Stu.....

I am really sorry for your situation....I guess I just see myself heading that way......

I hope him staying at our house watching the cats for me, gets him thinking............

I am afraid he is done....those emails got me into a real panic....have not checked any since last thursday (ok, not that long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...but I feel prity good about that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)....I felt that I lost him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....and I am trying really hard to reach out to him and keep the contact.....maybe I am naive, but I did realize this weekend that I want to be in his life....on some level. I want him to always think of me as his friend at least....I hope for more, but I want at least that. Now, I don't know how I can handle him in another R with someone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />....I hope that if that happens, by that time, I'll be in a better place where I'll just be happy for him.....now, it is way too painful to consider.

Sadly, a part of me got really panicky last week after I read those emails. I got the feeling like these women are replacing me and that hit me hard. I don't want to be replaced <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

I am a little worried as I will have very limited contact with H over the next month. I don't worry that much when he is here while I am visiting my friend....but once he is in CA over the holidays....I worry about that, because last time when he went he completely ignored me and then send me the email about being just friends....I don't know what it is his family is saying to him (I know they support his decision) or what all that hanging out with old friends (or girlfriends) does but something about him going home just scares me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />......I guess it is best not to think about it and just start from scratch in Jan if I have to.

Best to you.....thanks for you thoughts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

daisy

you are much stronger than i am....i can't ever be friends with my H if we are not together

i don't want to know about the life that he is creating without me

i wouldn't be supportive of him being happy with someone else...a friend would

it would hurt me too much to know....

eav....

As I said, I just might be naive......right now the way I am thinking is that I like who he is....he has flaws but we all do and he has so many great qualities.....the thing is that reallity is that we probably will not be able to stay friends.....the fact is staying friends might just be a constant reminder to both of us.....and further more....no new partner will be comfortable with me being friends with my ex and vice versa.....and finaly, it is very unlikely that he will be the same guy that I love, the goofy guy I like, if we are just friends...and I guess he just will not be the same person to me.......

So, as you can tell, I am really confused......

I just know he is a good guy and I'd like to still hear his stories and thoughts....

I am not that strong eav.......I wish I was like mel here......

Daisy

I agree, I went through a phase when I wanted to be friends w/ my W, but I don't think I'll be able to handle the pain. I don't think I'll ever be able to move on if I did.

stu, eav....

I am still kind of confused on this topic....today I feel like I want at least to be friends......who knows how I'll feel tomorrow....being just friends is really painluf...but nothign at all is worse........

Daisy

i do understand that Daisy...right now I'm happy just to be "anything" with my h that keeps me somehow connected to him...but in the long run..if he doesn't come home...i will have to end all contact permanently...when i decide that i can't do this anymore...when i have no more hope left...i can't ever know about his new life without me

i've suvivied all of this somehow..but if i try to do this for too long...it would destroy me....i don't want to see him happy with someone else...sharing the life he should be sharing with me

i don't want to see him happy with someone else...sharing the life he should be sharing with me

This is the part I am still strageling with.......will I ever be able to see him with someone else and just be happy for him? I would have to be in a very different place then I am today. I think I would have to be way past this and in a new R......I am not there yet by any means!

Daisy

hmm...lets see...under what conditions would i wnat to see my H with ow?

i would be driving by thier crappy HUD house in the limo of my very rich husband...i would try to wave but the HUGE diamond ring given to me by my new man to express the enormity of his love for me would weigh my hand down...then i would see four children piling into the OW minivan, the OW would be tired and haggered as she got into the van and my H would be climbing sadly behind the wheel

soooo now I've had my laugh for the night...just trying to be cheerful as mel said!

eav,
LOL.......great visual!

yes, keep it up, smile when you can, laugh when you can, and cry if you must.....that is my motto now!

Daisy

just had another thought

plan A stuff?

while you are away for the holidays...you could send some e-cards-nothing serious-just to keep in touch along with the e-mails (i've sent some with jokes about dogs and about his favorite football team)

remember, plan A is when you show then that you COULD and WOULD be willing to...meet thier emotional needs

you said communication was your H #1!!

Hi Daisy,

Sorry I haven't checked in for a while..., I have been feeling just way down these days.

But Eav, your posting about under what conditions you might feel happy for your WH to be with OW... just cracked me up! Hey, I can think something like that too myself! I actually had a very nice dream the other day which DID make me happy for a moment...

Hugs Daisy....

Milk

Thanks eav.....

Now I got to figure out how they work....yes, I am not much of a gadgets person...I am one of the few without a cell phone...my high tech toy now is the recorder...which I used now to record the messages H left on my machine....how sad.....

Thanks though...I planed to send him a post-card from there.....

What are your thoughts on sending Christmas cards to his parents? Did you send one last year (or are you sending one this year?)?

I did buy him a present for christmas. When we talked last week we talked about history and he said there is this one book written by a prof. he would have worked with in CA had we not moved.....so I found the book and I hope it gets here before he leaves for the holidays....he said he really would like to read it.....I also thought I would buy him one more book that he pointed out to me at the bookstore last week.....a book of poems....it is his favorite poet. Is that too much stuff to get? I mean, I would not want him to think I am over doing it....

Daisy

Today is not going too well. I am in complete conflict <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. On one hand it makes sense to me to Plan A and be aloof and try to woo my H back ...... yet, at the same time I have this need to tell him that I realize just how much I love him and want a life with him (I don't need him, but would like him in my life)....I get why I fell in love with him and it was not because I was lonely (as he says)....but because he has a lot of great qualities...he is a good guy ........ I realize now what I have lost him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and I don't want to loose him completely....I want a chance to rebuild and have a wonderful relationship with him, cause I have changed and I am not that silly girl that got hurt by any little thing he said....he can tell me anything....I know I am strong enough to handle the tough questions and tough opinions without shutting down and refusing to speak to him etc........I want him to know all this even if he does nothing what so ever about rebuilding with me...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I called this morning again to ask for the ring....I thought I would say "I'd like to know if you would consider giving it back to me, because I know I gave it back in anger....it means a lot to me......etc...."

He was not there.....and now he is at work till 8pm and I got a lot of hours to get through before I get another chance to call again.....darn.....

I wish I knew what was best <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.....no R talk at all......or some R talk.........it just seems we already did the no R talk for 3 months and it did not solve anything..........and now it has only left me feeling that I have not done enough to fight for my M <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />......

I know I cannot convince him to work on it, but I can tell him how I feel and give him something to think about.........

We had that big talk 2 weeks ago (well just me talking him listening) and he did not say anything and now I wonder if it may be just too early to talk again........

And really, what I want is for him to talk to me.......for him to tell me something, no matter how painful it will be to me.........I just want to know where he stands.......and I feel I have done a lot for him to have earn some words on this subject............no matter how painful or vague......

Daisy

Hi Daisy ~
I am feeling really conflicted today too ~
I didn't sleep well and dreamt about WH and the situation,
which meant I woke up tired and also feeling like my head
is swirling with all kinds of thoughts and frustration.

I'm in the same boat- wondering if it's better to do more
of a Plan A and not talk about R, or if it's better to try
to talk about things. Seems like I've tried Plan A, B (sort of), the "180's" and have really not been able to tell
any difference no matter what I did !

I have felt bad about our get-together on Sunday not going
very well. Don't know what put WH in such a terrible mood
or made him late (nothing he should be upset with me about
since it was before we even got together), but I think it
probably left him with a very "sour" taste about me or us,
and he seemed to use it to reinforce all his negative ideas
and thoughts - (like saying we had nothing in common, that
we couldn't get along, etc.)

Since I assume he is still "thinking about things", "trying
to sort things out", and deciding what to do about OW, etc.
I hate to have his last thought of he and I be negative-
Thought it might be good to try to get us back in a more
positive mood (kind of like doing a really good Plan A
before you go to "B" and leaving them with good thoughts).
Does this make any sense ?

I called and left a msg for WH today, asking if he would like to go out to dinner tonight. Tried to sound light and
casual and said "just give me a call and let me know if it's
a good day for you", and that "I'd be getting off work early
and would be home working on the tree with the dog".
He hasn't called back so far, but if he does and declines
dinner, thought I'd just be very "okay" about it, and
keep the conversation short and positive. If he does want
to go, then I'll try my best to put things back in a better
light, like just being upbeat, friendly, not ask about OW
or A, not talk about R/M, etc.

Otherwise, will just be doing my decorating and then maybe
a bath and early to bed.

I think your plans to leave a few little subtle "reminders"
around the house while he "cat sits", and nice gifts are
a good way to reassure your WH of your care for him without
being "overpowering" !
Slammed

Slammed.....
Thank you for your thoughts.

All the questionning gets tiring does it not? You probably don't want to do plan B right now, after this fight. You might want to wait till after the holidays when that insident is not in his mind anymore. That is my 2cents anyway. I admire how you can keep up with all this. See, your H has been in "I want to figure things out" for so long and you are so patient.....I was not able to do that....I pressured him....I wanted some sort of commitment....well, I got one....he committed to move on.....I would give anything for him to tell me he is trying to figure things out......has not completely written us off.....but I am afraid he has. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am really strageling today. I want to talk to him. I think I will call him today about the ring and talk to him about us more. I just feel the need to do so before I leave. I cannot give up, and not talking about it at all feels like I have. I know we talked 2 weeks ago, but there is more that I need to say and I would like to say it before we go on holidays and all....

Maybe I'll feel better later on tonight....

Is it crazy to want to talk about us again? Is it too soon again (we talked 2 weeks ago)?

Daisy

hey daisy

i did get my H gifts last year-a model of a car he has wanted since we started dating to add to his collection and a dvd from the boys

my H always sent out our christmas cards so i thought that if i sent one to his dad it would look very "planned" so i didn't...it was the first time in more than 20 years that his dad didn't send me a card....that hurt

it seemed to me that the harder i fought to keep my H...the harder he fought against me...

at times i feel like i've given up by not fighting anymore...but having a plan...one that at least keeps me from lovebusting and give the OW time TO lovebust isn't giving up the fight...it's just changing my tactics...Jennifer says that there's really nothing i can do...I've done a great plan A, I've accepted my part in allowing our relationship to get to the point that the affair happened, and i'm committed to makimg changes that would allow me to meet my H needs if i get the chance to try again...she said that only when the OW has to try to meet ALL of my h needs because i'm no longer willing to meet ANY...might he start to miss me...and the lovebusting should have started at least a little by now...i supposed to let THEM do the fighting now...

i really don't know what i would do in your situation where there is no OW...

i guess i would still be in plan B in the hopes that he wouls miss me...and realize that he made a mistake

but of course the fear would be that he would move on without me

is that how you feel?

Eav....

Thank you!

Yes, I am afraid to go to plan B......He probably does not have anyone....so I don't see how LoveBusting would help here. I am afraid he is already moving on without me. I question my plan A. Was it good...should I keep it up....was it long enough.....?????

The fact is that just a month ago I felt a part of his life.....now I don't. Up to that point he still called me, no he doesn't really. Not on his own. A month ago he would call me and want to go out with me and wanted to come over etc.....now he hardly suggests anything....it seems to be always me. I don't mind but it does make me feel like if I did not put forth the effort I would not see him at all.....

I tell myself that it has not been very long at all....that it has only been 6 months.....that I should not give up.....but I get this vibe from him......and it tells me he is moving on without me........

Do you think talking to him again about my feelings on all this is too soon for R talk? Should I just wait another week?

I am just miserable today.....I cannot seem to stop crying....everything is a trigger today.

Daisy

daisy

i'm really in no position to give advice...but i do think he already knows how you feel about him and that you want to restore your relationship right?

Daisy,
He may just need some time to miss you. 8 mo ago, my W wanted a 6 mo trial N/C separation, I insisted on not doing it, the separation anxiety was just too great. I think she said she just wanted time for both of us to live apart and miss eachother, that way we come back with renewed committment to work on the R. In retrospect, perhaps I should've accepted so that perhaps I wouldn't be in my sitch today.

Thanks eav.....
Thanks stu.....
Maybe I should have read your email first stu, but by that time I was already involved in a serious conversation with him.

Once again I am left feeling without regrets. I do not regret my conversation 2 weeks ago and I don't regret this one. In some sense reading those emails prepaired me for this one.

I thought about it hard, about all he said, and I realize now it really was nothing new. He has been saying this to me even before we got married....I just was not listening and I think at the time he agreed to marry me because he did (and still does) love me and he truly meant what he said 3 days before the wedding "lets see what happens". This is his phylosophy on life in general. I accept that. If he ever does change, if he ever believes in more than "we were not meant to be" it will be years down the line and I am not going to wait around for that......

He is convinced, we were not meant to be, we do not have enough in common, we do not work. He hoped we would given how he felt about me and how I feel about him, but the fact is we don't work. I think he is still working it out though because many times he would say "we are not compatable or something....I don't understand it, cannot put it into words".....So, yes he is still figuring it out.

We talked for an 1 and a half. I did mention that I believe we were meant to be and we just did not have the tools to work out some things (probably a mistake ~ but I really felt I had nothing to loose in saying that)...was just confirmation to him that we were NOT meant to be....since we cannot even agree on this and we are not "on the same page". He was nice. Told me not to have regrets. He said he did not have any, however, he would never do anything like what we did now...graduating, getting married, and moving to a new country all within 2 weeks! I agree with him. I would never do that again. It was too much stuff going on, too much change.

He came of as very bitter to me. Said he would never get married again. Does not want to be with anyone for now, and really does not see that in his future (but then he did say he does not think about future much.....so true). He said we are just 2 different people with different goals and different ways of thinking what we want and how to go about it. I did say I was opening up more to see things from other perspectives, but here I do believe my words were just wasted on his......only action he will believe at this point).


I felt good talking to him because I finally found out what he is thinking (at least what he is thinking these days!). I did ask him why he did not want to do the MC anymore. He said he did not feel that it was helpful, that he really just wanted to stay friends. He felt if we had anything to say to just say it to each other.

He expressed his concern about me. Hoped I was not regretting somethings. Was sorry it was so hard on me....I told me I have good days and than hard days. I really spoke to him like to a true friend. It was a nice conversation....in many ways a conversation we never had. So, maybe he is right. He did say we did not feel comfortable to speak our mind and that made him unhappy. I asked him if he was unhappy the whole 2 years (of course I already knew the answer) and he said yes. He was not happy. He said he was happy at the begining. At that time he thought of getting married and having a family. Believed we could have a working R, but does not believe that any more. Said he just wanted to move on.

We talked about relationships and he did agree they take work, but he believes (as I already knew) that they should not take a lot of work, if we were meant to be it would not take work. He said something that he does understand it will take some work, but we took too much work and it was not an enjoyable process (hence we are not meant to be)....He said he did not want to do the work. Was not interested at all. (I guess I always knew that. Even if I am willing to change and grow and work on this....he is not, he never was)

He said he was not thinking of ever getting married. That he really was not interested in being with someoen like that, have a family. That requires looking after another person, and he realized he was not up for that. Said he was not up to "stearing a ship"...stearing "a team "us" ", said he was just not up to that task. Said the R was just too much for him.....that he said he likes what he is doing now. He likes being alone, that he does not believe he is really up to being with someone.....It all left me feeling sad for him.....

He said that it did not really make sense to him to think long term....make any plans.....and that he was comfortable with that. He did say he was planning to stay here in Canada for now. I asked him if he thought of moving back to CA and he said the only way I will go back there (home) is if I am in a body bag! (I was a bit taken aback).....He said he does not want to be near his family, does not want to be near his old friends....he'd rather make new friends....(I have a feeling...old friends and family ask questions....new friends ask less) anyway, I know this is geting long, but it helps to write it all out. He did say he had no need to be with someone...

He did say something about his trip to CA in the summer. Said it was not a good trip, that his father is not in agreement with what he is doing. Basically his father does feel that he quit everything, school and marrieage...that he is a quiter. I know his father has always liked me and when I spoke with them, they really hopes we would work this out....I got the feeling they pressured him when he was there and he was frastrated with them, that they did not see it his way.....and I am sure that contributed to the email I got from him when he was with them.

Anyway, we talked about the R and then would get into something else and then back to the R and so back and forth for over an hour. It really was a good conversation and to me it was a sign that we can talk and have good conversation...but I will no longer wait for him to see it....I just don't believe he will anytime soon if ever (he has quite strong opnions on some matters) and I will not wait for him for years.

I did tell him that I was having a hard time as I was still in love with him....but I said I do see a way to move on and I am hopeful for the future and we both agreed that time would heal that. I felt like I was talking to an old friend.....it was nice.....I have not felt that comfortable with him in years.

We did talk about staying friends. I was honest with him. I told him I did not know if that was something I could do. I did say it would be nice and he hoped we could remain friends and talk and hang out. He said it was fine if I wanted to talk to him and that although he was not going to think about what he could have done or not, if I needed to talk about my own side he was there for me. I said I needed that.

Oh, there was something interesting he said. When I said, something about if we had the tools that we could have worked it out.....he said, no, because if it could be worked out, then it would have been worked out, and since it was not worked out, it could not have been. I did not agree with him at all. It really came off as a complete riddle to me! and in my opinion it is completely flaud. I did not say that to him! But it is like saying...if you could have studied for the exam, then you would have gotten a better grade, but since you did not get a better grade, you could not have studied......Makes no sense.....I think he needs to work that issue out!

Anyway, I have said more than enough here.....I wonder if anyone will bother to read all this........got kind of carried away, but it is after midnight and I just wanted to get all this out before I go to sleep. I leave for my trip tomorrow at 7am so I will not have time to check back in for a day.......

thanks for any comments.....

I don't know if there is hope or not, but I am glad to know what he is thinking.....it is way better then the unknown.

Oh, lastly, I did ask for the ring....he said he did not have it, that he never took it from the basement. So, where did it go? I have to go look downthere again because I might have missed it, it is all in a pile!

Good night all you and thank you for being here for me.

Daisy