I came home and told H I had gotten an application for evening and weekend work at Barnes and Noble b/c the separation was hurting our finances. He said, "Our finances will be clearer after the divorce." I said, "I don't talk about divorce, I talk about marriage recovery." He got quiet and said, "I'm going to have to file, aren't I. I had hoped we could come to an understanding together." And I said, "You do what you want, Greg." And then he left.

So then I called him on his cell (bad, bad, right?) and said "are you okay?" and he said, "I'm upset about our conversation. We're going to be at an impasse, and it's going to be uglier and messier than we wanted. You want one thing and I want another." And I said, "I've been talking to therapists and reading about people who have been where you are." And he said, "Oh yeah, how do they feel?" And I said, "I don't want to tell you how you feel, but these people have felt confused and guilty and scared, and I want you to know that you will be returning to an environment of forgiveness and acceptance. I want you to do what makes you happy." And he said, "who are these therapists?" And I said, "people who believe in marriage and family." And I told him some cute things the kids were doing and I rambled some more about changes and being committed to himm and the marriage and then he said "well, I've gotta go" and I said, "okay, bye."

Oh, god. Is he going to file? Is this just fog? Have I blown it? Since I started Plan A, we've been dancing around the elephant in the room and we both know it, but I'm starting to feel tired and scared and sad. He asked for the site I've been going to, and I said I would tell him if he was serious about recovery. I had mentioned the divorce busting site and he said he had looked at it, which surprised me. I had assumed he wanted nothing to do with recovery, but I guess maybe he did.

I'm sobbing here now. I'm so scared. Can someone please help me??

Hoops:

What do you specifically want help with? Plan A or PLan B.......Divorce preparation? Someone to tell you that he will come back and not to worry.....?

You did a very nice job telling him you only want to talk about recovery and not divorce. Bravo...

I suspect that the crux of this issue with him tonight is that he sees your getting a job application at Barnes and Noble as not "in line" with what he wants....how dare you upset what he had planned? He is mad and upset because he doesn't have the guts and the "sack" to get the Divorce ON HIS OWN with you fighting him along the way.....your reluctance to go against the divorce makes him upset, because as most Cowards, he didn't expect you to fight him on this.

You cannot make him do anything....if he TRULY wants this divorce, there is NOTHING you can do tp PHYSICALLY STOP HIM...."crying" and being "clingy" will not help your cause....now having said that, many Cheaters here don't have the guts and will to file and proceed with the divorce....MAKE HIM GET IT...MAKE HIM DO ALL THE WORK.....This is your best chance at stopping the "logistics" of the divorce....

You stay in your Plan, you do what you have to do to make improvements in YOURSELF...with no INTENTION that it will bring your Wayward back.....that may or many not happen....and you have to realize that. Me sitting here telling you that he will come back would not be turgful, even if that likely happens. You need to be armed with knowledge and strenth here, not false "its ok"....As an aside, most people who are cheated on eventually get another chance to win their WS back...I strongly suspect you will be no different.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />...but that will not be good enough for you now.

Noone can come on and tell you with any credibility and tell for sure that your marriage WILL be saved....we all hope for that ofcourse, and evidence dictates that following these plans will IMPROVE your chances for a marital recovery...there are no guarantees for any of this, and anyone who says otherwise is drinking the "kool-aid".....

My opinion and advice to you...is keep up what you are doing...get the job for the family fincances, as your WH will not in all likelihood be responsible for the family...DON'T talk divorce if YOU don't want one.....and keep up the Plan's to improve yourself......

If you follow those simple things, you CAN NOT go wrong...even if your WH does NOT come back....that's what this has to be eventually about if you are to GUARANTEE a SUCCESS. I hope you can get your marriage and family back in the process.

Goodluck

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

When the onus of filing falls on the Wayward Spouse, it is unlikely in most cases that they'll rush right into it. It makes them stare the hard facts of the reality of their actions right in the eyes.

Make sure you have read Surviving an Affair, and you study it like you would for a test, so you know how to deal with this intellectually, rather than emotionally.

A great book for you to read with your WH is After an Affair. It will give you both a great deal of insight into the dynamics of an affair, but better yet, will explain to your WH how much damage has been inflicted on you as a Betrayed Spouse.

Keep Marriage Builders to yourself for a while, so you don't "tip your hand" on your plan for saving your marriage.

Plan A is hard. Read all you can on it. Learn to emotionally detach from your H's foggy remarks. Fill his LB$ at every opportunity, and completely avoid LoveBusters. Evaluate yourself with honest sincerity, and see what you might have been doing that might not have been conducive to a healthy marriage. Plan A is about making changes in yourself, that are likely to make you more attractive to your wayward spouse.

Don't give up hope, this is a long, long, trying process. Impatience will only bring you dissapointment. Hunker down for the long haul, and use your time carefully and lovingly. Keep posting for advice and to get answers to your questions, or to vent, or to share your successes. There are many kind and compassionate people here to help you along the way.

Best wishes,
SD

No, I wasn't crying and clingy -- I've done enough of that in the past two months to last two lifetimes. But I don't know if calling him back and getting into a relationship dicussion was a mistake. But then I think, "Geez, we're *separated*! He wants a divorce! It seems a little silly to avoid all relationship discussions." I think I've been reading this site and thinking about this too much -- I feel like I'm on a tightrope and the slightest misstep or miscalculation is going to blow it.

But you're right. If he wants a D, he'll file. But I have to not be terrified of that, and I'm actually getting there. If he really wanted one two weeks ago, he would have filed then. He knows I'm "up to something" -- he knows I've been reading message boards and he knows I've got a strategy. I hope that he's more conflicted and unsure than he lets on, but all the FWSs say that when they're in the fog they aren't unsure.

Patience is my weak point, and I have to try to be patient and not freak out on him b/c I know that will drive him away. But it's so HARD to not ask him about his plans, his feelings, the future.

Thank you so much for your thoughts! These encounters with him just leave me shaking. I think I absolutely have to go through with the B&N application to show him I meant what I said. His grand love affair is starting to cost us, and I'm trying to show that I'm living in reality land and willing to do some retail job to help clean up the mess he's created.

Hang in there, Hoopsie. It's going to be hard on you for a long while but you've got folks out here who are concerned for you. Lean on them whenever you need to. My prayers are with you tonight.

By the way, it is my personal opinion and advice that you NOT share your "support" board while your WH is still so active in the affair and NOT truly interested in recovery.

This is my OWN opinion, and many (all?) will perhaps disagree.

There is alot of stregth and knowledge to be gained from reading here, and our WH mahy not be in the "frame" of mind to allow the stuff here to help him, and may actually perhaps use it against you.

Just my .02.

Lem

I've been where you are. The day my x filed, I actually told him that my goal was not to persue a divorce but to work on my marriage. He ended up, later, filing a Petition For Reconciliation. However, several years later, I ended up filing because I could no longer cope with the insanity in my life.

In addition to the Harley's materials, you might want to read "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson.

Go for the job and start becoming more independent in your actions. Not with any attitude, but with an air of self-confidence that makes him wonder what you are up to.

If you take a job, then he'll have to pick up some of the care of the kids, which will affect his time with the OW. That's a good thing.

Start dressing up a notch. Carefully applied makeup, like you were going out on a date. Get a couple of new outfits, "for the new job". Make sure he notices you at every turn.

Your positive and creative actions can make him turn back towards you, and away from the OW, which is the purpose of Plan A. Keep him continually off balance and wondering what you are up to!!! Don't be dishonest, but be vague about your activities, and do things unexpectedly to make him think what life might be totally without you.

Have you fully exposed the A? Have you kept in touch with the OW's Husband? What are her plans? All of these things are important in your efforts.

Best wishes,
SD

I agree with the others Hoopsie, it is probably best to keep this site to yourself for awhile. I have not even shared this site with my xwh. Although I am almost at the point of sharing this information with him, because he has reached the point in our recovery to not worry about him using the site against me. You see while your w/h is still confused, you don't want to tip your hand on what you are planning to do to stop his affair. All the posters here will be your best secret weapon to help you develop a plan to help stop the affair.

I am so sorry for your pain. I have been there, not long ago. It has only been three months since dd. Keep strong, and work on making yourself the best person you can be, and realize you can and will be ok if your w/h divorces you. When fear is no longer a factor, and you begin to realize there is a life beyond your marriage, you will then have the ability to act more confident, and not so needy, which w/s hate.

Keep up the good work.

K.D.'s Heartbreak

***I think I absolutely have to go through with the B&N application to show him I meant what I said. His grand love affair is starting to cost us, and I'm trying to show that I'm living in reality land and willing to do some retail job to help clean up the mess he's created.***

Bull's-Eye!

You've got it exactly right.

Active WS always get this insane fantasy in their heads that their single lifestyle won't hurt their families any and everyone will adjust, and even if the two of you do get divorced it'll be okay and you can still be friends.

Like you said, you need to bust up this illusion right now. The man stands to lose his family. He is making all of you suffer right now. You will NOT be his friend if he divorces you. Who in their right mind needs a friend who lies to you, cheats on you and abandons you?
Mulan

-Do you have kids?

If so, odds are very high he wasn't upset about you working... he is pissed because if you are at work, he has to be home watching the kids. No more affair time each nite. (unfortunately, be ready for her to be finding some way to sneak over...communicate with him during this time, if this is when they would normally hook up.)

Hang in there.

Hoopsie wanted to say -you are doing a great job. I was terible at first but only found this site after I found out about WH A. I exploded like a volcano. Calm is the best and do not let him know about this site. Get the job - he will have to help. It will hurt the A. I would be careful about OW coming around your home tho.

No, this is a long-distance affair. He talks to her for *hours* a night, and they have been flying back and forth for long weekends.

His plan -- or fantasy -- is that we will get divorced, and they will somehow find a way to be together and live in the land of milk and honey for the rest of their lives. Maybe she'll move here and leave her kids, maybe he'll quit his job and move there.

I am trying to do two things: 1) show him the enjoyable family life he will be missing; and 2) show him that his actions have consequences that I will not passively accept, i.e., I'm going to get a job because I'm worried about money and he will have to come over every night to watch the kids.

My fear is that these consequences will just galvanize him to go ahead and get the ball rolling and file. But I guess I can't stop that. If he wants to blow up his life, fine. Does this sort of thing help the fog lift if he's deep into the affair?

Have you exposed to her H?

I wasn't around last night, but it is a new day. How are you today?

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Her husband found out about the affair back in June and gave her an ultimatum. The OW chose my H and started divorce proceedings. They are fairly far along in the process now. I knew none of this until my H revealed the affair on his own to me in Sept.

I haven't talked to her H although I know that their divorce is real b/c at one point I snooped my H's messages. Since the OW is getting a divorce to be with my H, that puts even more pressure on him to divorce me and live up to the sacrifices she's made.

My situation just seems like everything that could be wrong is: 1) a long-distance affair so no reality intruding; 2) it's with a high-school girlfriend so he paints it as a "lost love reunion," not a tawdry affair; 3) she's getting a divorce; 4) he has no interest at all in working on the marriage; 5) he's moved out.

Has anyone seen something like recover?

I vote with LEM, do not share this site with him. He's not in a frame of mind to use it effectively, but only as a tool to use against you. This may change at some future date, but for now do not reveal this site to him. Say you've just been 'doing some reading'...

Hang tuff!, and please take care - Dru

You might point out to him at some point how absurd his feelings are on this.

He didn't like that you were looking at a job because you needed to do so because finances were strained with the seperation...what the heck did he think you were gonna have to do in a D? If he was using any kind of logic, he wouldn't have said anything, because you're being more financially independent would actually make the D easier.

Obviously, he's still not rational. You've made it clear from the beginning that you're not going to file, you're not willing to divorce...so why on Earth would he have felt like this was making matters worse? He was hoping that you'd file for him or something? Sheesh.

My position has always been that if he divorces me, I am taking the children and moving to my hometown across the country. At one point early on, I told him I would do this as soon as the D was in the works and I would do a divorce with him long-distance.

So when I said I was applying for a job, he said, "so you're not moving?" and I said, "I'm simply getting a short-term retail job because this separation is straining our finances." And that's when he said finances would be easier after the divorce and he would have to go ahead and file, etc., etc.

I'm not sure how much the reality of the $$ issue if we D is hitting him. We would sell the house, but the real-estate market is slow especially in the winter. It's possible we would lose money on it. He would have to pay me thousands in child support. That would mean he would have to keep his big-city job, which means he could not move to be with the OW. And he is getting a lot of debt from all his plane tickets to see the OW, plus the credit card debt we're racking up because of the separation.

But what's a little $$ when you're talking about true love?

I'm not sure what you're snooping revealed. But, both of these people (your H and the OW) are liars and cheaters. Therefore, you can not trust anything either one of them are saying.

You need to actually speak to OW's Husband yourself. You need to be the one who calls him. Don't you think he'd be calling you if he knew? You don't think he might have a few choice words for you about your husband being with his wife?

My guess. He doesn't know. Or, he knew something went on, but doesn't still know. I could be all wrong on that...but, something still feels off in this whole story. The debt your amassing now will catch up to you. If he keeps going...the money crises will be the end of his affair, which isn't too uncommon.... and guess who gets to deal with a heart-broken fws, and a massive debt, and the uncertainty of your own future... yep, you do.

CALL HER HUSBAND. VERIFY HE KNOWS. VERIFY THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF THE DIVORICE (actual papers filed in the court).

Hang in there.