yourself and build a better marriage in the prcoess.....It is not supposed to be easy....if it was, there would be less divorce...Hang in there.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />