My boyfriend and I have been dating each other on and off for about 2 years. I recently moved to Georgia and he and I got back in touch with each other and he decided to move here to start over again with me. At first, everything was going really great, but then after getting his two new jobs here, he has met these guys and all he wants to do is hang out with them after work every week. First of all, in my opinion, these guys are a bad influence on him because all they like to do is drink and go out. (which my boyfriend NEVER used to like) One guy is married with kids, the others are college students and are single.

I am concerned because every week my boyfriend and I will get into a heavy disagreement about him going out. I don't mind him having friends, and I guess you could say that I am a little bit envious of him because I don't have any girls that I could hang out with, but I still don't think that it is right that he goes to bars/night clubs/or restaurants without me. I have always grown up believing that when you are in a committed and serious relationship, wherever the boyfriend goes (except for work of course), the girlfriend should go. But, my boyfriend, he's of the Spanish culture, and he told me that he grew up different and was taught that the woman is supposed to stay home. He keeps telling me that "He is who he is" and that "He can't change just like that". Which I totally understand. But, if he loves me as much as he says he does, wouldn't he change, even if it were only a little bit? I could see if we weren't living together and were just dating and not serious about each other, but that's just not the case.

Then again, maybe there is no issue here and I am just complaining for no reason? Maybe it is healthy to let him have his "boys night out" once a week?

I really need some advice. I love him truly with all my heart and I really want this relationship to work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, Megan:

I don't understand, do you two live together currently?

Whatever the situation, everyone of course needs time to be with same sex friends. Sounds though like your friend and you don't agree on how much is appropriate. Quite honestly, you don't seem terribly secure that he is really into you. (It doesn't sound like he is, imho.) And don't blame your guy's friends - *he* is the one choosing to go out w them as much as he does.

It really doesn't matter how you *think* a relationship should be, your friend is showing you the kind of relationship he's willing to give you. Do you like what you see? Because it doesn't sound like he has any intention of changing just to make you happy. When people are defensive about behavior, the behavior is not going away any time soon. You can choose to live with it or not, but it's not going away! Your friend shouldn't have to change for you really, you should just find someone who's more compatible and more into you and your needs.

I'd worry about you living with this person b/c I think when people live together, they feel as though there is more of a commitment there than there really is, esp women.

Don't hate me for saying all this, I know it wasn't what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth as far as I can tell from the information you've given.

Best of luck -

I do not think there is anything wrong with a boy's night out once a week.

What concerns me is you boyfriend's statement that the woman is supposed to stay home--that this is part of his Spanish culture.

I am also concerned that you have made no girl friends.

I have been happily married for probably longer than you have been alive. When my husband and I were single we both went out once a week with our respective friends. As we got older we both became less interested in partying with our peers.

Enjoy your boyfriend but also enjoy this fun time in your life when you do not have anything holding you down. Try to balance the two.

Thank you both for your honest opinions. Even though it is NOT what I wanted to hear, I truly appreciate it. Thank you both again!

With all due respect, I will disagree with the previous posters.

If you think that marriage is somehow going to change your BF, and he will magically stop doing things that annoy you or that you don't agree with, you are in for some serious shell shock.

This is a *perfect* opportunity to apply the MB principles to your relationship, and if it looks untenable, exit gracefully w/o the messiness of divorce.

That means the RC, the 15 hours/week of UA time, the application of POJA (which woudl certainly seem to apply here).

To use pieta's argument then, there is no purpose for MB's, we should all just get divorced and find more "compatible" people. Sorry, but that's not the way it works, and yes, real change is possible.

The thing that really confuses me about this situation (I should've mentioned it before) is that he NEVER used to be like this. He and I ALWAYS used to go EVERYWHERE together. He told me that he's "always been like this" but really, that is not true. He's never been like this before. Thank you again.

Thank you Jaye for your response. I truly believe that people can change. It just takes time, but even a little bit of change makes a difference.

lap,

Most people don't mind their SOs going out with friends from time to time....AS LONG AS they aren't being neglected. Does he take you out, or is all his recreational time being spent with the guys now? If that's the case....I don't blame you for not feeling so keen about his nights with the boys. Rather than arguing about his boy nights.....negotiate for more time for you so that you don't resent his time with the boys. If he keeps giving them the majority of his recreational time....consider that a big red flag....and think twice before making this permanent. If you have no priority in his life now....don't expect that to improve with marriage. And any group that consistently excludes the ladies, never allows them along....will not be friends of your relationship/marriage. Good boundaries demand "friends" that don't undermine the primary relationship.

I think you should ask him what's going to change once you get married. What he thinks your life should be like.
I believe once you're married no more party nights except once in a while. He's going to be married to you. Not his friends. I don't think it's right what he's doing.
I personally don't want to be the little house wife he's trying to make you out to be. No offence if you're ok with that. I was raised differently. I don't mean to sound disrespectful to you or your b/f.

-R

Wow... when I read your post, I actually told my boyfriend who is in the other room, that I could have written this post.

I moved in with my boyfriend (fiancee actually) last June, after being together for four years. Before that, I never noticed him going out with his friends very much... it wasn't an issue. But, when we did move in together, I noticed it much more! I was devistated that he would go out on his own, with his friends and leave me home alone. He is Spanish, as well. I guess over the years, he has learned that the woman should stay at home. But, I'm not Spanish. He has learned that as well.

So... I think that you should not mind if he goes out once a week with his all male friends. If there were couples going out, and you were being left at home, I would worry but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think guys need a time to do their guy things... with each other. No women. This doesn't mean anything to do with other women, but usually just with sports, work, etc. It isn't personal. After I 'let' my boyfriend go out without the arguements, I even found that he appreciated me more! It was really refreshing! Our relationship (which seemed to be ok) even got better!

He has become more loving, understanding, and in tune to spending me time as well.

So, good luck. And, if you would like to talk about anything else, I am here! I get you!

Last of all, people are people... and I have learned something really important. They DO NOT change. Even with time, even with promises, no changes are going to take place. So, with whoever you are with, you have to decide if you love them how they are or not. If the answer is 'not', then you need to find someone else who is someone you appreciate just as they are. There is no right or wrong here, just compatibility. If you can deal with the worst of their behavior and still love them... then you are set for life! If you can't deal with it... face the reality that they won't change.

This is complete and utter baloney. And it's an affront to the kazillions of H's and W's that have knuckled down and made the changes that restored and rekindled relationships all over.

If Change wasn't possible, there would be no point in having marriagebuilders.

I'm with Jaye...people can and do change. However they don't generally change without time, committment and work...and they have to want to put in what it takes to change. It seems your BF is telling you he doesn't want to change. Big red flag.

Kathi

Oh my gosh! Something told me to go back to this site to see if there had been anymore replies to my post, and look! I couldn't believe it when I read your reply! I know that your reply was in November, but I hope that you get this message. I don't really have a problem anymore (well sometimes!) with my boyfriend going out with his friends AS LONG AS he calls to tell me that he is and that he doesn't drink! The BIG problem that I have with him now is drinking and driving. Actually, a few nights ago he got drunk with his friend Abel and passed out over at his house. I waited up till 6 o'clock in the morning hoping to see his car pull in the driveway soon but he NEVER came home that night. He came home the next AFTERNOON telling me "I got drunk", "I'm never gonna do it again", and "I was going to call you, but I knew that you'd be mad". I was devastated because I NEVER thought that he would've done that to me! I know that no one is perfect, but sheesh! He could have at least called and said "I'm drunk and I won't be coming home tonight".

You're right though about what you said: Do I love him enough to accept the things that he does even though it bothers me sometimes. My answer is Yes, I do love him. And I can accept him. I just have this fear of him cheating or doing drugs. I haven't met any of his friends and I'm still waiting on that one.

Well, thank you so much for replying and maybe we could chat by email? I don't know anyone else who has been (or used to!) through the same things I have! My email is [email]labuenachava1985@yahoo.com.[/email]

I hope I hear from you again!

You haven't met any of his friends???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

He stays out all night, morning and the next day without so much as a phone call???? And you believe that he just got drunk and "knew you'd be mad"??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And, you're going to marry him? I hope it's a very long engagement. Good luck.

Lap, I'm very sorry you're having such a tough time of it, but, IMHO, YOU should seriously think about what you're doing.

I mean if you're going through all this stuff now and you're not even married to this guy. I shudder to think what your life is going to be like once you do get married.

I don't mean to be judgmental my dear but, from what you're telling us, I don't think he's ready for marriage or any kind of serious relationship.

I would advise you to go out and make some friends. Make a life for yourself that does not revolve around him and who knows, maybe when he sees that you're not depending on him for your happiness it might wake him up.

Again this is just my opinion.

Good luck!

MND2K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LAP,
I'm with MND2K. Go out and start makiing friends of your own and building a life that doesn't depend on him. If you stay with this guy, you are in real big trouble before it's over. The things you have to put up with will keep getting worse, not better. I believe you learned to accept the way things were because someone told you that was what you needed to do. I used to be the same way. I was married and every time I asked for advice and got it, I followed it - hoping things would come around the way they needed to be. Boy was I in for a shock. That's not how it worked - at all!!!!
My XH and I went down to Orlando in Sept. 03 and went to Dr. Harley's seminar. He must have thought that going to that event was going to make everything be what it was supposed to be. IT DIDN'T. He wasn't willing to put the effort into the relationship that was required to make it good for both of us. He expected me to change, but didn't want to do any changing himself. I stayed with this man until I lost so much weight from the stress that I looked anorexic, and started having seizures from the stress. It took Dr. Harley letting me know that with him refusing to alter his independant behavior and follow the POJA it wouldn't get any better and I would actually be better off divorced. It was THE HARDEST thing I ever had to do in my life, but I managed. I filed for divorce and for a while really struggled to make it through. But over the past two years I've grown to like/love myself, and am back up to a healty weight for my height. Now I can have friends of my own. I'm a little bit like you in the friends department. Not many women like me, but I finally found out what was at the bottom of all that too. A male friend of mine just explained it to me this past weekend. He said the "secure" females don't seem to have any problem with me. I'm no threat to them. (I've been told by both males and females that I am very beautiful - something I don't see when I look in the mirror. That it was "natural beauty' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />'" both physical and inner beauty.) And yes, if I step into a bar all the male faces turn my way, then and from time to time while I'm there. But, what the females don't see (except the ones that know me outside of the bar) is that, just because I can have a conversation w/the guys doesn't mean anything is going on between us. As soon as the cars, tractors, or whatever comes up - my looks disappear. I grew up on a farm in SE Al so I know what lots of them are talking about. I've worked on cars, mecahnically, worked with tractors on the farm, and I do something that most women frown at - I dip. It beats smoking. The men forget all about the fact that I'm even a woman when they start talking about that stuff, which really makes it easier for me - thankfully they're not all over me trying to get me drunk and I can enjoy my time talking and when it comes my turn, singing. The ones that do try all that stuff usually end up getting their feelings hurt just a little when they find out I'm not looking for a man. If there was some place I could sing karaoke that alcohol wasn't served I'd go, but there isn't so when I want to sing - that's where I go. I've made a few true friends there and lots of friends in passing. Like I said before, the women that don't feel threatend don't have any trouble making friends w/me. In fact, they usually come up to me just to talk if they come in and see me before I see them. You must be a pretty woman, otherwise it would be a lost easier to make female friends. If you can find one or two that you work or live near and the two of you have something in common - go for it. Try asking them if the two of you can go out for lunch some time or maybe go to the movies or something. Start building a relationship with them. It will ease the pain, and if you do get up the guts to leave this guy it'll make the process a whole lot easier. Don't stay with someone that "continues" to abuse you and your relationship until you get in the same shape I did. If he truly "cares" for you and want a healthy relationship with you, then he will be motivated enough to try making changes. Also, I don't know if you've read any of Dr. Harley's books or not, but if you haven't you might try reading BUYERS, RENTERS, and FREELAODERS. Sounds a little like you have a freeloader on your hands and permanent, healthy relationships DO NOT happen with freeloaders. Read it and listen carefully to what it has to say.
Best of Luck,
Becki

This is a huge huge HUGE indicator of what may be to come. If you think this acceptable, you are letting yourself in for a lot of trouble.........It's been 2 months now since you last posted......are you really seeing any signs of change.

[color:"red"]If not, keep going at a flat-out run.........'DANGER' 'DANGER'[/color]

This thread interests me for several reasons. One, I think it is utter baloney that people change. Yes, they can change the way they ACT, but their basic natures and temperaments, the way they view things etc is a given, and will not change no matter how often they read books or see counsellors.

This thread also interests me because, as the mother of a nineteen year old daughter who has just moved into a flat with her boyfriend, I have stressed to both of them how important it is for them to do things together AND with their friends. I think that a person needs to keep their individuality when in a committed relationship, or this relationship can get stale very quickly.

However there are limits to how often people should go out without each other - if they do this too much I think it is a sign that they are getting bored and wanting the 'single' life of freedom again. One of the many problems of co-habitation - which IMO is not viewed, especially by men, as real committment in the way that marriage is.

I totally agree with needsfixing last post. It's healthy for both of you to have your friends but with limits. The activity is important too. So raquetball night with the boys is VERY different than going out and getting drunk.

Do NOT, do NOT let him pull the latin male card on you. I'm not at the beginning of a divorce with a latin male who has pulled that card for a very long time - strip clubs are a "necessity" for men, going out and drinking, looking at other women, porn, and now apparently sex with other women is as well as "latin male" need.

If you stay together and have children, the wife at home stuff gets WORSE, not better, leading to isolation and can lead to a very depressed mom at home with the kids while her husband is out doing his "necessary latin male" stuff. Get out now. It does not matter how much you love him. He is already treating you with disrespect. I had friends say that to me for years and I wish I had listened. Get out now.