well, I am not doing too well today. I lost some glimmer of hope that I had. I'm just too dazed....I know there are WS who have come back even after D....it just does not seem that way to me in my situation....H is really gone. I know Orchid sais it is the WS...but with no A, is a S that leaves really a WS? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I mean anyone should be free to leave a M when they are not happy, No? Is that flaud thinking?

I really hate to think I made H unhappy for the 2 years we were M. When we talked we would say how it was hard but we were doing better at resolving issues...but than he was always so down in the last 6 months that he just felt even though we were getting better (slowly) at comunicating....we had more bad times than good times....I really feel that during this time he had already given up and was down because that is all he kept thinking about.....

Yet, I just wish I knew what went wrong.....what made him see the whole situation as hopeless....what was it???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> There had to be some realization that he had that convinced him things were never going to change and that he married the wrong person and as much as we loved each other we were just not meant to be. This is how he feels. So, what made him loose hope?

I wish he would do me a favor and talk to ME finally and not just all these other girls. He is being so imature in all of this. He basically "broke up" with me so now he is free.....I cannot believe him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I am giving what Steve said a shot, mostly to gain an understanding and learn from this R. I don't expect H to do anything....he is not about to do me any favors. He could care less.

Just feel down today.

I know that if I had not looked at his emails I would have had more hope, but is it not good to have some information than no information at all? I mean he is not telling me anything. Don't worry I am not going to go look at his emails anymore.....

Just thinking outloud.

Daisy

Daisy,

DId you know that you have to be seperated for a year in our province before you can file for divorce - unless there has been adultry or abuse?

Has he filed for a legal seperation yet? If not - you have a long time before divorce proceedins can even begin. Lots of things can heppen between now and then.

SOOO - instead of looking at the fact he may file, etc - look at the Plan A you and Steve talked about. You are thinking TOO far ahead!!! Think about today and tomorrow!! That's far enough ahead!

You will deal with a divorce if it actually happens when the time comes...right now concentrate on one day at a time k?

QUOTE

In Canada there is only one ground for divorce: breakdown of the marriage.

Paragraph 8 (2) of the Divorce Act states that "Breakdown of the marriage" is established only if:


(a) the spouses have lived separate and apart for at least one year immediately preceding the determination of the divorce proceeding and were living separate and apart at the commencement of the proceeding; or


(b) the spouse against whom the divorce proceeding is brought has, since the celebration of the marriage:


(i) committed adultery, or


(ii) treated the other spouse with physical or mental cruelty of such a kind as to render intolerable the continued cohabitation of the spouses."

The most common way to establish a breakdown of the marriage is to prove that the spouses have lived apart (have been separated) for at least one year immediately before the divorce judgment is granted and were living separate and apart at the time the proceedings began. That is, if you are using one year of separation to establish the breakdown of the marriage you can't begin the proceeding until after the spouses are already separated and can't finalize it until at least one full year of separation.

Daisy please hang in there. I am following your progress and it has been an insperation for me. Yes I have very bad days too and I think we will have a lot of them. Did you get a P.I. in then end or not yet? It is sad we sit on a friday and try to find a way to get our loved ones back and they are out there haveing FUN..

Take care
Van

Dorry,
Yes, I know that I have a one year period before I can D. So, Yes I know that I really have 6 more months before a D can even happen IF they consider him leaving in May the official starting date. IF us "working" on the M till the end of Aug, does not count toward the 1 year mark...then I still have 9 months to wait before D. And lastly if I have to have a LS first, than my countdown is yet to begin ( don't think this is the case though)....because I have not filed and H ~ let me be sarcastic for a bit here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ~ now, why would he file, he is not married anymore <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Ok, I got that out of my system. So, to answer the question, no LS filed, no D filed, no D talk. H "broke up with me" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.....(sorry I could not help it).

Well, I am off to get the book HN/HN. I just read lemmon's thread and it was quite helpful to me.....the discussin is interesting....and I think I really need to work in understanding the whole admiration and man topic......I worry that I may come to the conclusion that LEM suggested that there may be less to admire about H....but lets cross that bridge when I get to it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for checking up on me dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How are you doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Daisy please hang in there. I am following your progress and it has been an insperation for me. Yes I have very bad days too and I think we will have a lot of them. Did you get a P.I. in then end or not yet? It is sad we sit on a friday and try to find a way to get our loved ones back and they are out there haveing FUN..

Van....what is so insperational about my progress? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I am so confused still....will the confusion ever end?

To answer your question no I did not get a PI. I have done my own snooping and it all has been quite painful and I will at least follow Steve's advice and not follow H around (or have him followed around).....I have not been by his house in days....I checked the stupid email again and I will not do it anymore...it is way too painful to know what he is writing to these girls out there that he has not seen in years<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />.....(BTW..my friend does say it is easier for him to tell strangers as they will have less questions and are likely to be on his side and he'll get their sympathy ~ which he has gotten so its working out for him).......Anyway, all this snooping is not solving anything for me and I will just go and follow Steve's advice to the letter now! I will read the book (got till next Wednesday) and then I will give it to H. I will do as much as I can in getting him to agree to look at it, but I will not gravel at his feet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />, no person on earth is worth that much!

I don't know your story....I'll have to check into it! Hope you are doing well now and thank you very much for checking in over here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...

All the best....

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Daisy the last few days of my last week.
I am a full time student b/c DW pushed me and now WW does not want me or any contact with me.
I wake up look out side at the new snow. I think well this is start of new great day. I go to class where I use ally gave the relationship advice. I am 10 years older than most at class. I thought I had it made. A DW that I deeply love. But now I feel like the biggest looser. I still wait for WW text or call. We have text or called every day since we got together. But there is nothing from her now. She is right in one sense that I became to dependant on her. I know that if she would walk thru the door now and say lets try. I would be the happiest I have ever been.
Sorry lost track of my story there, In the morning I go to class happy and thinking yep new day new things, I enjoy my studies. But then the lecture start and my thoughts start to wander how can I just get her back, I should just phone her and say just stop it and lets go back and work on it. But then I know there is no way WW would listen to me. Then I get depressed and think why am I sitting here in class what is the point, I was doing this for us. I have lost my motivation to study, my study friends helped me a lot in this time. Then I rush home to get to this web site just to get some hope that I could get DW back.

On the other hand as you said am I doing wrong to try to keep her. WW does sound happy when WW speak to OM and it does hurt because she speaks in a tone that she use to use on me. I do like it when WW is happy. I did the exposure (which I did not enjoy) and did make WW very unhappy and even that hurts me to see that unhappiness. But OM is WW father's age and she said that there is no hope for them but it just tells WW that we are no supposed to be together because of the fact that WW could do this because it is against her own morels.

One more problem, I do not speak the local language and to get a MC that is pro marriage and speaks English is impossible. So it is people like you and all the others on MB that is my only hope and guide. All WW family said that WW does not deserve me and I should move on. It would be very easy on paper but not emotionally just to give up.
WW said to her sister in an e-mail that she does not regret having an affair. This last statement has been getting to me big time and I don’t know why WW has said a lot meaner stuff to my face.
To sum this up. I am going thru the same thought process as you.

van (sorry for stealing your space)

Van, you are not taking up MY space....it is public space..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So, you say you don't talk. Has all contact between you stoped?

I think my M is heading that way. H does not call me anymore (still did in Oct.) and we don't hang out anymore (still did in Nov.). As time goes on the contact is less and less and in no time will be zero....I feel it from him<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />.

Called him yesterday and we chated for about 30 minutes....me asking questions and he did the talking....he asked me how my dinner with friends went.....I asked mostly about him, but it is getting increasingly difficult to talk to him as he really does not sound like he even wants to do that anymore and since at the same time he is writing these emails to these girls....it is really not surprising that he wants to limit contact. At the end of the conversation he said "well, thanks for the call" and good buy....He did not sound like he really much cared that I called and just kind of did it out of some type of cortesy to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....ahhh

anyway, sorry about your situation. I know how you feel. I myself go to work come back home to this big house and look around and it all seems so silly, how I cared about the house and all. I was doing it for 'us' not for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I cared to have it all nice so that we could enjoy it, and now I am here alone, and don't really enjoy it.

I am tired. And really I have lost any hope. There is a part of me sadly that wonders why I am doing so much work and why I am willing to work so hard at this when he gave up so soon and went on his own and left everything we build together... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />...and who cares if he loved me or not. I cannot understand how he could throw love away...no I am not some silly romantic but still....anyway, he figures starting from scratch is the key...well, good luck to him.

Best to you van <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.....again I am sorry for the hurt and pain you are going through....

Daisy

I am so sorry you are going through this Daisy. I am going through this myself, and it is something you wish you never needed to experience.

I know your WH will regret his decision, if he continues on this path in the future. We just do not know when that would happen, but that would happen. Soon he will learn that the grass is greener on the other side.

Hang in there Daisy.

so I got the book HN/HN read through the first few chapters....

I know H is not going to like this book at all if he agrees to look at it that is. He does not like generalizations and when he sees the titles of chapters he will be put off! I know him. He did not like the book 7 principles in making a M work (or something like that) for that reason. I know for a fact that conversation is his top need and that one is not on the top 5 for man so he will be very critical of it. It seems to me that the top 3 for woman (affection ~ he loves hugs, conversation, openenss) is more what he would have....and then the admiration and sexual. The fact that SN is first will be a red flag for him. I don't know about the other 3 on the man side...probably not so important...(but then I think that is because I met those).

I am really worried. First I don't think he will agree to look at the book. He has been so distant that I don't think he wants to be reminded that I am out here yet alone asking him to read a book on M. I will be asking him to look at it to help me, but still, if he agrees to look at it (he will not read it, I know him) he will be critical at best........

I don't mean to be negative, but even when things were going well between us and I was reading a book on R he was critical....so now in his state of negativity relating to us...I don't see how this can have an impact.

Well, I'll still try.....I hope he can at least talk to me and tell me where I was not meeting his needs so that I walk away from this M with some understanding.....Of course he can always say, well every man is different, so you'll anyway have to figure the next guy out from scratch, you don't need me to help you....or something like that.


Daisy

You might be surprised since the book is about EMOTIONAL NEEDS. Be sure to say exactly whatever STEVE told you to say.

I was coached by Steve and tried to do exactly what he said. I was shocked about how RIGHT ON TARGET he was..

My H even agreed to talk to him after I told him what Steve told me to say..

WOW..I remember how shocked I was...

It's a long hard road...though

I think you just might be pleasantly (for want of a better word) surprised..

mimi....

Thank you. you are ever the optimist.....I have noticed.

I am happy you are in recovery....we need people like you around to give us some hope.....I know if nothing else I will be in personal recovery at some point...kind of in lots of pain right now.....

I do hope H surprises me.....but so far it has been in the opposite direction.....

Daisy

Daisy:

You said:



This is why I tried to stay on top of that thread...

IMO, it is not helpful for you to feel hopeless at this point..try not to give in to the sense of hopelessness that will try to overcome you...

TRY TO REMAIN ENERGIZED as suggested by Steve...

STAYING AS HOPEFUL AND ENERGIZED AS POSSIBLE IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY DURING PLAN A.....

I came to MB to maintain my HOPEFULNESS.....

Daisy, you mentioned my OPTIMISM...

I absolutely have to look at life this way in order to battle DEPRESSION...

I personally cannot understand the usefulness or helpfulness of a negative outlook...

It irks my OS, who says to me, when I try to encourage him... that he is a "REALIST"....

Well, I think it is just as realistic to be optimistic as it is to be pessimistic..

If you don't know what the future holds, why not assume the positive..that is more ENERGIZING..as Steve H said to you...


It's the way that I absolutely have to live my life.... It has worked well for me...passing this on to you for thought...

BTW, in case anyone is interested, there is a great self-help book about this entitled LEARNED OPTIMISM by Seligman.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good morning Daisy~
I'm sorry for the pain and turmoil you are going through.
I understand completely how awful it feels to find the email
your WH has been sending- I used to feel the same way when
I had access to his cell phone bill and would see all the
calls, many of which ended up being to women he had been
"meeting" on web sites. He changed the access a few months
ago where I can't get into it anymore, which in a way has
probably been good.
I think from the messages he's sending that he's definitely
in the same "boat" as my WH. Both are suffering from some
depression and/or other mental/emotional issues and instead
of doing something about it and accepting that their issues
are inside THEM, they are blaming it on the most convenient
thing- us and the marriage. My WH has been unhappy and
discontent to some degree as long as I've know him, and
you'd think he'd realize by now that changing jobs, homes,
cars, even people has not changed how he feels, and isn't
going to because the problem is IN him. I've always told
him that having these issues is not his fault but that his
not doing anything about it IS his fault. He's tried quite
a few different meds, has briefly tried therapy, but if he's
still having these issues, seems obvious to me that he's
either been mis-diagnosed, is on the wrong meds, or needs
to stick with therapy until it helps him. Sounds like your
WH has previously or is still taking meds, but if he's still
deluded and looking for a source for his problems outside
on him, he doesn't have his depression under control either.
Have you talked to him any about this ? Any change of him
going for an evaluation, review of meds, change of meds,
counseling ? Marriage counseling together ?

I'm glad you were able to talk to Steve, and from all the
details here from people who have counseled with the Harleys
it sounds like his advise is usually very effective. I know
it's really hard to see much hope, but things do seem to
turn around really quick sometimes. You've done really
well at working on you and doing your own thing, but at
least having a "plan" does make you feel like you are doing
what you can to work on restoring your M.

I'll update my post regarding a conversation with my WH
and my IC session-
Hang in there and don't give up
Slammed

mimi...thank you. I will try to stay possitive. Keep the enery level up.
Slammed....Thank you for you post....

I don't know what to say regarding H and his depression. It is very likely that he will have that for the rest of his life. I know it became difficult for him to deal with me 24-7.....I don't know if that was because I am a difficult person to live with and hence with someone else it will be easy or not......Don't have the answers and I am getting to the point where it does not make much sense to me to analyze my H on my own out here.....

The emails have been very painful to me and that is why I am following Steve's advice and I will not read any more....At first I was on the hunt, to find out if there was an A. That is what I was getting from here that it would be to my benefit to know that, more info the better. Now, I don't know if there is an A or not, all I found was info that did not reveal any of that to me and only revealed to me just how much my H does not want this M.....is he in the famous "fog"? Is he a WS? Is he confused? Is he not thinking clearly? I don't know. I don't know what he is thinking.....the emails just revealed bits and pieces that probably do not compromise 5% of what is on his mind regarding us.

So, I told myself, no more analyzing....what do I want? I want to speak with him....and I want to still see him.....and I want to know from him what "needs" I was not meeting......I know I am young, but I am 30 and I am not getting any younger and I do not want to enter another relationship and repeat my mistakes because I had not learned from this situation and did not know that those were my mistakes. I just want to have more information.....I know he may refuse to inlighten me....but it does not hurt to ask....beyond that I will just have to do my own recovery and read and read and hopefully interpret what I read corectly so that it benefits me in my next R.

I have not given up on this one, but I know that there are no guarantees so I may end up in another R....it does not scare me anymore......I am not rushing into one....but it is not so scary....I know I can live without my DH.....yet I love him so much I want him in my life for now.....and I will do what I can to have him there......

I have been having some health problems and I realized that my health was much more important to me.....I ended up calling H (somewhat expecting for him to tell me not to call him anymore)....I wanted to share with him what has been happinning with me not to get his sympathy but because I still consider him my friend and I want to share that with my friend.....we had a nice chat....he was quite concern....so I am glad to know he still cares about me....yes, he might have lost all hope for the 2 of us, but he cares about me, has not been mean or nasty to me.....and that is good enough for me....to continue to want him in my life....for now anyway......He would have driven up to see me, but as it turns out he has been driving around without car insurance and just found out that if he got pulled over that he could get a $3000 ticket, so did not want to risk it. He did ask me to come down and watch a movie with him and a friend...but I declined, I was really in pain and not up to any driving......He called me later and we talked again.....it was nice......then he called again this morning to check up on me...I am doing better today. I asked him to see a movie with me on Monday night and he agreed....

I don't know how I will feel about all this tomorrow ...but today I feel calm. If I loose H, my life will not end there....I hope there is some way we can be happy and have a good life and still somehow be there for each other and stay friends...don't know if that is too naive or just plain imposible....but we'll see....

That is how I feel today. I will do my best to restore my M with H.....but if need be I'll accept that that cannot be and find happiness in my life and hopefully share it with someone.....I know I made mistakes, but I am a good person and someone will see that....

Daisy

Hi daisy,
I know I made mistakes, but I am a good person and someone will see that....

Daisy
Well I think I speak for a lot of people here and yes you are a good person and we can see that. If WH does not see it, it will be his bigest mistake and you can be proud of yourself in knowing that you did every thing you could have. But keep taking it one day at a time.

Van

Van...thanks.

I have been doing a lot of thinking today....I am really ashamed of myself for invading my H's privacy.....there is no excuse for it and I will have to live with that...it was a low point of my life....I have been thinking just how hurt H would be if he saw my thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....I have not spoken so nicely of him here and he would most likely be hurt much more than I was from the emails he wrote. I married him for a reason...yes he has faults as do I....but he has so many good qualities....he never fails to reasuring me and even in our short conversation today he again complemented me big time and that is what triggred it for me....I did not do that for him.....I have been so critical of him in the past and even now.....I think a lot of my criticism now has been a result of the pain I am in since I am loosing him but still....not a good excuse.....he has many good qualities and he is a good man....he has a lot of growing to do as do I....I really hope he finds happiness in his life with someone....I do not wish anything but the best for him....

Daisy

White Daisy,

I remember my cream was Nivea, while I still had some, and it was their night cream. It just took me a while to recall.

Don't beat yourself up about the privacy issue. It has been over 5 months in recovery for us, and I still check every day. He knows I check, but while I don't hide it, I don't make a big deal out of it, either.

I am sure the main reason Steve told you not to investigate right now was NOT because it was wrong, (it isn't), but because you only have a limited amount of energy and need it more in other areas.

Neak

P.S. At first I was very ashamed of snooping also, and even apologized to him during the A for reading the text messages on his phone. I told him I would never touch his phone again, and I didn't. By that time I had found out I could read his text messages online. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So maybe I wasn't as sorry as I thought.

no so you neak....

I use the day time cream and I will get the night time as well....thanks! I actually just need to start drinking more water...it has always been an issue for me and now has become even more so...I just don't drink enough! (water that is)

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts. The thing about the snooping is that I know that H would not forgive me and that is why I cannot tell him about it.....and that makes me a coward and makes me ashamed...and sad.....

Anyway, I guess I just don't believe that it was not wrong....S.H did say he could understand that I did that....given all the pain and all....but I myself am not convinced that now.....now that some days have gone by and I can get a little perspective....I really don't think it was right for me to go and read something that was not intended for me.....if H did that to me I don't think I would be pleased...I know I would forgive him though......I don't think he would forgive me though....

Daisy

hey daisy

i think many of us here have snooped-after all....these are our HUSBANDS or WIVES and wehave a right to know what they are doing!! It affects us too!! and it IS better to know the truth...and THEY sure aren't going to tell us are they??

some are bold about it and some are sneaky

i sneaked up to the window of H new place at 3:00 in the morning and peeped in the window!!

hope you feel a little better about yourself now:)