I was in plan A from May '04 to October '04. I saw my WW about five times during those five months, spoke to her on the phone maybe five other times. I sent her a few small gifts and friendly cards.

Nothing I could have done would have changed things. She shacked up with OM almost immediately and stayed away.

You could say that after all that, in a way, I'm in plan A with everyone now. With a couple of exceptions.

So I'm a better person for it, but it was tough, and it might have drawn out my suffering and grief. Not sure about that.

Oh, and OMW was pregnant all this time.

A few people that do this stuff save their marriages, even when they do it from a distance. Sometimes it takes many, many months.

It's a rare bird who can stay in plan A for longer than a few months. I think the Harleys recommend only about six weeks for women.

I think you should call Dr. Harley. Even if you only talk once or twice, it's worth the expense.

GC

Ark^^

WH came over last night and I was sure to be smiling when WH walked in the door. Says hi, what are you smiling about? I said nothing, just playing with DS. WH expected me to be in a bad mood since he went a few days without calling and asking for DS. Usually I would’ve confronted WH. Asking him if he was too busy to call and find out how DS was? So I guess he was surprised when I was walking around smiling to myself all night.

A commercial for Disney world came on tv and he said that maybe when DS was older we can take him to Disney World together. Smiling I said, really I don’t think my future H would like that idea. He says, why not? Whomever I’m with will have to accept that. I said good for you but I don’t think my future H would be comfortable with that unless you decide that you would like to join us. He says, it would be nice for DS to have memories of his mom and dad together for his first visit to Disney World. I said yes it would’ve been nice and smiled.

For our honeymoon we went to Hawaii and loved eating macadamia nuts so I went out and bought the same name brand we used to eat while we were there and left it out on the counter. WH did a double take when he saw it and I asked if something was wrong and he said nothing. When it was time for WH to leave I said goodnight, gave him a flirtatious smile, locked the door and turned away.

He must of left wondering what the heck is up with her today. WH has not seen him that happy in a while. It felt good to be in control of the evening for a change.

I got a couple of travel brochures for the Carribean, Mexico and Crusises which will be lying around next time WH comes over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Devastatednewmom. If I had a hat I would tip it in your honor. I suggest you change your name to devastatingnewmom!

blessings to you...

the fact that you feel stronger...in more control...

it even gives you a taste of being able to survive without him...

remember that what your husband believes he wants so bad...is empty and shallow...

thousands and thousand of companies are in business trying to MAKE COUPLES...not multiple dating arrangements....

his quest is lonely and empty....

you have your child...
you have a sanctuary of goodness...

move with grace
and
joy...

more important than saving marriages..is saving the indivuals assaulted by this situation...

good for you...

ARK

I tried to schedule an evening appointment with Dr. Harley but was told that he no longer does counseling. I can only afford one call so is it worth it to schedule a session with Jennifer? Has any one had any expierience with her? Thank you in advance.

I counseled with Jennifer once. She helped me, but only a little. There was nothing I could do to change what would happen.

After everything, the expense of that counseling session has no significance.

You have a bigger problem than a partner who has thrown away her honor and you along with it. You have a partner for whom infidelity is a lifestyle.

Call the radio show when Harley is on. You'll get through easily. Assume Jennifer will point you in a similar direction, and decide then whether you want to speak with her.

That's easy and it doesn't cost anything.

GC

ARK

WH came over to visit DS and installed a new car seat. He had to remove the infant cushion because DS has already outgrown it but couldn’t figure it out. He wanted to cut it and i said no. WH says why not? I said just because you never know. WH says why do you plan on having another baby so you want to keep everything just in case. I said maybe so WH looks at DS and says oh you might be getting a brother or sister. I just smiled. WH knew i always wanted at least 2 kids. WH thinks because we’re no longer together that i don’t plan on having any more or I’m going to sit around and wait for him to decide that he’s had enough of playing the field?

I left some travel brochures laying around and at some point WH asks if i were to take a vacation would i leave DS with him or my parents? So he did notice the brochures. I’m thinking why in the world would i leave DS with you when you don’t even have a place of your own and DS can be around OWs??? I said oh speaking of vacation, what was the name of the place we went dancing in Mexico? So he says oh it’s so and so, why do you plan on going there? I said maybe. WH replies what about DS when will i get to see him? I’m thinking “really I’m surprised you care. You’ve gone at least 5 days without calling and asking for him and have gone a week without visiting him”. I just smiled and said oh don’t worry it’ll be for just a day or 2. I could tell WH was disturbed but he just said yeah i believe it was so and so.

I don’t know what effect this will have on him, if any, but I noticed that he was taken aback with it but then it seems like he became his normal self again.

Do you think this was a LB? Next time, should i answer his questions or should i just "maybe" him to death.

Thanks GC

But I'm at work when the show airs so that won't help any. It seems that Dr. Harley only does morning session so i'll call again to schedule a session.

Okay I made it here..
Well i wanted to tell you.. that Plan A is soo difficult especially for us that are not used to giving without something in return.. You almost feel like you are being walked on.. but have faith and stand strong.. There is a positive outcome.. Even if the marriage isn't recovered, You are a better person b/c of it!..
When I was 5 months pregnant I found out My H who was my fiance at the time cheated on me. I was crushed.. this was my first child.. and I had always envisioned the happy "family", Daddy rubbing Mommy's stomach, going to dr appts together, planning for baby together.. All of that gone and I was soooo angry with him.. I didn't think I could have children and when I met my H.. he was the one who wanted a baby with me.. he was the one who wanted a happy family etc.. So we went thru infertility treatments and within 2 months I was pregnant! and now he goes and does this?? it ws too much to comprehend.

Long story short, I moved out and into my own apartment. I had a great support group of church friends and kept myself busy.. I cried more than I care to admit. I thought I would lose my mind but I had to keep it together. It was hard.. i wsa horrible at first.. Rejecting him, holding the baby over his head, giving ultimatums etc. But then I got on MB and I began to read and after 3 months of treating this scum horribly.. i began to change.. ALot also was due to getting closer spiritually to God. (that was my saving grace) H began to see them changes even though at first it seemed he didn't even notice.. He continued to talk to the OW, even made plans to move her into our home that we were having built, etc. I thought it ws hopeless. It ws so hard to be kindto him knowing what he was still doing and it just didn't seem fair at all.

But God is a good God. I finally began to surrender the situation to him.. and coming to the realization that if he wanted to just "be friends for the baby" that was fine. I acted like I was having the time of my life without him.

When my son was 3 months old.. THis is when he came early one morning to my apartment.. grief stricken.. He had finally come to realize what a good thing he had and what he was so close to losing.. He said by me acting like I was moving on.. scared the crap out of him.. I was no longer waiting for him, calling him, begging him to spend time with us.. etc.

WIthin a month we were married.. No our story still doesn't have the happy ending that I would like it but I believe that it will. Within oneself, we are all capable of being the same.. not changing.. But with God all things are possible, even the total transformation of our husbands. God is on our side.. and if GOd is for us who can be against us?

Everything is as it should be.. Yes it hurts, and No it doesn't seem like it's going to get better. BUt Take comfort, GOd is still in control. and He is madly in love with you!

Take care and I'll be praying for you and the baby and your husband..

I need help.

My MIL and FIL are flying in for the holidays. They've asked WH to ask me if they can come over to meet DS and I agreed. For the lasts 5 years we've always spent christmas eve at his family's place. WH has asked me several times if he can pick DS and I up and take us over to his family's house. I won't do it. I don't feel comfortable given the circumstances and being that they've cut all communications with me the day i threw FH out. WH doesn't want his family but then again he wants his family when it's convenient for him.

FH has also asked if the whole family can come over when MIL and FIL visits with DS? I don't know how to handle the situation w/o telling him off. I'm so upset. Am I the only one that thinks this is awkward? They haven't spoken to me in months but you're supposed to come over to my house and i'm supposed to go over to yours and pick up where we left off.

How can i tell him that the only ones invited are my MIL and FIL without causing any LB? If i just say no i know it will be a LB. How do i say it effectively.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

How can i tell him that the only ones invited are my MIL and FIL without causing any LB? If i just say no i know it will be a LB. How do i say it effectively.

lovebusters are not the same as consequences of choices...
and though the WS loves to and will try to turn them and perceive them as such they aren't...

make plans for christmas eve....
Tell your husband that while you appreciate the invitation..it unforturanely came after you made plans already to spend it with so and so...

make arrangements with inlaws on your own to have them visit daughter...
take them out to dinner...
mmet you at the mall to see daughter...and then invite them and just them back for cookies....

FH has also asked if the whole family can come over when MIL and FIL visits with DS?

oooh not sure that's gonna work...I made plans to do this and go here and go there.....

Your family hasnt spoken to me for a while and so I had NO idea they wanted to come SEE me....
sorry but it may a little too busy round the holidays...
maybe if they want to me they could call me some time in january and set something up...

batt your eyes here...

no power struggling...
no arguing
no accusations....

what would be really great is to spend christmas eve with friends...if possible...so that he can't blame and try to drag your family in to this.....

can't accuse you of running to them...

say things...

ask questions instead of accusing that put him in the hot seat.....

"All this talk of family christmas stuff...it is very confusing to me..
I thought you wanted to be single and date people...
not do the family thing....
"

I'm NOT comfortable going to your families...they confuse me and it confuses me that they want to see me...they are mad at me for you leaving the house when it is you that wants to date other people..."

"I am surprised your family wants to see me and the baby...none of them have called once to see how we are since you left us...why do they suddenly want to see us now....?"

ask him.
have you told your whole family and parents you want to date people and not be married....have YOU told them THAT


don't blow your top
don't lose your cool...
fill your time up with activities for you..
enjoy yourself...
say you are going to friends christmas eve even if you end up at your families it is none of his business.....

also consider going to a christmas service...lots of churches do childrens services early christmas eve..how wonderful they are...

invite him to that if you choose that one....

you sound well
you sound stronger than before..

and believe me he is NOTICING EVERYTHING....

do you talk to your inlaws..
what do they about their sons behavior...

ARK^^

ARK

do you talk to your inlaws..
what do they about their sons behavior...

No, i don't talk to my inlaws. they have not spoken to me since i threw him out and i don't bother calling them either...i'm extremely hurt by the way the have chosen to handle this.

When i discovered WH A's the first person i called was my MIL because she's the closest to him..his father and him are not that close. I was 6 months pregnant at that time and WH was away on a "business trip" so i needed someone to talk to and vent to and someone who "knew" him and could give him advice. She seemed very supportative of me and was extremely hurt and angry with WH. She would call me every day to check up on me. When WH returned she constantly talked to him and tried to give him advice...i could always hear WH responding to her telling her things like

- this is who i am and i don't think i can change
- i tried being faithful and i couldn't, so why bother trying again..some people can't be faithful...etc.
- if God didn't want this to happen then he wouldn't have put me in this situation

She tried to "warn" me how difficult it was going to be on me if i threw him out because i had a small baby. that i should move him to the sofa and that maybe after the baby was born he will fall in love with the baby and realize what a mistake he had done. That's when i found out about this A's again..they had never stopped...he just got more cleaver at hiding things(that's what he thought) so i threw him out. i called my MIL and told her what had happened and she didn't like it that i threw him out into the streets. That's when her attitude changed and her true colors came out. She tried putting the blame on me.

She told me that
- i should've seen this coming
- that i should've asked around before getting married what type of person he is
- that he has always been the flirtous type so it was no surprise
- that i didn't love him because i was not willing to fight for him

They kept this hidden from my FIL up until a month after he was out of the house because he was going to be devastated...that he loved me like a daughter, was excited about us starting a family and was so happy because he thought we had a wonderful marriage. i tried contacting my FIL but could never reach him. Who knows what story they gave him because FIL never contacted me. a

I haven't spoken to her since and they're coming to visit DS while they're in town. I'm not looking forward to that at all.

what a horrible thing for a mil to say...

I say don't go out of your way to accomodate their demands...

fit them in when it is convienant....but don't make it like it's all good....

make your own plans...be kind be gracious and squeeze them in...

I wouldn't have the whole family over by any means...

and I would tell your husband ...no thanks ...

in a very very kind and nice plan A ...like not this year dear..it't too much work to prepare alone to have them over....
sorry can't fit it in...

ARK

ARK

I told WH that I was taking DS to the mall to see santa tomorrow and that he was welcomed to join us. He jumped at the chance but asked to pick us up. I told him I would get back to him on that one.

My dilemma is this...I really don’t know my way to this mall as we had just recently moved....but, I can try to find my way if I really had to. I can still have him watch the baby for me while I go to VS and buy something and then tell him that we gotta go because we have someplace to go.....part of me wants to accept the ride because i want to be in his company and show him what he’s missing...we only went out as a family once when DS was two weeks old but obviously he doesn’t care or he would be back home.

You see, my WH has a need to feel wanted and needed. I have gone to extremes to show him that I didn’t need him at all. Before I found out of the A’s for the second time, he kept telling me that I needed him because of the baby. I wanted to prove to him that I could survive without him..now being in plan a should I make him feel wanted and let him come to my “rescue” or is it a bad idea and I should let him meet us there so that it can have more effect on him, if any.

I think he could care less about my new attitude towards him and my moving on...he asked me to move on and leave him alone. He doesn’t see anything wrong with what he’s doing..says he’s not the first and last do have done something like this and that for once he’s thinking about himself first and not someone else....that the baby and I would be better off without him.

He has such a big ego that he was suppose to see DS this week but couldn’t because DS was sick and I had to stay at my parents house so that I can get some sleep. He asked to visit with DS at my parents place and I told him that I didn’t think that was a good idea (my parents are extremely hurt and don’t want him in their home because of the total disrespect he’s shown me and them. Besides I was only there for a day and he could see DS the next day at my house...I mean he’s gone almost a week without seeing DS so what’s 1 more day. No, he couldn’t wait he wanted to see him on that day. He got upset because he’s the father and they should get over it...that they can’t deny him access to HIS son and that wherever his son is..he has a RIGHT to be there too. Why in the world would you want to go to their house and play the happy father when you walked out on us and didn’t care about it then? Talk about living in the fog.

When WH called in the morning to confirm if he was picking us up or meeting us there, after much thinking I decided that the biggest impact on him was for him to realize that I could move out and about without relying on him. I told WH to meet us there. I couldn’t have been more right about that. WH asked why he couldn’t pick us up instead because it was easier traveling in 1 car than in 2...what...there’s parking available inside the mall. Then he asks but it’s going to be difficult for us to meet, it’s crowded in there.....what...I’ll just meet you next to Macy’s. WH wanted to know what was the big deal that he couldn’t pick us up. He wanted to know if I had someplace else to go afterwards? Of course I said yes and he says where are you going? Out, I replied. He asks again where am I going and again I said out. He says is it a secret that you can’t tell me where and I said no and left it at that. He said ok I’ll meet you there and hung up abruptly. The nerve of him.....what does he care where I’m going? I smiled because he must have been picking his brains...LOL

I dressed to kill and was pleasant. Bought him coffee and cake and we chatted about the baby. I did as you suggested and told him to hold the baby while I run and get something. He came to the store...now this is some one who hates going inside the stores and used to wait for me on a bench. I couldn’t purchase anything because the line was ridiculously long. He walked up back to the car and the baby started crying inconsolably. WH gave me a sad look as to say... I feel sorry for him that he has to ride alone in the back screaming. WH called about three times to see if we had arrived fine. I didn’t take any of his calls..let him wonder.

We had a pleasant time but it was sad at the same time. It made me see what it would’ve been like to be a family...the way it should be. What I had always wanted. He walked around like the proud father holding his son. How can he not want to be there? How can he settle for so little? It doesn’t seem to bother him that he’s missing the baby’s first every thing. It truly hurts to see how unselfish another human being can be.

I hope this plan is stirring something inside him and makes him realize what an *** he's being but if he doesn't I know we will be ok without him. His lost.

Oh, you are doing VERY WELL. Listen to Ark's advice. Just be very, very busy. And I would be friendly with your in-laws. They haven't done a great job through this, but you need to take the higher road.

Believer

Thank you.

Yes, now I have to deal with the in-laws. I’m going to have to dig deep inside and find it in me to be very nice to them......that’s going to be a very hard pill to swallow. They’ve hurt me so much. I never expected that kind of reaction from them. I’m nervous about facing them. Not sure how the evening going to go with that one...but I will try my hardest not to break down and be confrontational.

As of right now, I’m building myself up for it. Be nice, be nice, be nice..that’s what I’m going to be telling myself under my breath.

Try not to take it personally. My SIL and I were best friends before her brother betrayed me. We did EVERYTHING together. Now I haven't heard from her in 2 years. Same thing happened with the wife of my husband's brother. We used to be so close, and she sides with me. But I never hear from her either. I think the whole thing just makes the family too uncomfortable.

Luckily, my husband and I are divorcing. I don't have to work on repairing the other relationships. Don't think I could do it. Their behavior was so hurtful.

But you have a little one to consider. Do it for his sake.

You've shown a lot of inner strentgh so far. You'll make it through this.

You'll find that the view is better from the Higher road.

Stay Strong.

Don't be afraid to talk to your husband...

think about planting seeds and talk him without things he needs to answer or respond to...but talk to him about the reality of his choices ...and try to touch his soul and show love and concern....

it's the last thing he expects...

He doesn’t see anything wrong with what he’s doing..says he’s not the first and last do have done something like this and that for once he’s thinking about himself first and not someone else....

tell him there isn't a person in the world who doesnt' feel that way sometimes....

tell him that while thinking about yourself only certainly gets rewards...they are empty...
for it is in doing and caring for other people that we truly find ourselves...

tell him things like that..with no challenges
with no judgement just sorrow...

tell him that while part of you knows exactly the pull to do and be only for oneself..in the end it sounds lonely and empty and it hurts you to think of him doing such a thing to himself when you KNOW he has so much to offer people he loves....

He got upset because he’s the father and they should get over it...that they can’t deny him access to HIS son and that wherever his son is..he has a RIGHT to be there too

tell him that your parents are only doing what he one day will do for his own child..protecting them from being hurt...and it is the mark of great parents that do such a thing...and you have no doubt that if someone was hurting his child that he would do what he could to protect them as well...

that you believe he would do for your own EXACTLY as your parents are doing for you....
for they love....and they act lovingly...

tell him about the ride back home...
tell him that it was nice seeing him hold his child...
and it is sad that he doesn't want to be part of that...

tell him that while you are finding out how strong you are...that it would be nice to have someone to share of these times with .....

speak globally...

this man is at great risk for someone else raising his own child.....


thank him for the nice time at the mall...
tell him you wish he could believe in himself as much as you do to be a great dad and husband...

you have done well in protecting yourself...and if you can begin to plant seeds that still protect you..

if you expect no repsonse..
and give him no things that need responded to...just lots and lots of food for thought.....

smooch that baby...and hold it close to your heart....

you aren't fighting with him
you aren't nagging him ...
you are letting him live and do as he chooses.....

and he is finding it as empty as we all know it to be....

he may be lost forever....devasted....but his loss is NOT your own devastation....
and you are doing the best you can....in a horrible situation...
show him hope.....

ARK^^