Listen to me my Wh had one woman older than me and another 20 yrs younger. I could not compete with a young woman who had a very young figure, so much sex appeal. I have not seen the older woman but I have had dreams - she is 3 yrs older than me. Instead of being critical of your W -you need to start depositing into her love bank. I am sure she is feeling very low about her looks, sex appeal, and hates herself right now. I was planning on suicide after seeing younger woman. I did not blame him for his attraction. I ck'd out this woman and found out she used men, drove by her house and found she needed a new roof. I told him this very inkindly. I stated that she neededc a new roof and all he was to her was a sugar daddy. She was almost 30 yrs younger then him. I said after she got that his a$$ would be down the street. So he went back older woman and continued contact with her. He was so in the fog that he had not noticed how much weight I had lost, my new clothes, that I looked great. Until a friend male of ours asked him why I was loosing so much weight. He thought I had cancer. H was shcoked when he really looked at me. I was half my size. The friend came to me and asked me why I lost so much weight I told him about H's A. He asked me out. Said I looked so goood. He is 10yrs younger. I think he did it to wake H up. He is still good friend to us both and there has been no more asking for a date. I think he was being sweet trying to make me feel better. I needed it at that time tho. So you see the Ow is still there - she is in your W's dreams -nightmares- she is there everytime she looks in the mirror. I hated myself and what ran thru my mind all the time is I am old, I am fat, and I am ugly. Putting that behind me. So see the pain this has caused your wife. She needs more love now then ever. She needs tenderness. Everytime you are critical this keeps the hurt so alive and she feels unworhty.

Did I say that? I DO think it was wrong. I agree it was not appropriate. I am just saying the age issue was not as horrid as Ark says - it was not me taking advantage of some vulnerable girl.

I knew better then and I know even better now. I knew I was vulnerable. I took steps to prevent it, the same steps that have worked all along: not getting too friendly or close, not being alone, making it clear I am married. Obviously it was not enough. I think at some point only having a strong happy marriage will prevent any A.

Wow realtor, thanks for the openness. She would never tell me such things.

Yeah it stinks and that is how I felt only more. I want plastic surgery ect. I don't care she was still so much younger and that is all your wife can see.

bump

Check out the answers to this survey question, encouraging it is not.

>>Once your partner knew about the affair, which of the following best describes the effect on your relationship with your partner/spouse?
Men
Women

It did irreparable damage
73%
54%

We went through a bad patch but are ok
11%
17%

It improved the relationship because it made us address issues we had been avoiding
2%
7%

It improved the relationship because it made me seem more attractive in my partner's/spouse's eyes
2%
6%

The relationship was no better or worse afterwards
12%
20%

No answer
1%
0%

source:
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2005_08_06_times_relationship.htm

Toolman -

The statistics are very sobering, aren't they? I think your marriage is pretty much doomed. I posted awhile ago to your wife, and told her I was afraid she would lose all of her feelings for you.

I'm sad for your children. Sorry this has happened.

Part of me is sad for the children, but the other part is looking forward to showing them (through actions) what a functional relationship can be. I'm sure right now, they are learning that it is ok to [censored] on mom and walk all over her and expect her to just suck it up and keep smiling.

My smile is coming back, but for a different reason. Now, when I'm out in public, I don't feel insecure, fat, or worthless. I'm confident, strong, and valuable. Of course, whenever I see Toolman, that image starts to fade. When I get away from this toxic situation, things will improve. Already, I have better control of my eating,drinking, and overall demeanor. With time and distance, this will continue, I am certain.

My plan (which I've shared with Toolman)is to start the divorce process in spring (when our busy season is over). That way, we'll both be able to spend a lot of time with the kids, and show them we love them unconditionally. I'm not saying the whole split will go easily, but 5 years from now, the children will have adapted, and I'll have the rest of my life ahead of me without all the emotional abuse.

Thanks to all who have helped me through this difficult situation. I am glad to be doing this sooner, rather than later. I don't want to become one of those on this board that has been putting up with the abuse for years through long plan a's and b's. Most people do not change. You can only hope to change yourself, and do it while you still have an ounce of self-esteem.

I can see in her eyes that ima really feels as if she is'abused' and '[censored] on'. And that's really what's important - how ima percieves it - right? I'm simply wanting to get problems out in the open in a straight up way so we can tackle them head on. 'Shoot the messenger,' another one of ima's favorite phrases. Get rid of me to end all her problems. I'm very sad and sorry ima feels seeing me makes her feel worthless. It's too bad I was not more sensitive and diplomatic, because I can see "what" I should work on, I need to get the "how" so its positive and productive, not hurtful. Not easy for anyone when they are beaten down, me included.

"I truly believe that men are no better off divorced than they are if they work to save their marriage, and let's face it, most women are much worse off following a divorce. You're standard of living is going to get clobbered, you're going to face single parenting issues that you've never had to deal with before and your sense of security is most likely going to go out the window. So before you divorce that miserable bum, take another look at him. Remember the man who knelt to propose to you. Try to remember that flutter in your stomach when he took you in his arms. Then believe that you can feel that again. Give him a chance, work on saving your marriage with him, try to meet him at least part of the time on his ground, and chances are there will be a better solution than divorce. But know this, you're going to have to understand how he operates, emotionally and physically. He's going to have to learn the same about you. It won't be a walk in the park at first, but trust me, divorce is worse. And in five years, you're going to be five years down the road one way or the other. You can be five years past your divorce, or you can be five more rewarding years into your marriage. The choice is up to both of you."

Toolman;

As long as one of you continues trying to save the marriage it remains savable. If one of you retains a sliver of "hope" things can recover. You won't know till you try. Remember, from now on you are going to be judged on your actions not your words.

For the good of your kids perhaps taking the pressure off the relationship is a good thing. Work on becoming supportive friends so that when the time comes next spring you can decide whether either one of you still wants a divorce or maybe put it off a few months and see what happens.

You both are smart individuals but as engineers things can be so black and white. You guys are in a definite grey area right now which is likely very uncomfortable for you both. You are likely both so alike it is difficult to separate your own issues from the others (though some are evidently clear).

On another note, I grew up in an affluent area of Detroit and probably 50% of the middle school kids I went to school with were from broken homes. I can tell you there was a huge difference between the kids that came from homes where the divorced parents hated or just resented and had prolonged bitterness towards each other and the ones where they were loving supportive co-parents & friends. Your children are going to be "your" children forever...being "frenemies" does them no good. So no matter how your situation works out...for the good of the kids...you are going to have to work through your interpersonal differences at some time or another. What better time to do it than right now as you work on yourselves????

My wife and I were so disappointed to read your recent updates. I still hope for a successful MB outcome, divorce or otherwise.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

So, I've told Toolman that we need to start planning to start divorce process as soon as we can catch our breath. I said probably April or May, when school is out, might be the best, since it's not so crazy then.
I've said I want us to try to be peaceful and friendly and keep up a good front for the kids. We need to get the house fixed up to sell (no roof, many rooms damaged from hurricanes last year). Toolman seems to be dragging his feet on these issues. Somehow, he thinks that if he doesn't get the house fixed up, I can't leave.
I'm very frustrated, because this is a difficult situation to begin with. I'm finally feeling better about myself and my future. Nothing Toolman says or does has any impact on me anymore, but I'm getting sick and tired of living with my defenses up all the time.
Toolman is only trying to salvage this because he wants to keep the beach house, and have a live-in nanny, and errand-runner. I told him if he tries to trap me here, I'm going to have to pull in the big guns and force his hand--and I'd rather not give any more money to lawyers than we already have for other issues.
I went on the divorce/divorcing site, but didn't see much advice in how to handle this in a friendly way. If anyone has any ideas or experience in making this whole thing go smoother, I'm all ears.

------------------------
Imanotherone 41
Toolman66 (WH)43
OG/OW 21 (probably NC since Sept. sometime)
1 DD-9 1 DS-5
Married 11 years
No SF 4 years. (OG was 17 last time we had SF)

Oh, and before someone says "give it another try" or something like that, please understand that Toolman continues to slip into his old habits--has cleared the history on his computer (at least he had the one time I checked--I really don't check anymore, because I know if he has something to say about me or the OG, he'll be more discrete). I'm just looking forward to the point where I can become just the mother of his children, and not have to worry about any emotional abuse on the personal front.

Well, I forget where you live. In California, you can get a property settlement written up for around $350. You both sign it, and it is just like a business agreement.

You will need a parenting plan, and have to agree on child support. If you both agree, then a divorce shouldn't cost a lot. But somehow I don't see your husband agreeing. He still won't admit that a 43 year old married man dating a 21 year old shouldn't be a big problem for his wife.

Exactly my point, believer. There were so many things that needed to be done to start recovery. We were supposed to spend at least 15? hours a week together, but we were lucky to get 15 minutes a day. WH prefers to spend his evenings at his brothers, and weekends visiting his male friends. He had to write a CHEAT SHEET of my top 3 EN's and put it on the bulletin board. Even then, he still couldn't remember to treat me with respect. Not to say I'm perfect, but I have really busted my a$$ to make things better around here.
Our divorce is going to be difficult and expensive enough, as we have a business together as well. I want to go into it with less animosity than we currently have. Reading back to my earlier posts, I wanted to BURY him when I found out. Now I know that only hurts the kids. But I still deserve to have a life, and a hope to find someone who respects me, wants to talk to me, and wants to make love to me. I'm only going to be on this earth for a short time, and I don't think I'm setting a good example for my kids by being a martyr. People are already noticing a change in me, and I want to keep up the momentum. I can't do this if Toolman trys to keep me trapped in a loveless relationship just for his convenience.

I know exactly how you feel. Everyone deserves to have someone who respects, wants to talk with, make love to and HONOR them. You will find that, don't doubt it.

I'm 57 and just average looking. After my WH left me for a woman 20 years younger, I was devastated. But you know what? He did me a favor. Now I can hardly wait to be divorced.

I still remember the first time a man actually cared about my opinion, and making me happy. It was an old friend, and it felt WONDERFUL, after being ignored for so long.

I'm sorry for your children, but agree that a woman can't keep being the martyr and taking any scraps offered.

Your husband seems to have a sense of entitlement. I wonder if he was ever as invested in the marriage as you.

Believer:

Yes, he certainly did...he did the "world" a favor in releasing you to do the good you have done.

Your Cheating, scum sucking, low down, bottom feeding, lying, pathetic, desperate STBX is actually a hero...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and he doesn't even know it (clueless moron).

Lem

P.S. Sorry for the tourettic lace of your STBX...I sometimes can't help it....I am weak, I admit it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yet another example of Toolman's passive-agressive techniques to keep me here. He says, "I'm taking the kids tonight, to the gym and out to dinner, so you have the evening to yourself."
Well, it's almost 9pm, and he just rolled in with DD9 and DS5. DD has school tomorrow early am, and has been tardy three times, including once this week when Toolman overslept. One more tardy, like tomorrow, and she'll have to serve detention. A straight A+ student in detention because her father is playing games and she is the pawn. She's so worried about being late tomorrow, that she's begged me to wake her at any hour I get up, even if it's 3am.

DS5 is a wreck. Toolman and his worthless brother decided to take them to dinner at 7:30 tonight. DD9 knows this is the bedtime I set for them because of all the oversleeping. DS says "I was very bad, mommy." The he!! he was. Ask a 5 year old to sit in a restaraunt beginning at bedtime, on a school night, and then grade his behavior.

You see, this is all Toolman's way of threatening me. He is showing me that he can't be trusted as a parent. This means I MUST stay in this worthless, meaningless, degrading relationship, or our kids will suffer. Also, since I have a long weekend get-away planned with girlfriends, this is his way of saying, "don't expect the kids to be doing well while you're gone."

Toolman's whole family is well versed in passive-agressive talk, and this is likely the shape of things to come. Either I give in and say, "Yes, toolman, I'll stay and take your abuse for the kids sake." or I'm dooming my children to a neglectful life.

I am so sick of this bullsh!t!! I can't see anywhere in the Harley's where we're all supposed to be the lambs so Toolman has his way. I want out, and I want it now. I guess this is the straw for me. Nothing will EVER improve while I sit here and take it.

If any of you can offer words of encouragement, I'd appreciate it.

Time to get your daughter an alarm clock. She is old enough to wake up herself. I'm not excusing your husband's actions though.

Why does he want you around anyway? Is it just that he doesn't want to pay child support?

Hi Believer--
Forgot to mention that both kids have been in our bed for months. Since WH and I can't stand the thought of accidentally bumping our toes into each other, we haven't put up much of a fight. Sometimes the kids get our bed and one of us sleeps on the sofa. Very disfunctional, I know. WH has always had this thing about alarm clocks--he refuses to use them. Says he'll wake when his body is ready to wake. It works out ok, except when we're both so stressed and exhausted from fighting that we can't sleep at night.

WH doesn't want to get rid of me because I'd be too expensive to replace. Plus, we'd have to sell our beach home, and move to the mainland, which he detests. He'd rather live in misery with me, go surf when he wants and hang with the boys. I'll take care of the sick kids, and bedtimes, and anytime he wants to go off on a trip. Why should he want to get rid of me? He's got me right where he wants me. Even now, when he tells me money is tight, I think about asking my mom for a loan. Funny, except that he spent thousands on his little girl (OW 21). Flew her out to a vacation on catalina island for his birthday (WH 43). Spent a fortune on cell phone bills, and fancy hotels, and other lost work opportunities. Yet, I still clip coupons and buy my clothes at Walmart. Why should he give that up? I'm the one who has to run for my dear life!!