Question:

I am writing out a timeline when I talk to the Harleys.....It is getting long......so should I focus more on events since H left and less on the time before he left?

I worry I'll spend all my time just telling him my story....before we get to any advice from him.....

thank you...

Here's the thing: You can ask the folks at MB at any time, "Where should I start?" or "Do you want more/fewer details?". I would advise keeping your story shorter rather than longer, but you can definitely ask them if they need more details. Don't overthink this. They have lots of experience in this sort of thing and they will lead you through the process of giving them the information they need.

Steve is very easy to talk to, and I'm sure Jennifer is the same way. Don't worry, they'll help you out.

{{{{{{{{{{{Daisy}}}}}}}}}}}}

His immature, selfish, fog speak is not a reflection of you. You are right, you were there, and it was real. Don't let him deny you that. Maybe he is toying with the idea of pursuing this OW again and hopes to shock her into being with him by telling her he is moving to Mexico? Kind of like a Plan B for affairees? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I just wish people would grow up and take responsibility for their own happiness instead of trying to cast the burden onto one person who must meet all their "needs". For Pete sake, why don't these people just get a hobby!! (I mean wood working, etc. etc. etc.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

ncn....
Thanks. I think I'll try to keep it short...I'll write it out and highlight the important parts and if they want more info I'll have the rest ready there.



Shattered.
Thank you. I guess I am just in shock like all of us here that he is now talking like this. I do feel that he might have hoped that she be available and he could "finally be with his true love"..(blah!) and now it looks like she is not available and he may just be playing a sympathy card with her....his email came of to me as bitter and disappointing......

Looking at some of his other emails and drafts, he has been contacting all these girls from the past through out in the hopes of "having conversations"......somewhere he said that that is lucking in his life.....I know.....he would shut me out so much....it hurts to know he went searching elsewhere....and there are all these phone calls to OH (I assume to this Kim person) through out the M.....they are usually 1 minutes so I assume she was not there.....but I never heard of her and that is a big stab in the back!

I don't think there is much chance at working this out if he does leave the country....

Sometimes I just wish people would grow up and take responsibility for their own happiness instead of trying to cast the burden onto one person who must meet all their "needs".

He did say on Tuesday that he did not blame me but it is all crap! He is clearly in a mess and it is easier for him to blame the R and just believe I was not the one then to finally face LIFE.

I feel like way to much has happened and will I ever trust him if he ever returns to our universe???....

Daisy

ok...I went back to his account and got the email....

maybe someone can tell me if there is still any hope for our M.....is it all fog talk?

"All the best to you in work and love. Both subjects are rather bitter for me, but I am not yet a total skeptic I suppose. Work is endured, for now at least, and love has always been fleeting or disapointing. I was in love with a girl when I was eighteen but we soon grew apart. I've always been in love with you (I hope you are not embaressed by me saying this, I just think very foundly of you and always have) but it seems that throughout the past we have just not been meant to be together. I'm sorry for being ridiculous. Please don't be angry at me for saying this. I tried to make a marriage out of a friendship and that fell apart. Relationships like friendships like brief encounters with people I don't know have become more and more like another type of work. I'm applying for an english teaching job in Mexico to start in July. I hope I get it. I just want to keep moving. I look forward to the thirties also."

Any thoughts????

Thank you....
Daisy

Daisy,

Do (did) you and your H live near this person? Could they possibly have been meeting in person? Or is this email just out of the blue?

That email sounds a bit like the first emails that my W and the OM sent to each other. But that was only after they'd known each other through school for about a year or two.

My wife saved all of the emails that she and OM sent to each other, and I've read them. That was especially tough: reading about their relationship progressing, planning their secret meetings, talking about how to hide their meetings from me and OMW, etc.

ncn

IMHO I don’t think your H is having an A. You need to get more info. Ask him, follow him, snoop around, ask his friends. That is not an A letter it sounds to me like he is lonely and would like to get back with her.

With Steve Harley, I like to tape those conversations so I can listen without having to take notes and re-listen to get the full message of what he is teaching and advising me.

ncn...
We live in Western Canada, she in OH. I never met her. I went through some of my H's things in the basement and found a love letter that she wrote to him about how she always loves him and that he is the one...etc....she wrote that in 1997. Long time ago. So they sound like friends from HS.

Unless he met her in CA when he was visiting his parents then I cannot imagine when he last saw her.....Her family lives in OH as well, so I don't know what she would be doing in CA....

As I said, H has a lot of emails to girls that are in an attempt to reconect....thoughtout these last 5 years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. This email is especially painful and more personal than any others....alhtough there is some email where a girl says "how is your married like...I know S can be irritating...." that is in Spring of 2004...so who know what he has been telling her.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />..

I do think he is lost and in some way has relied on this R with her and just probably hoped that they could finally get together.....

I did not get the feeling from the email that she send him that she wants anything but friendship although she cares about him. She was genoully excited about this man she has been seeing (they are in the early exciting stages of their R) and is excited to have him stay at her place after the holidays....she ended the email with "love, your friend, Kim" His email is bitter (he does use that word) and feels like he was desapointed about her prospects.....she sounded all very happy about her work, school and love.....not something he wanted to hear I think....

One friend told me "misery likes company" and I think it is true.....many people have As here because they are not happy in their current situation....she does not sound unhappy.....yet she did express her love for him in that very old love letter and who knows she could still have feelings for him....but it was so long ago <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />???

Anyway, he souds realy in the fog to me....

I really wonder why he did not send it to her.....could H be peaking in every once in a while (as Orchid would say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)....

I do like the way he completely minimized our 4 year relationship...after all I am only the woman he married....right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />???

Daisy

Dkl,
Exaclty, I don't think he is having an A with HER....he does sound like he hoped to reconnect with her....and sound just dessapointed that yet again they cannot get together....

I don't want to snoop around....at least right now....I cannot risk following him around, I don't want a confrantation with him if he notices me. I did check up on him on Monday night...he was not at his place at midnight, 4am and then again at 9:30am....so there could definately be a ONS....I only got so much savings and I thought I would spend on the Harleys than on a PI...but I'll see what they think.

I really think he is lonely....When we saw each other this month most of the time he was happy to see me....last tuesday we met and he looked really happy to see me and talk to me....so I do think he is lonely but I cannot just be here for him without taking care of me! I am worried if I continue to be here for him, I'll just help him to move on at my expense.....

I'll talk to the Harleys and see what they say.....thank you for your thoughts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />....

Daisy

hey daisy

like you i was worried about what to spend my savings on. Talking to Jennifer has been a wonderful support. It turned out that I was able to do my own spying since i knew where my H lived...i saved myself the cost of a PI although i talked to one and went to meet with another. They both told me that if you take pictures yourself of your H cheating, they do not have as much value as when taken by a certified PI...but of course they would say that....i didn't need pictures though...turns out everyone knows they are living together. The law says all you have to prove is that they had the opportunity and the motivation to commit adultry...no one is goning to believe they are just room mates...then again...her husband told me that's all he thinks they are...poor, misguided guy

so what's yournext step?

hey eav....we must have cross posted...how is the bathroom looking???

This hour I am in "I am done with him" mode...but I know that next our I'll be back.....ahhh

I know that I am not done because whenever I ask myself "do I want to file for D"..the answer is no.

My plan. Call the Harleys first thing in the morning. Get an appointment and then wait till then. I don't know if I should contact H at all......really I feel completely used and I don't think he wants me around anyway.....I think I am better of waiting to see what S.H. says and what I should do than to just jump in myself right now.


I am not sure about the PI....I'll think on that....

Daisy

so,

Another day of snooping (yes I am still at it.....why do I do this to myself???).....

H has replied to his friend Kim....but he did not send her the email he wrote last night that was in his draft. He send that one to the trash folder....he has many emails in his draft folder...but I guess does not want to keep that one......I probably should not read to much into that!

So, only her respond now will show just how much he told her and whether a day of pondering changed his mind about how much to say....

I have mixed feelings about this....I am invating his privacy....yet at the same time this information does effect me.......


I found out also that if you put an email you receive into your draft folder and than reply to it from there, the original email is gone....automatically....so her original email is no longer there....I thought that was strange but I guess hotmail does not think you'll put your emails from inbox to the draft folder.....I am just blabering now....sorry....just kind off on edge here....


Daisy

Daisy,

The idea of snooping makes me feel horrible. I hate the things that this whole situation has brought out in me. I read my wife's email, I've scrutinized cell phone records, I've driven by her and OM's apartment to see if she went to visit her parents. I just yearn for anything to give me any insight into what's going on in her life. I hate snooping. Maybe I should just stop, but then I don't know how I'll get by without any idea of what's happening with her. It makes me feel pathetic.

Hmmm, I hate ending things on a negative note, so I'll add a smiley face. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"#01BB1E"]ncn[/color]

ncn.....

Yah, I hate what has happened to me......I trusted him to see his ex (one I have met) when he was in CA last year....I was not thrilled but I was not suspecious at all....

Look at me now.....I am so tempted to drive by his house tonight...ahhhh.....my mind is trying to convice me telling me that could be my excuse to actually set foot outside the door today....I feel pathetic as well....

So, are you celebrating TG? I took a day of today....I just could not face the day so I'll have to go work tomorrow....

It must be nice to have a 4 day weekend.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

ncn...

So, I checked the email in his junk box and it is slightly modified...I am so absessing about this....I know.....cannot seem to stop myself.....

Here is a copy:

You sound great (as far as such can be deduced from an e-mail). All the best to you in work and love. Both subjects are rather bitter for me, but I am not yet a total skeptic I suppose. Work is endured, for now at least, and love has always been fleeting or disapointing. I was in love with a girl when I was eighteen but we soon grew apart. I've always been so very fond of you and I think I always will be, but it seems we just are not meant to be (I hope you are not embaressed by me saying this, please don't be angry with me). I tried to make a marriage out of a friendship and that fell apart. Relationships like friendships like brief encounters with people I don't know have become more and more like another type of work. I look forward to the thirties also. Life is so beautiful even at its hardest and my lowest moments. I always like to hear from you. You are a brightness in the world I think.
Take care,

************

Well, he doesn't talk about Mexico anymore....and does not say ILY...yet....it is still sad to me......he is moving on.....says our R/M fell apart.....

He makes our R sound like a encounter between strangers....wow....

I am sure others here have read worse....How do you get past it....how do you not focus on it.......how do you keep fighting for your M????

Daisy

Not celebrating, just taking some time to relax. At my school, we didn't have classes all week... so it was actually a 9-day weekend for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I decided that I didn't really want to face my family with all that's been going on in my life, so I just chilled and relaxed for a week.

[color:"#01BB1E"]ncn[/color]

ncn....

lucky you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Continue enjoying.....

Daisy

Wow, that email from your H sounds creepily like several emails from the OM in my case (I always want to type "my OM" ... but that would add a whole other layer to my story <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) to my W. I'm trying to resist the temptation to go find some of his emails and post them for you to read. I've read them all several times, but it still hurts terribly every time I look at them. Anyway, they have the same "I'm a hopeless romantic" tone that your H's email has. It makes me angry and brings all kinds of bad emotions reading through your H's email. What the he[b][/b]ll is he thinking? What cheap romance novel does he think he's a character in?

What is your H's subject area in grad school (if you don't mind my asking)?

ncn....

sorry....I posted the emails hoping for some insight....sorry it just hits close to home.....that is an insight for me.....H's emails is like a WS email...he is lost.....I am really hurt by all this...should not be probably, afterall he has been gone for 6 months.....but I am. I really thought, fullishly, that he still loved me and that he would miss me and that he would try to at least call me.....I see now that the state he is in, he will not call me, probably is glad I will leave him alone......I feel so used, I mean month an a half ago he showed up in my bedroom at 4 in the morning and held me close and we got intimate....and now he has completely minimized our 4 year R to someone......

Anywya, I got to get over it....life goes on....

BTW..it was history...he quit that...

Daisy

That's a WS talking NOT your H. Of course he would minimize it..... you didn't marry the WS, you married your H. Your R was and is with your H not this morphed creature.

Seriously, don't allow yourself t/b hurt by the words of a WS. If you are gonna spill any tears, do it when they come from your H.

BTW, think about asking to speak to your H and get the WS confused. Now there's a plan!

L.