My wife and I have a question. What do you do when one person's "need" directly conflicts with the other's "need"?

This is totally hypothetical but pretend one partner likes S&M. They want to tie their partner up and whip them. This drive is a strong one. But the other person feels such an act is humiliating? What is a couple to do?

Let's take another situation:

A wife enjoys being pampered. To her, pampering is defined as her husband going to get her a glass of water, fetching things such as the remote for her, turning out the lights in the bedroom, or driving to the store to go buy her a snack late at night. The husband sees this as degrading and that he's being treated as a servant. He claims he would never ask such things of his wife because he would consider it degrading to her. What should the couple do?

I think that in both cases, the dom in the first one, and the H in the second are in serious need of therapy, and as to why he bothered getting married in the first place. One of the best definitions of love is servanthood. That doesn't mean being taken advantage of or taken for granted.

I've read a bunch of your posts, and I will toss this out for you to mull or ignore as you will.

When there are problems between a couple, and the love bank is empty or close to it on both parts, then every single little niggling detail becomes a mountain. And so conflict arises, and "he said/she said", and all kinds of crap that keeps the couple from getting down to the root of the issues.

As a couple chooses not to be offended or bothered, and instead works diligently on stopping withdrawals and making deposits, the little problems (and most of the medium sized ones), just seem to go away. They just don't exist anymore.

If the lovebanks were full, then either spouse can ask the other for something, and be pretty confident that they will get it. Even if the thing being asked for isn't their first choice. (aside from pain/illegal, etc)...

You need to read the POJA and get your brain wrapped around it, in that it is where *both* partners enthusiastically agree. It's not a case of giving in make the other happy, it's finding the areas that you can both take enjoyment from.

It's interesting that you choose the Dom in the first and yet the H in the second. I wrote them with the intension of parrelling each-other. Both Dom and W are asking a person to do something which they find demeans them. Yet it's ok for the W to do it but not the Dom.

Are you sure your stigma for the Dom hasn't clouded your judgement? And NO, I'm not into DOM. I'm just making the point that one person wants something and that in turn makes the other person uncomfortable.
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However, I do hear what you are saying about mountains out of hills and that I shouldn't nitpick things but rather work on trying to fill her lovebank. I understand. It was just a question my wife and I had last night and she said I should post it for people's opinions.

I think that in both cases, the dom in the first one, and the H in the second are in serious need of therapy,

Nothing wrong with the H in the second one. Perhaps he is a little off in "The husband sees this as degrading and that he's being treated as a servant."

It's not necessarily degrading but the wife should not ask/expect this treatment all the time.
For example, if he is in the kitchen and she wants a drink or if he is walking by the remote or already going to the store, then it should not be a problem but it should not be the norm to go out of his way to do this.

They are not usually situations where I'm on my way to do something. Many times I and her are sitting on the couch watching TV and she asks me to go get her a drink of water. Same thing at bed time. We are both in the bed and she wants me to go put on a "sleep" CD or get up and turn the lights out or go get her a drink of water. She says this makes her feel pampered and is one of her emotional needs and is an important part of her feeling loved. Yet to me, I find it demeaning. It literally violates my "morals". It's no different than a guy sitting on the couch watching sports asking his wife to go get him beers. Why can't he get it for himself? It's one thing if the wife volunteers or he asks with the mindset that it's a request that she can turn down. But what if the husband said that it was an important part of him feeling loved that his wife bring him beers as he watches Tv?

but is' a small thing isn't it?

Maybe you could negotiate this?

My ex does this all the time and I realized it's because he waits on people during the day so he doesn't get his EN met at all. Is your wife getting her EN needs met during the day? One person can't do it all.

Nat

Basically, the rule is that neither spouse should agree to do something they resent doing, or that will cause them unhappiness.

Some things may be simply beyond a person's comfort level, and they should not be pressured/let themselves be pressured into doing it. But, many, many others are things that can be addressed via a couple of MB concepts...."respectful persuasion" and the POJA.

When confronted with a request that one doesn't feel comfy doing, each partner can explain what meeting/not meeting this request means to them...how they feel about it. Then they can brainstorm together how to find a way to meet both person's emotional needs....and it may not involve the original request at all. The brainstorming is a key element.

Kathi

In a good marriage both partners should enjoy doing things for the other. If H (the one who likes S&M, since I am not sure if "dom" in other posts stands for dominated or domineering or what) wants S&M and W does not, then it is very clear that H should go out of his way not to impose on her because he knows that she does not like it. OTOH, she should go out of her way to fulfill his sexual desires. Basically do things for the other partner. Because there is such a great overlap, then there really should be no problem.

However, in this case the answer does not lie in W submitting to S&M for thesake of H's needs. I really don't see how H could ever enjoy S&M with W if he knows that she is just going through the motions, not getting anything out of it, and just simply doing it for him. This is pretty distrubing to me. It is just making love to your partner without the partner being in the mood. In such a case the S&M session is no more than masturbation using W as a sex object, instead of an expression of love. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

But to answer this hypothetical:
(1) Just go part way: Instead of H tying W down and whipping her, how about just tying her down? If she is not comfortable being tied down, how about just tying her hands? If she is not comfortable with even that, just holding her down? There is a happy medium where W will be comfortable enough for her to do it. Once she is OK with that, and sees how it effects H, maybe a couple of similar session and several months later it can progress further.

(2) Aural sex: occasionally, while having the plain vanilla sex, she can tell him how she is tied up, how she is whipped, or whatever his fantasies are.

(3) Porn. He can satisfy his S&M fantasies on his own. It is his release without imposing on W.

Look, wasp, if H knows that W likes to be pampered, then he should go out of his way to pamper her. He should turn off the lights, and the CD player, etc. And W should not have to ask to have that done for her.

He actually should go beyond that. If she asks for water (as if he didn't know), he should give her Perrier or spritzer, or her favorite wine.

Chicks like to be pampered. They appreciate being pampered. And they are very thankful to anyone who pampers them. Welcome to the real world.

(I still don't understand about the TV remote. If H & W are watching TV together, she really should not have to worry about the remote.)

I agree with Average Guy.

I for instance will ask my husband at times to do things like this for me and he always complies.

That is because I always meet his needs for SF, and if he calls me and says "I've had a rough night- will you draw me a hot bath- I'm on my way home" I will do it and have a glass of sweet tea waiting for him as well.

It makes us feel loved, just like when she does something for you that you like.

It's true that if your love bank is empty every issue becomes huge.

Service to your spouse is not suposed to make you feel like a servant- it should be a honor.

If you're being asked to do something painful or past your boundaries- like for me would be S&M- then that's a whole different story. Getting the CD for her is not painful.

I know I'm the one asking advice here and so I need to graciously accept it but I still tend to disagree with AG and others. I think it really comes down to one thing... is it a request or is it a demand? A husband to ask that his wife do S&M with him is one thing. If she says no he should be cool about it. If she's willing to try, great.

But I don't think it's ok that my wife ask me to go get her some water or the remote or something just so she can feel like she is a princess with a servant. And if it were just a request, no big deal. But essentually, she's TELLING me to do it because she will give me such a hard time and tell me I don't make her feel loved etc etc. Her reaction if I say no makes it a demand.

One of you mentioned your husband asking you make up a bath for him for when he gets home. I agree, that is perfectly reasonable because you are at home and he is not. That is reasonable because it saves time. But if you are both home with nothing to do, and your wife wants you to go run get it simply because she's too lazy to do it herself... that just seems wrong. I also think that a guy asking his wife to fetch beers for him while he watches the game is wrong. If she does it because she enjoys doing it for him, that's different. But imagine a husband that would get annoyed at his wife who didn't want to fetch him beers. I would feel like I was treating my wife bad if I did that to her and so I expect the same treatment in return.

I think that no matter what, you're still dealing with the empty LB problem, and so really, some of this is secondary to the real issues. More symptoms than causes.

If your W is telling you that she doesn't feel loved, then you need to work on doing the things that *make* her feel loved. And if it's getting her a glass of water occasionally, then you need to do it. Really, what's the harm? This is a relationship, not roommates. The focus is on drawing closer together, not styaing arms-length.

Of course, you need a reasonable boundary. You're not going to get every glass of water she needs, and frankly, if she treats you poorly when you do, or doesn't thank you when you do, then I think I'd move the boundary to no water until those responses change.

And in your examples, like the H wiht the beers and such, the issue isn't so much the refusal, it's how the person gets treated when they say no. That's a separate problem.

Let me try again.

You have stated several times in different forums that she likes to be pampered, and boss you around while lying in bed. So I assume that this is not a once in a while request from left field, but rather a regular occurrence.

You also state that it is not the action that you have to go through (such as fetching her water or whatever), but the fact that she insists on having you do it. To you it sounds like an order to a servant.

So, let's recap:
(1) you know what she wants;
(2) you don't mind doing what she wants; but
(3) you do mind her telling you what she wants.

Think that problem through.

My proposed solution: Beat her to the punch. Give her what she wants before she knows she wants it. If you do not give her a chance to order you she will not ask, you will not be asked.

Well, it normally wouldn't be a big deal to draw him a bath except his request for a bath is after midnight usually when he get off work and I've been in bed asleep for 2+ hours. To me, that shows real love.

When I ask for these things or he asks, we're always certain to say please and thank you and use a sweet tone.

Is your wife ugly when she asks??

Quick, good update.

This situation is no longer much of a conflict. She is doing an amazing job of trying to meet me half way this past week or two. Both of us are working out at a gym which I think helps diffuse stress anyway, so we are less likely to snap at each-other.

A couple of times, I have beat her to her request and asked her if she'd like some water or I'll put in the CD. Other times, she has gotton up and put in the CD herself. Last night, she said she wanted to put in the CD but was too lazy to get out of bed. I felt the same so we just didn't put it in and went to bed. I am very comfortable with where we are at right now. I don't mind voluntarily doing things for her or doing things when asked as long as she doesn't huff if I say no. I'll make it my goal to know her wants and do them before she asks.

So hopefully, this situation is resolved. Thanks guys!

I think you may have missed the MB mark here. The two of you need to work out the "huff" part in a mutually agreeable way, because you're allowed to say no.

The "Doing them before she asks" makes me very nervous, because you're in essence saying that you're going to try to read her mind, which is the *opposite* of clear communication.

So you may see some improvement but for quite possibly the wrong reasons.

I'd encourage you to read the Boundaries book, and perhaps it will give you a clearer insight as to the difference.

You're welcome. My bill is in the mail... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />