I would like you to get some sort of plan. You are in danger of losing your love for him.

thank you believer....

The trouble is that I have been hurting here for 8 months. I don't want to live like this anymore and I cannot chase after him either.

My WH does not want me in his life. I want to be with someone who is interested in being with me. Or, I want to be alone enjoying my life. I want to heal. Am I giving up on my M? He already did that.

I am hurting right now.

I know I still love him. The thing is right now, I am not convinced that loosing all love for him would be such a terrible way to go (I want to stop the hurt).

I think the 180 is the only way I can moove on. But I want to do it so that I can move on. Whether he stops to notice, is not my primary concern anymore. Is this bad?

I would love to have him back in my life. I just want him to realize on his own that he wants me in his life.

I am determined to enjoy life.

Daisy

Daisy..I'm sorry that you have to deal with this...i know the pain of having the person you love hurt you is almost more than a person can bear

((((daisy))))

eav....

Thank you. I know you are dealing with this so long yourself.

I guess, I wish it all was out already. If he had just left that day in May and said he never wanted to see me again, maybe it would have been easier. To get this info 8 months later, it just sucks. But at the same time it is better to know what exactly is going on.

I just don't think I can take more of this. I need a break.

Thanks for the hug!

Daisy

deleted.

I think I might have a plan. I am still not sure, but I wanted to run it by you guys. Believer said I need a plan. I agree.

I was thinking I will give WH couple of weeks to come clean or show me any sign that he is persuing me (as per the 180 ~ which I will do, and really have been doing in some sense for 3 weeks).

If I get no such sign (and I doubt he will come clean), I am thinking of giving him a letter, telling him I know what he is doing.

It would basically say something like this:

H,
I know about your A. I hoped you would come and tell me, but I don't get the impression you plan to. I will not live with your secret any longer. If you want to talk about this let me know. If you want to deny it, don't bother contacting me.

Daisy.

**********************************************************

What do you guys think?

I know you probably want to know what is the purpose in writing it.

I want him to know that I know. And then I want to see what happens.

Does this make any sense to anyone else?

Is there any chance that I might have misunderstood that email when he talks about his "affair"?

BTW, there is a part of me that wants to give him the letter on the 14th of Feb. Is that just too mean?

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

bump....

Hi Daisy-
Hope you are having a good day.
I can understand how difficult it was to be around and do
things with WH now that you know about the A. It really
made/makes me sick too, to see how "phoney" and dishonest
the WS become when they are having an A.

I can also understand wanting and needing to let your WH
know that you know. In my case, it was always very hard for
me to know something without saying anything, but I was glad
it gave me some time to prepare and think of how I wanted
to proceed. The hard part is not giving away "how" you know,
since that might cause anger from WH or cause him to shut
down that source, leaving you without a way to "snoop"
further.

Would your purpose of confronting be to ask WH to end the A
and work on the M, or do you just want know why he is having
the A and hiding it ?

If you want to try to save and restore your marriage, I'd
think the normal suggestion to begin with would be a "Plan A", but in your case where you're already living apart, I don't know that there would be too much you could do. (or if you would do this without letting on that you know).

If you want to try to save and restore the marriage, I'd
think you might go to a "Plan B", after a confrontation
letting him know that "you know", asking him to end the
A, and indicating your willingness to work on the M after
the A is ended. This kind of confrontation is brought up in "Love Must Be Tough" as well, as a sort of a forced
"ultimatum".

I'm really not an expert on how to proceed, so other may
have some good thoughts, and you may want to consult the
Harleys also while you are in the good position of knowing
and him not knowing that you do ~

I know from all our discussion, and that of Milkshake as
well, that our WH's are in a somewhat unique position of
having depression and /or other emotional issues as a factor
which complicates things- and doesn't exactly fit the MB
"mold". I haven't been able to completely follow the MB principles in my case, but have still found it very helpful
for my understanding of his thinking, etc.

Slammed

Slammed....thanks for you reply <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!


Why keep the A a secret? (deleted) After all, if it is all no big deal why not be open about it. And if it is not an A, then it really makes no sense. Why is it, I know nothing, and his best friend here knows nothing? Why, if it is all so normal <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />? This is a person that never as long as I have known him, has had any problems telling me or anyone, how he felt even if it was contradictory to whatever we believed. He always prides himself on being so open and honest and telling it how it is!



Because I love him still, there is a part of me that wants more than anything, to rationalize away the email <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Find some other plausable explanation. But, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is very unlikely that it is not a duck <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.


My emotions are not as up and down as they were in the summer, but I cannot seem to decide what to do either.

I keep thinking:
1. I love H and I would like to have a life with him.
2. I don't want to save this M by myself
3. I don't want to keep holding on
4. If he wanted this M I would consider it, but I am not sure I want it
5. I am basically not sure if I want him back
6. I am not willing to pretend that I don't know what is up
7. I forgive him and I want him to know that
8. I wish he would just talk to me, and tell me what is going on. Tell me if it is just sex, or if it is love, or whatever, complicated.
9. I am beginning to realize that it is very unlikely that this M would ever work.
10. I have a feeling that he really does not want a partner for life, a sex partner ~ yes, but not a marriage partner.
11. I find it really childish that he cannot just tell me. Why play this game?



Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Daisy,
Sorry to hear that you had such a difficult weekend.
About what you said I don't know what the pro's around here think, but to me if you don't know for SURE whether you want him back or not, it would be difficult to come up with a plan. Since most of the plans are focused on trying to get back together I thought...

stu.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I think believer hit it on the head when she said I am loosing my love for him. I think all this stuff is just accumulating.

I am just not sure what to feel, think, do anymore <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. I feel stronger than I have in months, yet I am at a loss as to what to do.

I will just wait this out (is that a bad plan?). I think somewhere in the back of my mind I am doing a 180. It is the only thing that I feel right about doing. I know that I may look like I am giving up to some people here, but I cannot go back to Plan A (and Plan B is not adviced to M without kids). I did Plan A already. I really tried. All I got in return was "we are friends", we are both responsible for the demise of our M, etc. Besides, when we were together on Sat. I was not mean, I was still friendly, just a bit more aloof then in the past.

Fact is that inside, I am just a bit discusted with him right now. I could not even take a sip from the drink he had at the movies. The way he is acting is disturbing to me. I am seriously creaped out by him. He is so dam sweet, it is sickening. I really have the urge to tell him to stop it and act normal. I use to think when he was acting like that, that he was loving, that he was like that with me because he loved me, what can I think now? My whole perception of him is skewed.

Thanks for your post stu......

How is it going with you? Still no word from you W? I am sorry for the situation you are in.....

Daisy

"Losing love" at this point it would kinda be a good thing for me (I think). It would make it easier to move on, I suppose. But I don't have such control over my thoughts yet. And it is not happening naturally. I think knowing about your WH's A made that transition quite natural for you... I suppose it is probably quite common. I guess that's why the Harley's came up with the whole plan A+B thing.

I'm not sure how the following thought relates to your post but in my mind it did... I don't know if it will make any sense to you if you haven't read the 7 habits...

Someone mentioned on another thread about the 7 habits of highly effective ppl. I've been listening to that audiobook and the 8th habit as well... Dr. Covey states that effective people don't allow themselves to become victimized from factors external to ourselves, eg our genetics, our upbringing, other people. That is considered "dependent" ie, blaming external factors for our unhappiness or lack of empowerment. I've been thinking about that a lot and how ppl in situation like us can live and deal with our situation more effectively.

You know what I came up with so far... Not Much, yet.

Right now I believe we can only do what you said, put the situation aside, try to live our lives and take every other situation in our lives (other than the R sitch) and try to progress in those situations to try to achieve interdependence.

In a month, I may have a different thought about it...

Anyways, I haven't heard from my W yet, don't know when I will, should be soon, end of Jan is here...She s'posed to sign some tax forms for me.

stu....
Your posts is quite interesting....

Well, I went to a concert yesterday and I asked a friend to come along. He happens to be H's roomate and from the same country as me. I had a nice time talking to him, but I could tell he is intersted in me. At a different point in my life I would have been happy to go out with him and all, but right now, I can not do it. I could not even imagine kissing the man. I just wanted to go home, and the goodbey was akward for me. I looked at him and all I could think about was not being with my H. I asked myself could I sleep with this guy, and I knew the answer was no. I want my H. And the fact is that H is sleeping with someone else. So he either has convinced himself that it is just sex and not a big deal (which it does kind of sound like from the email) or that he really does not care about me anymore and is lookign for new opportunities (which is true probably as well). It is the idea of it. The idea that he can be intimate with someone, while I obviously can not. And in this way, he has a hold on me, that I don't have on him. And in this way I am still dependent on him.

But acknowledging the pain is hard. I don't want to live like this. It is a continous stragle between loving him and being happy. Loving him right now is quite painful, and is definately not making me happy. How can I be happy loving someone who so obviously is done with me? I think he is trying to be nice to me and frankly I just want him to stop it.

I thought about how long I can go without telling him I know about the A. I realized yesterday that I cannot go too long, because I find the pretending eating away at my love for him and the last thing I want is for me to hate him, and for me to be angry and bitter. For my own self-preservation I will need to let him know soon. I want to still speak to my friend before I do, but she is in India and not coming back till Feb 2nd. Her H had an A within the first 6 months of their M, and she has quite a perspective on this, and it helps to talk out loud to someone about this.

Well, I don't know what to add about your W. I don't want to give you false hope nor do I want to be negative. It seems to me that it is really difficult to say which M can recover and which cannot. People think that because my H still speaks to me and wants to hang out with me, that we have a better chance that other M, but I really don't see it.

(deleted)

Ok, this got a bit long and I don't even know if I addressed all you said. I just woke up and I got to get to work soon here.

Take care.....

Daisy

Daisy,

You sound like you are going through "I love him, but I am disguised by him at the same time, and how can I ever love him the way I did before?" stage.

As you mentioned, you have already done a good Plan A. If you think you might be loosing your love for WH, you cannot continue doing this. I am not sure about Plan B, for this you may want to hear more from experienced ones on this board, but you do not want to get hurt anymore. If your WH cannot make up his mind, something has to change, right? He cannot truly believe that he can keep you while he is out there having fun with another women!

I know you are going through a tough time right now, but like you said, finding out the truth in a way might have made you stronger emotionally, because now you may feel less guilty and you know what was really going on.

Hugs,
Milk

Hi Daisy,

I went over your WH email again, and I see that he is acknowledging that sex has made things complicated in the A. The more he practices sex in the A, he doesn't think it should get complicated, but it does anyway.

I think this is something that he is examining in himself and his marriage, A's just make everything complicated (especially sex) and they do. This may be why he comes to you for sex. He thinks he is doing right if he comes to you, his W for sex.

Who know's..."maybe" he has tried to break away from the sex part of the A with OW. It's too complicated.

Daisy if you do not feel comfortable talking to you H about this alone, it may be good to confront him with it with an IC, MC, clergy/pastor. This may help to lessen WH's will to manipulate or twist it, when confronted. You need to feel as safe as possible when you do this.

{{{{Daisy}}}}


Blessings,
Lady

How did you know? That is exactly it. In some strange way I forgive him for the A. I am more discusted by his sweet demeaner towards me. He smiles in my face while he is stabing me in the back. That is what is really creepy and I wish he would stop doing it.


You are right, I cannot continue along this way. I am worried if things continue like this, I will end up hating him and I don't want that. I have never hated anyone, and I don't want to hate someone I loved so much and still love.


I guess I am not really sold on Plan B right now. I need to discuss the A. I just need to do it right. I don't want him to know how I found out.


Milk, I don't think he is thinking like this at all. For him, he ended it with me. I do wonder how he would feel if I was seeing someone. I don't think he even considers it, because he really sees me as a person that is so in love with him and just not capable of it right now. Dam him for being right!

I bet he would tell me that we are through and that it is not an A. But, the trouble with that is that I know that he is the one that called it an A. So, I honestly believe that somewhere deep very deep down he knows that it is not right. That is why I think he is trying to be so nice to me.

I tell you, I am in creepville!

Thanks for your thoughts Milk.......

When did all this get so complicated? I married the first person I truly loved, my first BF. It was all so special. You know we took our time before we were intimate, we took close to 2 months before we even kissed, and we were together every day and talked long into the night.

And now, he has this fling and I cannot help but feel that I am somehow responsible. That our relationship was so awful that now he does not even what a serious relationship (he said that ~ and I felt so sad for him). That I have done this to him where all he wants is a sexual relationship and not that bond with the right person. Why am I doing this to myself? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

thank you for the hug ladysheep. You know the last hug I had was when H (out of all people) hugged me when I picked him up at the airport 3 weeks ago.


I think you are right. He called it an A, not me. So, he knows what he is engaged in is an A and it is more complicated then he thought it would be. But, it must be the sex that keeps him in it.

You know this reminds me of what I read here somewhere.....that people sooner change their believe than their behavior. I think H is a perfect example. Justify, justify so as to not change behaviour. How long can he keep it up? I think his statement that it would be better to stay friends with this person is an indication that the justifying is not working......


You are right. He is thinking it through.


He is not coming to me for sex. I think it got to be too complicated for him and he opted to get me out of the equation then to get OW out of it. I mean he wanted to have sex, he would ask me, and then he just stopped in Oct. I think it had something to do with the fact that the last time he was kind of hinting at the fact that I could not stay the night and I said "you are not going to get rid of me right after, right?" and he was just trying to cover. He must have realized that I still wanted more than just sex with him and that was complicated so he opted to go with OW where it could be just sex, and now it is not working out like he planned. So, now he is thinking it through.

He is telling me we are over. We are just friends. He does stress is like he wants to believe it. So, again I ask, why call it an A if we are just friends in his mind?



I hope for his sake you are right. This cannot be something that you want to live with, even if we end it. Because to live with himself, he will either have to acknowledge the wrongness of it or justify it. And justifying it will not be satisfying.


I remember in the summer when I asked him if he was seeing someone he said no, that it would complicate things. I wish he had listened to his own advice. Because even if we are over, he has to live with himself for what he did and he knows what he did was not right.

His being nice to me is just a way to feel less quilt. At least that is my interpretation.

When I do talk to him, it will be in a public place. Not in my home or his home. I don't want him to get all angry and I don't want him to yell at me.

Daisy

So you don't want to do Plan A?

I think it would be the first step towards recovering your M if you choose to do that.

mimi....

Would not a 180 work better for me?

Daisy

I will just say that Steve Harley definitely DOES NOT recommend the 180 Approach. He specifically stated that to me.

I would definitely recommend Plan A if you are up to it.

I think since you are already distanced that your WH might use the 180 approach to justify continuation of the A to himself...