(previous post - need support and advice please help..)Thanks for the advice.

When done reading, please tell me if it is considered a PA or just a EA... or doesnt it matter it was an affair no matter what?

he opened up to me.I dont know if i should believe him or not, but Here is how it went:

I picked up a bottle of malt liquor, he didnt want it.
We ate.
He went to the basement and i followed him.
I sat on his lap facing him (with no intentions of it going anywhere) looked into his eyes and said" we are talking tonight" he said "I am not ready for this" I told him it has been long enough it needs to be discussed end of story.

He said he will be up in a few mins.
He was down there for about 15 mins.
came into the bedroom was hesitant to sit next to me on the bed.
It took a few mins.
to get him to sit next to me.
I took out my list from my investigating and began to ask. here is what i got:

He never slept with OW.

They just talked. It was not about sex.

She was never in his car.

They did meet and he drove around in her car talking.

They made out on 4 different occasions.

She did not touch him anywhere, and he did not touch her anywhere, neither of them tried to go any further..

They did go to bars together. He did not take her out to dinner.

It did start before i left for florida vacation.
He said it is not her fault.

She was in my house only one time to meet him to go out, but she felt uncomfortable and left.

She did not buy him anything.. and he never bought her anything.

He did have feelings for her, and somewhat still does.

There has been no contact with her and him, and he said she told him that i went to her neighbor, when i was looking to see what house she lived in, and told the neightbor that she is "screwing" my husband. She wasnt too happy with that. (OH WELL!)


he said that he lost some feelings for me, because of how we have not been getting along for awhile etc.

I told him that we will talk each night, no matter what it is. He said his wall is up, i told him it needs to come down. he agreed to try.

I told him that we need to make sure that this does not happen again.

I already filled out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire, told him he needs to fill out his. He said he will.
he is still getting his own place come Dec 1st when we have to move out of the house we are renting. He is not moving with me in the new place.

He says that we need a break, that it will bring us closer together, time to miss each other... (i want to tell him the day i am all moved in, that there is to be no contact with me, (i dunno, maybe phone conversations) uless he moves in and wants to work on our marriage.

He did say he feels uncomfortable still to touch me, because of what happened i assumed between him and OW.
and, that i am almost due to have the baby. He said we should be ok after she is born in Jan.

What do I do now??????? ANY SUGGESTIONS.. advice.. help, where do i go from here?????

The main reason he says he is not moving with me is cause it is across from his moms, and that he does not want to bring any arguments there.. that the break will help bring us closer. I did tell him it will not solve any of the problems we have,, they are still going to be there whether he moves with me or not and that we have to work on getting thru them together.

OK...none of this makes any sense to me.

Why would he be uncomfortable in touching you if absolutely nothing happened between him and OW?

Does his story jive with the information you've already gathered?

Tell him this point blank...that a 'break between the two of you' is NOT going to help your marriage at all. All it will do is let him see OW without anyone stopping him...which you will NOT allow.

The only way to fix your marriage is to fix it...not run away from it. And the first step in that on his part is to make the choice to try...and then to do the things he needs to do in order to fix it. Tell OW to go away forever...start counseling so that the two of you can understand better why he did what he did, and what changes you both need to make to make things better.

It doesn't matter if it was EA or PA...the damage is done, and the ONLY way that he can rebuild his feelings for you is to end contact with OW and spend time with you...tell him that. Spending time 'alone' (which he wouldn't be, and he should at least just admit it to himself) would do nothing but fuel the seperation between you.

I wouldn't believe that you got the full truth on this run...I seriously think it's going to take time for that to come out. Right now, do NOT agree to let him live somewhere else. Tell him he CAN make things right...but seperating and contact of any kind with OW is NOT the way to do it. Suggest a few of the books around here that might help...HNHN, SAA, etc...

Good luck friend.

lies, lies, lies.

BELIEVE NOTHING HE SAYS.

1. He is having an affair.
2. HE IS HAVING SEX
3. HE IS HAVING SEX
4. HE IS PLANNING MORE SEX.
5. You get to make the choices now.

He doesn't want to move across from his mom because she will catch him in what he is doing.

Everything will not be alright/better when you have the baby. Children make relationships harder, not easier. This statement shows how naive(sp?) he really is.

btw, did I tell you he IS HAVING SEX? I'm sorry, but you have to accept that before you can move forwards in what you need to do.

Hang in there.

Oh Boy.
Ok he is in the Fog so deep. He does not want to live with you near Mom's because he is still in the A. He made out with her 4 times but nothing happened -give me a break. Are you Plan A'ing? You are having a baby in Jan and he is treating you like this ? Are you going to IC ? Have you exposed this A? Is OW married? If so expose to her H and family. Does his mother know -she needs to know.

Like the other poster said, I'd believe just about nothing that he says. If he says they made-out 4 times, it was probably 12. If he said they never touched each other while making out, HE'S LYING. That's ridiculous....

BTW, the baby makes everything harder not easier. Y'all won't be able to spend 1 on 1 time. Finances change. Sex life changes. EVERYTHING CHANGES. To me his statement smells of a cake-eating monster saying, let me screw around for another month then I'll think about joining you...

What hard core evidence do you have?

Oh and PS... They at minimum made out, that clasifies as a PA........

I have to agree, I think he is having PA with OW. On Dday, my WBF told me that he and OW had meet up a few times and kissed but that was it, turns out that they were having sex and were even doing it in our home (I was away visiting my family in NZ with our DD who was only 10 months old).

He is deep into fogland. Our lease also came up on our flat and he didn't renew, I had moved out to give him some room, living apart is not a good solution, it allows him to run away from things and his responsibilities and to continue the A.

Babyangle I am worried about you. Do you have any family you can move in with. Having a baby is taxing and your going to need help. With your H is in this A he is not there for you. Why wait till Jan I would go into Plan B for you and the baby's sake. I am so sorry this is happening now at such ajoyous time in your life. You must put you and the baby first. When are you due? I think in this situation I would go into Plan B. He is deep in this fog. I would not have SF with him - std"s? Not good for you or baby. Please keep us updated.

He says due to the A, And that I am pregnant. He is afraid to have sex with me, it might hurt the baby.


Most of the information came from his friend at work. I dealt with him coming in all hrs in the am. Not being where he said he was being.. we have problems in communication for a while.. he was sleeping on the couch for a while before my vacation with my son.

I will tell him all the advice i receive today... i will even type it out again so i dont forget.
(if i dont get home too late from working on my school paper...me putting time into online school at work is major time/space issue, our home phone is shut off.)

OW works with him in the wharehouse. I told him to quit his job ( I make more than he does anyway) he said he just got his vacation time in for after the baby is born but he will think about it. He has to pay child support for his son, and cant fall behind. He swares up and down him and OW dont talk to each other anymore. His friend from work (one who told me stuff) says OW is flirting with another co-worker.. not sure if i can believe that. (what else can i do about that sitch)



Do I continue to question him now and then whether or not sex was involved?? would that push him away?? I have no hard evidence that it happened. Is he going to ever tell me himself? he is one to hold things in and not let it out unless caught red handed.

I will look into the books, i already have all the info from MB Printed out and ready for him and I to go over.

He swares it is over, that he never had sex.. the more i asked and pleaded for the truth the more frustrated he got, come to think of it, this is the second time he said this "do you want me to lie to you and tell you I did, or should i just do it and then tell you" what am I supposed to do with these comments??? I am sorry, this is just so aggrivating...
since before last night he tried so hard to make me believe she was not at the house, that her car was not parked in teh alley. It took me going to a neighbor and asking questions for H to believe i knew the truth.

He also said that because her and I always talk ( i knew his mom before him and i met, they are not that close..and I tell her too much of our problems.. (i told him it is better that i go to her, and not another man, since he wont listen to what i have to say when we do have problems etc.) again.. our big problem IS communication.

I mentioned this to him as well as his past experiences.. with ex, ex, gf pregnancy, he messed around and left her (only 17 or 16 yrs old he was at time,, still no excuse i say..) after baby was born. He has no contact with first son.

Ex-fiance, pregnancy with second son, he messed around and after second son was born 2 mos later they split up. 3 yrs. later him and i met. (I found out most of this within the last year or so) he pays child support and has visitation.


I told him that my instincts still tell me more happened.. he is looking at me eye to eye and swares nothing more did.. this is hard..i begged him to tell me, if he did that, no matter what i will forgive him, i wont forget, but i will forgive to save our marriage...i can see me excepting it on my own, do i need to hear him tell me it happend to have closure?? or is this going to continously haunt me until he actually admit it happened..etc.

i will, and i will use the advice everyone gives me.. this is where most of my support comes from .. his mom just tells me to walk away.. but i want to save our marriage... its easier said than done.

Please follow my posts and keep up with me, it makes me feel that i am not alone. and i look forward to reading everyones posts..

Ok...

Let me see if I read this right. Your H has two children with 2 different women already? And with both of those ladies, during those pregnancies, he started new relationships with different women? Is this true? Am I reading that right...

DON'T YOU SEE THE PATTERN WITH YOURSELF?

In those relationships, he admittedly had sex with those ladies... do you see an adult who has had sex ever really 'making out'? Maybe the first time they get together, they just grope a bit...but, the second time... they get the job done.

And yes, he can look you in the eye, hold your hand, and even have sex with you, while looking you in the eye and lie to you. I'm sorry, and this is hard to say about someone I don't know, but based on your description of his abandoning his other 'mothers of his children', I'd say you need to immediately get into a support house (parents if you can) ... and distance yourself from him. He will not change until he is forced to make grown-up decisions and seeks some counseling on his own.

When he told me that he made out with her 4 different nights visions of them touching each other went across my mind and i still cant get that out of my head. I can't seem to want to beleive him. BUT this is all he is telling me. For him to admit that sex happened or that there was touching, i would have to video tape him and show him for him to admit it.. i think this is what it comes down to to get the truth out. BUT, if the A is over, like his friend from work tells me (dont know if i could believe him even though he is a connection of information)I will never know the answer unless she shows up pregnant with his kid.

I told him to quit his job. OW is a coworker, he says they no longer talk to each other and that he just got his vacation time in to be home for the baby is born...but he will think about it.
I dont understand why he thinks a separation will bring us closer. I told him it could end the marriage.. he has it stuck in his messed up head that it will only make it stronger. When i am all moved him, i am going to tell him (hopefully having enough courage to do so)that i dont want no contact at all if he chooses to live separetly.. maybe a phone call here and there, but if he wants to work on the marriage he needs to come to our new home.
I told my family, my mom quickly jumps and says leave him! her and i are not close,, my MIL and I are like best friends and she knows what we have been through and what is going on.. she herself says he cheated BUT wants me to move in the new place and to let him go that he will "hang himself" , that he might come back because he has no where else to go, that he cant afford to live on his own on his earnings and paying child support.

OW is a 24 year old, with two kids, 7 & 3, and lives at home with her mom (he did tell me the 3 year old was with them when they drove around talking..(hello,..kids fall asleep and things can happen) anyways, she lives at home with her mom. On D day from a co-worker of his, she told me what was going on so i confronted OW mom, of what i heard to be going on. She said they are both at fault and age does not matter. She said if it is true, she does not except that behavior from her daughter. OW pulls up, i confront she denies ands says they just talk at work and have been out with work crew to bars etc. I have not spoken to her since.

A friend of his knows and has also been giving me some info, like one night he said he was going to his house to watch the game. He lied. Last night he said, he was at the bar but OW was not with him..other times it was a cover to drive around with OW.

I told his son's mother and her and i get along.

My priest knows, and i have an appt to see him this tuesday. Me and H.. were being counseled by him before i left for vacation, but H gave up going on 3rd visit b/c he did not like what the priest had to say.

Please keep me in mind and look for updates.. i cant do this alone.

I am moving Dec 1st across the street from his mom, with or without him, i already put down the security deposit and signed the lease for a year.

Once i am moved in i am telling H that I dont want contact with him (maybe phone calls)unless he moves to our new home and wants to work on our marriage.. It is going to be hard for the holidays, i know.. and Jan when baby is born, if he is not moved in by then, i dont want him there during the c-section. Feb will be our 4 year anniversary. this is tough. Please keep up with me.

The baby is sched. for Jan 12th. c-section (due date is the 24th.)

I went the other day to my dr. told him of A, and i asked to be tested for all STD's. I miss our lovemaking, i really do, but right now i do have to consider me and the baby, I have a 10yr. old son from a previous relationship.

Even though he says they did not have sex, before we ever are intimate again, i will tell him i want him tested just for my protection. I dont see us making love any time soon. He wont try to be close in that way right now anyways..

I will update as much as i can... dont loose me..in the forum..

It hurts to hear this .. but most likely you are all right. It really S*cks.. i pleaded with him to be honest that i will forgive him..



I hear you on this... my instincts tell me the same.. even though he has been less tense lately.. it is all so confusing..hurting, mind blowing..what he is doing to us.


Other than what his co-worker friend from work tells me that there was something going on that it was sex. Now tells me he sees her and another co-worker flirting and that H and OW dont talk anymore.. i dont know if this is true or what.

Neighbor also saw OW car at my house..(confirmed what H Co-worker told me) H denied it till last night. Said only one time she was there but left cause she was uncomfortable.



Thanks for clarifying.. i explained to him that it was an EA and ended up PA because they did make out.. it was physical. So his new title is an Unfaithful husband no matter if he says he slept with her or not.

How did you find out?? did she later tell you the truth?
Did you or someone else catch them?


what happened..? did he move back with you? did it change anything for the better or make it worse??

yes you are reading right. My stepson is 11, my son is 10 and his other son is not in H life. I told him of this pattern when he told me he wanted to live in separate places,, his only response was "this time it is different, we need a break and me and OW are no longer talking.." He stands his ground of not moving with me.. IF he changes his mind by Dec 1st., I will be shocked!


This is what is going through my mind.. it is killing me..i wish he would just tell me already.


I will be moving across the street from his moms.. i feel secure there. I am planning on telling him when i am moved in, that i dont want any contact (maybe through phone calls) unless he moves back home and works on our marriage.

OK.. two posts going getting confused.. i am sorry.. i reposted from my previos post..
I dont know if i can combine threads.. i made a new thread thinking other got lost..


Thanks.. I just remembered something.. in the middle of last night, when we were sleeping..(we are still sleeping in same bed but, he wont put his arms around me.. it's always me putting my arms around etc. SHOULD i stop that??) he felt my bare leg, and talked in his sleep. This is what he said as he felt my leg:
H-who is this
ME - its me
H - Me who?
Me - Its your wife!

he immediatly took his hand off my leg and turned over to the other side.. i actually felt crushed and did not know what to think.

When i woke up as he was getting ready for work, i told him what happened. He gave me a kiss and told me to stop analyzing everything..

(how could i forget that happened... glad i remembered)

What does everyone think of that???????????????? What could it have meant??

why are you moving out....

What do you think it meant?

Pretty obvious if you ask me.

Had something similar one nite shortly before D-day in my case. My wife always loved it when I'd initiate SF while she was asleep...she'd wake up and be very appreciative of it.

About a week before d-day, when I was really worried that something was going on, I woke up in the middle of the nite and started to do something like this. She actually slept through a lot of it, and woke up looking dazed and confused and guilty when she did...I remember looking her in the face and commenting "Well at least you didn't call out someone else's name"...she flushed sooo hard. I KNEW she'd been dreaming of OM.

She admitted it later in MC.

Now...she HADN'T been with OM physically...just not possible, since OM lives on the other side of the country and there's no way they had time to meet...plus in the IM's that I intercepted prior to d-day they were talking about meeting and seeing if what they had was the same in person.

In your case...there is no way I'd believe that he was being honest about what went on.

We are renting a full house for $700/mo. We cant do it anymore exspecially with baby coming. If we dont move out by dec 1st. we wont have a christmas and phone is already shut off.


Financial reasons...

thanks owl.. damn does the truth hurt.. doing my best with plan A... knowing i only have till dec 1st, when plan B kicks in. From everyones advice.. no phone calls either.. its gonna be hard. Everyone here is giving me strength.. i feel stronger everytime i read a response.

He has is son tonight for visitation.. and i most likely will be here at the office real late doing my online schooling.. final exam and team project due monday.

Baby shower is tomorrow.. i hope i dont breakdown..

I am printing out my threads and taking notes for next "talk".