After all this time I was afraid he might be some kind of over-reactive type, turns out he's the opposite...he doesn't care about it at all! Unfortunately I did not find this forum until after I discovered everything (EA with old high school flame) so I didn't do exposure correctly at all. He told me that she told him all about it once she received my email letting her know I found out. Discovery and exposure to WS and OW was a month ago. Since then I have left 2 or 3 messages on their home machine. I called again today and he answered. I asked him if he had received my previous messages and he said yes. When I asked if he was at all concerned about what was going on he said "No, I trust my wife completely". WTH? He had little to say, his tone of voice seemed to lack much interest. I asked him if he knew what happened and if he read the emails he said no. He said she didn't have the emails anymore so he did not read them. I told him that I had found 60 emails and phone call information and that it was not innocent friends catching up on old times but rather that it was highly sexual, discussions that they wish they had stayed together, missed each other, etc. He really didn't care about it. He said everything was fine with them. Unbelieveable!

I just emailed the cut and past of the 60 emails to him. I don't expect to hear back.

I am clueless about what to do next.

"He told me that she told him all about it once she received my email letting her know I found out."

Well, what she probably told him all about was what a whaco you are. You forewarned her, and she had the time to give him her own spin. So she has rewritten things and prepared him for hearing from you. That is why we always suggest that the exposure be without any warning.

Don't do anything more. You did all you could do. Just make sure he knows how to contact you when and if he ever wakes up. Maybe the emails will wake him up?

Now, get ready for the explosion from your H for interfering in his affair!

You are so right believer...I had not found this site at that time. IF ONLY I had known I could have done this so differently.

Melody, You're right, I did what I could do at this point, I have a few more exposures to do tonight. I'm not done yet...And yes, I expect to see a lot of hatred now. I'm ready for it though.

Good job, Sick!

Of course now you still have the original problem. But I suspect that the woman's husband will keep an eye on things - especially after he checks out the emails.

How are things going with your husband?

We are not doing well at all. He continues to verbally abuse me whenever this is discussed. Lots of you're an F'in this and that...mostly pertaining to me being stupid, etc. He STRONGLY hangs onto the "no sex=no affair" stuff. I am not moving off of that though. He told me himself that he has thought about her all these years (25) and he wrote her all about it and yet he maintains "they were just words" and they don't mean anything, that I am reading between the lines, blah, blah blah.

He has an appt with IC tomorrow. We'll see what comes of that. Mostly he is strongly denying that anything was going on even though there are 60 emails about longing, missing, sex etc.

He is weakening though. This exposure should help...GOD, I hope so.

Oh, and he took his wedding ring off today.

Was he verbally abusive before this happened?

sick, I never listened to FOWH when he told ME what he thought was going on between the two of them. Denial is a powerful, POWERFUL delusionary force. All you can do is what you did, it's going to have to "hit" him on his own time. And when it does, your H had better not be around.

All that said, you at least know you don't have OWH's support in ending this A. We'll be hoping the exposure itself does some good. For the meantime, let your WH know that you are not going to allow yourself to be verbally abused. Tell him in a moment of calm that if and when he decides to take that turn in any conversation, you will walk away--and then DO IT.

Yes, he has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a big part of the 10 years we've been together. He was abused by his mom when he was a little boy so maybe that's why he is like that. He has a different way of looking at things. Like this was not an affair because there was no sex. It was just words. When confronted about the verbal and emotional abuse he would always say, "So, where are the bruises and broken bones?" No bruises = no abuse.

We went to counseling and that helped a great deal and he rarely did it anymore. Since I confronted him about the emails and phone calls last month it has all started back up.

Through counseling and prayer I had fully forgiven him for all the damage that the abuse had caused and we were doing just great. We really turned the corner. Then this happened. Now all the pain and memories from the abuse (just words he says) has come flooding back and the EA that he says was just words...it's all just been too much. Yesterday he started accusing me of all kinds of crazy things. Lots of finger pointing, etc. It was a full verbal attack and very painful. That is what gave me the courage to try and call OWH one more time.

One thing that is complicating any plans I am trying to make is that he lost his Dad this summer. In fact, it was when we went back to his home town for the funeral that she came over and they exchanged emails and this took off from there. He was so close to his dad and his heart is broken. We are starting a couple months of firsts since the death...first TG, first Christmas, WS birthday and his Dad's birthday. I am trying to support him in his grief but the screaming and the name calling and the EA is really in the way. Any plan B might be just too much for him right now.

We are going to the IC but the majority of his sessions are about his grief right now, not our marriage and the EA. In fact, part of his anger yesterday was about how I don't care about the death of his dad because I am focused on this OW.

This is going to be a tough holiday season here.

***Yes, he has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a big part of the 10 years we've been together. He was abused by his mom when he was a little boy so maybe that's why he is like that.***

***I am trying to support him in his grief but the screaming and the name calling and the EA is really in the way. Any plan B might be just too much for him right now.***

sickofthis, I have a feeling you have been making excuses for your husband's mistreatment of you for a very long time. Many, many people have had similar upbringings to his but they do NOT go on to emotionally abuse their families through lies, yelling, bullying, and having affairs -- and make no mistake, having any sort of affair is most definitely a form of emotional abuse towards the BS.

Dr. Phil says that "You teach people how to treat you." I know you were trying to be "nice" and "supportive" and "helpful," but you inadvertently taught your husband that it was okay for him to lie to you and bully you and cheat on you. He has learned that all he has to do is get nasty, and you will back right down and make excuses for his rotten behavior.

This is what he's doing now. He is bullying you into backing off because he has learned that that works.

You are going to need a very dark and very solid Plan B if you are to have ANY hope of teaching this man that it is NOT okay to lie to you, use you, bully you and cheat on you.

And just "counseling" is not going to do this -- not as long as he is actively involved in his affair. It's a waste of time and money.

Do a short Plan A - as much as you can stand - and then be prepared for a pitch-dark Plan B. He will be furiously angry at losing the control over you that he's been enjoying for years, but your alternatives are either 1) leave him for good and get a divorce, or 2) go on letting him emotionally abuse you while you make excuses for him.

I hope other posters will join in here. This is JMHO.
Good luck.
Mulan

I agree with Mulan..

I would move to plan B or even more important..

plan protection where I am no longer interested being called stupid ever ever ever again by the man who says he loves me and wants to be with me...

period...

I would not tolerate one more second of this.......

He says that his words to her mean/nmeant nothing and they are just words...then logically it must apply that is words to you mean/meant nothing they are just words..

and you should have no interest in anymore of his empty words.....and are only intereseted in actions from this moment out

it is him deciding and learning all on his own the appropriate way to treat those you love....
you are not his teacher you are his wife...and will have to learn this on his own...

i bet he doesnt' go to work and call his co-workers and bosses stupid so we know he is able to discern and control...

time to bow out of his chaos and decide enough is enough for you....

I'd write a short plan B letter...with hope but not very little if anything for him to turn on you...

ARK

I have been plan Aing but it does no good because it just confirms that he was right and this was no big deal because it really was not an affair. While I plan A it, he settles back into daily life, content that all is back to normal.

I am as certain as I can be that there has been no contact since exposre. OWH also thinks that there has been no contact. However, I am very fearful this will flare up again down the road. This emailing and calling was hot and sexual almost from the beginning...after 25 years apart. CLEARLY there are feelings both of them have for each other. By the 3rd email or so they were saying things like I wish I would have made the other choice (OW talking about choosing her current H over my husband back in high school), miss you lots, I think of you a lot (WS), I never stopped thinking about us (WS), maybe someday (ws), you make me happy (OW), you make my night when you call (WS and OW), you make me laugh (OW),I have never forgotten those times (OW), when are you planning on visiting next, my H will be gone such and such a time (OW). I could go on and on. He claims that these are just words, he never cared for her, that it means nothing to him, do not prove affection or caring, that there is absoltely no relationship and that I am reading between the lines. That is just a sampling of the 60 emails like this and many that are VERY VERY sexual.

I just can't do a plan B considering this is the first TG, Christmas, his bday and his recently deceased father's bday all from now until end of January. He is still VERY deeply grieving and I cannot imagine how cruel I would be to do it at this time. But after January nothing stands in the way. Our MC said that I should not expect too much from him in terms of working on the marriage between now and through January because of the grief process. I AM asking myself, as you suggest, if I make excuses for him and his behavior. I know that I have in the past, but I thought I was not doing that anymore. I guess I have to really search myself about it because it has been suggested to me recently by a couple of my friends as well. I have been trying to remember when I EVER STARTED letting him talk to me this way. It happened little by little along the way. He used to drink very heavily and would say horrible things, he would not remember it of course and then deny that he said it. That's when the calling me crazy really started.

The thing about the what a "dumb F***" I am and "you're such a dumb A** comments that's so odd is I am highly intelligent. In our family one sister was the "sweet one" , one was the "cute" one, I was always the smart one. I have successfully raised two wonderful sons by myself and then I had two boys with WS very late in life. I have my own business and run the household entirely on my own. I sit on several boards and absoltely no one would guess that I am in this type of relationship. He is the only one that thinks I am dumb. Now with this EA that he just wants dismissed as my craziness, etc I wonder what to do. I love him and I value my marriage vows but this destruction has gone on too long. After he does it he eventually is very sorry and it isn't too long and he does it again. We really turned a corner this summer with MC and he stopped with the verbal abuse and things were great...but through out all of that, he was emailing and carrying on with her. Part of it is I just don't want to be divorced. I was divorced 11 years ago and raised my older boys by myself and I hate that I was so foolish to have choosen badly a second time. Not that it would stop me, but it is something I think about. I desparately do not want to hurt my little boys either. It would kill me to destroy their family. I keep thinking I can handle his crap for their sake, but after this EA, it don't have a lot of energy any more. I am deeply hurt and humiliated by it and how has portrayed me to his family over this. They think I am over reactive and crazy jealous over a couple of emails. I told him I want him to send the emails to his family and they can decide if I am over reactive. I have been remarkably contained through out this whole mess.

Concerning "it's just words" and how to respond...I actually HAVE said things like well what words are true. If all the things that were written and said to her were just words how do I know about what you say to me? This makes him SO ANGRY! The other day I said something along those lines and he just snarled at me, "You're just trying to start sh&t with me. You always twist everything I say around".

You are very right about how he bullies and I back down. I can't stand it when he gets so mad so I do back off. Plan B would be the best next step to stop all of this but that has to wait until the end of January.

I could write all day about this madness and I never can come up with a good solution. I just know that I am worn out from all the craziness and emptiness. I wish I had never married him, but I did, we have two beautiful boys to think about.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />well he's bullied you in to staying while he grieves..

it lacks such logic...it's difficult for me to understand...
very difficult...
because he is grieving somehow that translates that you should stay and be continually abused....

Our MC said that I should not expect too much from him in terms of working on the marriage between now and through January because of the grief process.

pathetic....really....free license to not work on treating his wife with decent respect....

ugggh...

This makes him SO ANGRY!

want to know what really pisses a WS off...

call them an adulterer....

they just don't like it...
they get all shocked and offended...as if you have callen them something so far from the truth....

it's kind of funny...in a sad way...

I keep thinking about your post...and I keep trying to come up with good reasons to live your life being called horrible names...

and I keep drawing a blank...

are your children witness to his treatment of you..
what about your other children not from him...what do they say about his treatment of their mother...

what would you tell your kids if they were being treated the way you are...
would you tell them to stay....

and I cannot imagine how cruel I would be to do it at this time.

does this statement really really make sense to you...

somehow in your head it would be cruel for you to remove yourself from a situation in which a man calls you horrific names....and holds you hostage over his own choice to have an affair.....

and somehow his compassion for the dead...is more important than his ability to respect the living.....

I just don't see him as the victim here to your cruelity....
not at all....
no matter which way I look at it...

sorry his dad died...yep...
but don't see how that gives the right to abuse...

he's sooo sad he has to call you an f-eng something or other....

grownups who spend time in conflict and call people names over and over and over again...are really just taking their own self loathing and turning it on to others.....

what they say really is a reflection of they themselves...

I think you have excused enough...
I would think that not being called an effing this or that...would be sanctuary....

especially from a GROWN man...

ARK

You know Ark, for the record I think you are a brilliant woman (even for an RN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />--relax people, it is a joke)....and 100% agree wholeheartedly with your post above....BUT, this is where it is confusing here for some.

I have read many "experts" here say (BS) should not expect anything from their WS during the withdrawal phase....and unfortunately many Betrayeds essentially keep taking the $hit piled on them because their WS are incapable of doing anything to recover the marriage during withdrawal phases and/or during Plan A.

This could not be spelled out any better than right here on a current very popular thread littered with many "experts".....a BS keeps taking disrespect at escalating almost inhumane levels and essentially utter humiliation all in the name of "plan A"....and as the abuse continues, they are encouraged even more for being such a "strong person".....I shake my head...but keep quiet, because somehow the only way I can rationalize that it must "just be me" who is dysfuntional. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> IT HAS TO BE ME, THERE IS NO OTHER F-ING EXPLANATION !!!

What is very ironic, is that I could say the EXACT same things as you and it would be considered not "supportive" of marriage....LOL....you got to love it. But, you don't get to be an "expert" for nothing here....by the way, this is not a slight to you at all....quite the contrary.

You do not have to answer this post...I get it now.....Ark, your alright, I just have to admit that I had you "pegged" all wrong.....I think I have a better grasp of your posts and "position" on things now.....I will keep it to myself.....this in itself will probably be troubling to you....snf probabaly cause some people to misinterpret what I am saying...

To the original poster.....sorry for the thread jack.

I gotta roll now, Notre Dame vs. Stanford is turning out to be a barn burner.....Go Stanford !!!!!

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You know Ark, for the record I think you are a brilliant woman (even for an RN --relax people, it is a joke)..

thank you for the compliment...though next time just start your own post all about me me me...and more me.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
that's a joke people....

lemonman...make no mistake about me...

there is NOTHING and I do mean NOTHING about taking abuse (and I don't use the word abuse lightly...) in Plan A...

lets face it a grown man whose best defense in a conflict is calling someone really bad bad names..is pretty telling

Plan A is about doing what you can on your end to keep communcication open...but being called an effing this or that is a huge huge communication blocker....and no good will ever come in plan Aing such nonsense...when it occurs set your limit and boundary and remove oneself..period...

even the true meaning of the fog is so misused round these parts...
never does it EXCUSE or even really EXPLAIN a persons choices...it's just easier to type...then get a load of the horse crap my spouse is saying now.....

there is a lot of confusion here about how to go about this...the one thing about plan A is learning to not react with gut and emotion and take a second to think it through...picture the good the bad and the ugliest response...
prepare and diffuse it....

and speak your words...so that they have the most meaning with least amount of futile powerstruggling...

mastering that is a great skill no matter what state the marriage ends up in....

I shake my head...but keep quiet, because somehow the only way I can rationalize that it must "just be me" who is dysfuntional.

next time just sign your post ARK^^ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
cept you dayum surgeons are such perfectionists..you'd probably spell every word correct...us nurses can't be bogged down in the details...too many tasks...

infact you probably say "hand me that sphygomamometer nurse!!"
and I'd say...B/P cuff anyone ?

in the end it's all the same....

be well lemonman....
this is an interesting little place on the net...though..
so many good good souls...in so much pain....hopefully they will find some peace here..

ARK^^

He asked me what he could do to "get through this" and get back "on track". Since he still hangs onto the no sex = no affair crap I said he could read up on emotional affairs to better understand how I am feeling.

I sent him the article fron the Today show yesterday via email last night. I thought it did a good job of explaining it. It was sent as information. This morning when I woke up this was his response:

That's nice. As I said before, she may have been pushing it but I wasn't interested (a physical meeting). I wasn't worried about getting caught. If I was, I sure wouldn't have been using my email. It's so nice to come home after a hard day at work and read this [censored].

We had such a nice weekend together and I thought we were making progress. I guess not. Progess for him is only if this goes away. No discussion, no admission, no acknowledgement of the consequences of his actions. I "just have to get over it".