The weekend is finally over. I still cannot enjoy the weekends. Too much time on my hands. I try to do work, and did work most of today, but it is so hard to focus.

I am feeling really anxious the last few days. This is just no way to live.

I am going through the down part of this rollercoaster again. I am so tired of it. There just has to be a way to live without all this up and down.


I'll see H tomorrow night. Several of us are getting together for a movie and dinner. Part of me wants to cancle, because this is all just a sham. I don't feel like hanging out pretending I am so happy to be single again and hang out with the man that once was my H (in the true sense of the word). But then I really cannot stand the idea that he will think I am a chicken to face people and that he might think I am miserable.


My friend is finally coming back from India. I should be able to talk to her tomorrow. I cannot wait. I need to talk out loud to someone about this A. I have kept it to myself for 10 days (I know, not that long).....it just feels like a long time.

Daisy

This weekend was prity bad. I actually got some work done, but nevertheless felt prity down. Everything I do is for me. Nothing is done for someone else to enjoy. It is all kind of depressing. I use to enjoy cooking for H so much. I would try out all these different receipes and get really into it, cause he just loves to eat. Now, I cook for myself and I just cannot get into it. I had a nice dinner, but the joy I use to get out of making it was not there anymore. How can I get it back? I cook cause I have to eat something. Not because I enjoy making it.


Because of eav.....I signed up for salsa dance classes. I hope it is going to be fun. It is an 8 weeks course, meets once a week for an hour. I always wanted to dance more. About a year ago we went out and I kept asking H to dance with me and he did not want to.....and then at the end of the night he asked me to dance this slow dance, but by then I was not in the mood anymore. I wish I could go back. I would have danced with him. Dam. We only danced once at our wedding, that is it.

DAisy

daisy,

i undestand how you feel, i had a great time this weekend but i would have enjoyed it somuch more if i could have shared it with my H....darn it...i wish that i had been able to do so many things with him that i missed out on

i wish i had another chance

it is so sad doing things just for yourself when the person you want beside you isn't there

Eav.....

I think my issues where slightly different then yours. I usually enjoyed H's company. I had the bigger problem of finding things that I would want to do, then asking him to do it with me, and then NOT doing it if he did not want to. He basically felt that he had no freedom, that we had to do everything together. I wanted to do so many things, and I guess I ended up making him feel guilty cause he did not want to do them with me. He could not understand why I just did not go and enjoy myself anyway. Why we could not do things seperately sometimes.

He felt under too much pressure, as he felt that my life revolved around him.

I think it comes down to having a balance. Spending the right amount of time with each other and apart. If you spend too much time together, one partner can begin to feel traped (my H's case). If you don't spend enough time together then one parter feels neglected (your H's case). You got to find the right balance. Because if you don't then in the first case, my case, my H tried to distance himself from me and I just kept after him and he felt even more traped. And in your case, your H tried to persue you, try to be with you cause you were not spending enough time with each other, and the more he tried the more he felt rejected.

So, balance is the answer, I think.

And, that is a fine line. So, if you do get a chance for recovery eav, you got to make sure you don't go to the other extream......

Daisy.

i hope i get a chance to work on it daisy

your H should have appreciated what he had!

Yes, it's too late to do anything about the past...

However, you can make changes in the PRESENT...

Don't believe that it's TOO LATE to change...

You can change..whether you are with your H or not..He can change..Your marriage can change...

mimi....

thanks! Mimi, can I do a plan A without telling him specifically that "I want the work on the M". In other words can I try to meet his EN without making it clear to him that I still want the M? I get the feeling that he sees me as "hanging on" and being weak, and a strong woman.

I saw something that you wrote on eav's thread that I was able to relate to.....

It is when you spoke about respect. I think my H lost respect for me on many levels. It is hard to have respect for someone who cries all the time and cannot seem to live without the other person.

Daisy

I went to see New World with WH and our friends yesterday. I picked up WH and we met up with our friends for dinner. On the drive over, we had a nice conversation about his classes, what they are covering. It was interesting.

At first our friend (he is H's really good friend, I got to know him via H) asked my H if he wanted a ride with them, so that they could chat. H told him he was fine, that they could talk later.

We had a nice time at dinner, and I basically find that I can be around him and be in a good mood. I did not feel I had to pretend to be pleasant and that was nice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Every now and than it hits me just how strange the situation is, because to the ouside world we must have looked just like 2 couples out for an evening <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Of course there is no physical contact, but we just look so comfortable with each other <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

After the movie our friend offered H a ride, but H said he would just go with me, since it was on my way. It was more out of my way, and more along the way for our friends, who was a bit surprised by H comment. I said I would take him if he liked, but then my friend offered again, so I did say that it really was a bit out of the way for me and perhaps he should take a ride with our friend. I offered, but I was not comfortable to "fight" over him with our friend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. It did strike me that H really did want a ride with me, cause he did not jump on his friends offer. But anyway.


The movie, left me feeling really good. I think it is a good love story for a BW to see (one that is not in recovery!). I left the movie feeling hopeful for my future without my H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.


I send him an email this morning telling him he could pick up his mail from me, that I brought it to work with me. I included a nice picture of an owl with the email (he had some owl dream and was talking about getting a tattoo ~ and I found this really nice scupture of an owl).

He did respond to the email....told me more about owls, said he really liked the picture I send. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Then he came by my office to get some mail. When he was at my house over the break he wrote a number of poems and then tried to print them out. When the printer was not working right away (he does not know how it works) he just pressed to print several times, so that when I got home to use it, it printed like 6 copies (he had 12 pages). I thought it was funny and I gave them to him today. I read the poems way back when I got home after christmas, and I really liked them. Turns out he gave them to his mom to read and did not hear anything about it from her. Apparently, the stack of papers just got shifted around the house from one remote place to another till they dissapeared completely <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />. Well, I told him they are beautiful (before I heard about what is mom thought) (I am not one to use such words; he was quite taken back, and thanked me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). I really like them, I have read some of them before and liked them then. He asked me to tell him more about what I liked, I was telling him a lot but I said I would have to reread them and get back to him about which the specific once. He was happy I liked them, but for the first time in months he looked a little uncomfortable being around me (It was not the same "uncomfortable" like when I was crying and he did not want to be around me. It was different).

He is a funny guy.

Well in our conversation today I was talking about something, and in the story I had to say something about us being seperated. It was the first time I have used that word infront of him without crying. I feel stronger! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

He left my office and then came back to use the phone. I stepped out and spoke with someone in the hallway. We said good buy (quickly) and I went back to talking to this friend of mine. I think the more confident I look the better....but who knows.

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Do you see yourself as doing Plan A?

It seems to me that your WH is reaching out to you and wanting more and you are rejecting him. Of course, I may be reading this wrong.

For example:



Why did you feel uncomfortable about this?

He is your H, although wayward. It's normal and expected to FIGHT over him.

It seems like you are buying his POV of you not being married.

I'm sorry, Daisy. It's hard for ME to understand what you are doing.

Mimi, I don't know if he is reaching out or not. It really is not that clear to me.

My friend was prity insitant that he would take H. Yes, I am his WIFE and if I say, I'll take him, I should fight till I do. I actually did that when H was coming back from CA and I was picking him up from the airport. This same friend said he would pick him up but I said I would do it. He kept insisting, but I basically put my foot down.

Last night, I did not do that, and maybe I did not explain it well. But, fact is that it was 10pm. I still had to go home and do work, H new this. I would have droped him but frankly it did make sense for my friend to take him. There live very near each other and I live in the opposite direction. My decision was based on the fact that it would have taken about 25 minutes out of my way. Now, you can argue that is not a lot, but I had work that I had to get done and I had no idea how long it would take me. So, I did not want to fight over my H at a time when it really made sense to me to get going home. I did explain it to H that I had to get home and do work and he was understanding. I don't think I was rejecting him, because I said it nicely to him (about going with my friend) and then I explained that I had work, and he respects that I take it seriously.


I guess I am doing a modified Plan A. By that I mean that i will do everying but tell him I LOVE HIM, or tell HIM that I WANT THE M, while he is openly rejecting me. I will do all I can to meet his EN, that I can meet and I am working on myself. So he can see the changes if he chooses to see them.

I send him an email in the morning with a really nice picture of an owl, and I said when I found the owl, it reminded me of the dream he told me about.

His responds:

Daisy

Thanks Daisy. I've decided that I really like owls. I want to look at more owl images. Maybe I can find a book at school about owls. They are such interesting creatures. I will give you a call in your office before I stop by.

H.

Then we spoke in my office and I told him I found his poetry beautiful. I spoke more about it and told him I would read it again and get to him with more of my thoughts on it. I really let him know that I liked it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Is this such a bad plan A? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Do I have to voice it to him that I want him back in my life?

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
BTW, what does POV mean (my brain is fried)....

Daisy:

You seem to be going about this YOUR WAY. I can understand you wanting to do this. I believe in free choice. However, YOUR WAY does not seem logical TO ME.

The disclaimer is, if you have been following my forum posts, I am a strong advocate of the MB Approach and following it as strictly as possible. Why? I think that was the reason for my reconciliation with my H and we are happier than ever. That being said, I don't understand this that you say:



First of all, there is no such thing in the MB literature called modified Plan A. It's PLAN A, then PLAN B...A PACKAGE...

WHY NOT TELL YOUR H THAT YOU LOVE HIM AND THAT YOU WANT YOUR MARRIAGE? This is EXACTLY what Steve Harley told me to tell my H from the beginning to the end of this process. This is what my H needed to believe and remember in his dark hours of PLAN B. However, I HONESTLY felt that way. Do you? Do you want your marriage and your H? Then it perfectly normal, expected and OK to FIGHT FOR HIM....

There's folks on here that would love to have your opportunity, Daisy. You have CONTACT with your H and have opportunity to do a SUPER PLAN A!!! Your WH seems to be almost asking for this. I would grab onto him, if I were you, before he gets TOTALLY LOST....

I'm talking about OPENNESS AND HONESTY, a real essential marital ingredient....

Why does this bother you? I don't understand....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

mimi....thank you for your respond. I really appreciate it. It sounds like you may be frustrated with me, and see me as a lost cause, so I really appreciate your thoughts.

I am out here thinking about what you said.....how to respond to you post.....I need to think this through...what am I doing....what do I do.....what am I afraid of....so I'll respond more later........

Daisy

Daisy:

I'll share a secret with you...

If I saw you as a "lost cause", I wouldn't be posting to ya..

I know how hard this all is..

BEEN THERE DONE THAT....

I'm just trying to understand your thought process..

BTW, POV = Point of view...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have told him I love him all along, except in this last month. When I do, he distances himself from me. I feel that he looses respect for me when I let him know that I want him in my life. He wants me to move on. Moreover, I guess I am afraid of putting myself outthere continuously and being rejected every time.

I have a hard time being confident and sure of myself and at the same time telling him I want him in my life as my partner. He is uncomfortable around me when I he sees my weakness. From ark's post I understand that as a BS in Plan A, I am not to cry and be needy. I am not to expect anything, but when I get emotional saying that I want him in my life then I come of as expecting something and he is uncomfortable around me. If I cannot say that I want him in my life without crying, how is that a good Plan A?



Yes, I want my H and I want to share my life with him as long as God gives us (till death do us part). And yes I do want to fight for him.

I guess I am afraid of being rejected again. Mostly, I am afraid of being weak again.


I don't have that much contact with him when he sees me persuing him. The more I have been relaxed and easy going, not presuing him, the more he appears to be wanting to hang with me.


I wish I felt as you do, I am not so sure he is really reaching out to me or he is just happy I am ok now, and seems more able to take my company.


This is where you got me mimi! My problem in the R was that I was not open and honest about my feelings, and when I was, I was too emotional about them, and I had such a hard time to say the difficult things and H could tell and he wished it was different and moreover, I had such a hard time hearing him! Hearing what his issues where. So he felt he could not say what he wanted to say either. So, Openned and honest communication as much as we wanted it, was difficult.

So, if I go and talk to H and tell him that I want the M and I choke up and I have a difficult time saying it, he will see that it is just like before, that nothing has changed. Then if he tells me that he does not want the M, that he is moving on, if I cry, or look unhappy, it will be just like we always were and he will see nothing has changed. This is what I am worried about.

I am stuck! If I don't say that I want the him and the M, then I am not open and honest (which is what I want to be), but If I do tell him but I can't get it out of me without chocking up about it, then it will be just like before and he will see that nothing has changed. I wish I could say everything as easily as telling him I had a taco for lunch. I just don't know if I can do that.

He wants a confidant me. I don't know if I can deliver.


Does it make more sense now? I am really trying hard to explain to you what my issue is.......the post you send me to by ark is exactly what I want to do.....but I don't know if I can pull of that level of confidence and take what he says as bubble when I speak to him.

Also, I really don't know what to say exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing. I wish there was something specific to say in plan A, just like there is specific things you say in a plan B letter.

Finally, SH does not advice the Plan B for people without children. So, for me to would be a revised plan anyway, I would just Plan A till ........I don't even have the answer for that.

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

what!!! Steve harley does not advise plan B for people without children???

why the heck didn't anybody tell me this?

and why doesn't he advise it?

now i'm confused...then why am i'm going through this plan B stuff when all I wanted was to continue my plan A and hope for the best!!

i WAS advised that this would allow his affair to continue longer...because I would still be meeting some of his emotional needs ...and that if he can have his needs met by both of us he will not see the reality of his choices..what do childrenhave to do with that?

i hope someone explains this because i'm worried now!

I invited a couple of friend and H over for lunch on Sunday. I'll be making a big traditional Czech meal. I send H an email about it. I told him he could invite a friend as well.

He called me today about taxes. I was quite suprised. He asked if I have looked at it, I said no. He said he would need my information in order to file. We agreed to file together.

I told him about dinner (he sounded happy to hear it) and said he could make it. He had not read my email yet. I told him he could bring some friend from work. He said he did not know anyone well enough to envite them over. This surprised me. He has been working there for 8 months now, but I guess it is not easy to become friends.

He told me he read my paper. He had some nice things to say about it. We will meet sometime this week for me to get the comments.


I did tell him that I reread his poetry and that I got some thoughts on it. He wanted to hear what it was (was kind of excited) and I told him I am writing him an email, that I got it all worked out there and will send it to him soon....that I am still putting my thoughts together on it.

He did sound a down to me. I don't know if he still has trouble with sleeping or what. When I saw him yesterday in my office he again looked so tired.

He looks so thin these days, I doubt he is eating enough. I am a bit worried about him, because he does not do any exercise, so he really should not be loosign weight. He also looked really tired in the face, circles under his eyes. He usually looks tired (with the depression and all the drugs he takes for it) but now he looks worse.


When we spoke on Monday he said he had a paper due that day at 12pm, but worked on it till 2pm (so was late) and had apperantly spend the whole night up writing it. He had to critique an article and read it like 4 times, but he always writes at the last minute. I wish he would change on this, and actually so does he (he knows it is an issue, but cannot seem to change the patern) Last year he would do that too, but he never stayed up all night to do it. He had such a tough time finishing all his papers, and was really down and depressed and that is when he began to get even more depressed about us. Now, he sounds again like he may get depressed again about school.

I worry about him. But that is not something he wants to hear. He never liked when I was concerend. He would fall down the stairs and when I would come out of the kitchen to ask him if he was ok, he would brush me off real quick and be kind of mean. He did not like any fuss to be made about him, but how else was I to show my concern. Was I suppose to ignore that he fell down the stairs?


Daisy

Daisy,

Whoa hold on!!!! SH doesn't recomend plan B for people without children???
He has never told me that and I don't have children with WS. My children are grown and don't know WS as "Dad".
In fact since they lived out of state they didn't even meet him for over a year.

Besides SH told me I may need to plan B.

eav,
don't worry you have "kids".
with love,
VTY

Ok, hold on everyone....This is something that was said to someone in a particular situation....I am so sorry for generalizing!!!!

The way I understood it from the poster who was given this advice was that, in his case, he had very little contact with his W and so Plan B was seen as risky. I might have misunderstood. When I spoke with SH, he did not recomend Plan B to me. He felt that H was convinced that the two of us could not work out. At that time there also was no A, so Plan B (with the idea of the OP meeting all his needs) would not exactly work on that premise either. Finally, we have no kids, and at the time I spoke to SH, H and I did not really have much contact and it was important to SH to get some contact and find a way to talk to H to have him see that we were a posibitlity. So, Plan B was not discussed.

I think without having children and knowing of an A, plan B is risky. And that might be why it was not recomended to that poster.

Daisy

Daisy you said;



Again, I'm confused. He loses respect for you because you let him know that you want him in your life????? So he RESPECTS you IF YOU DO NOT WANT HIM??? Simply put, a MAN IS ATTRACTED TO A WOMAN WHO DOESN'T WANT HIM??? I don't think so. IMO, he will RESPECT you if you STAND UP, SPEAK UP TO HIM AND SAY: "I do, say, feel what I CHOOSE to do, say and feel and that is..I love you and want to work on our marriage. I don't want to be your friend. I am your wife." I think saying and communicating this and standing firm about it will gain his RESPECT..NOT doing as HE CHOOSES and ACCEPTING ONLY HIS FRIENDSHIP!!!



WHY? That is one of the most confident statements that you can make. You seem to feel that affirmatively and assertively expressing your love for your husband is indicative of a lack of confidence. I don't understand this way of thinking.

It might be helpful for you to read LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. Dobson provided the best understanding of this concept for me. I quoted Dobson almost directly to my H...Assertively, telling him that I LOVED AND WANTED HIM but was UNWILLING to share him, etc.



I agree with this!! You are continuing to evidence weakness, IMO, by not speaking up about your true feelings for him and your unhappiness regarding his A and current lifestyle. Maybe he wants you to do this..A MAN WANTS HIS WOMAN TO DESIRE AND WANT HIM!!!!



You are right. As a rule, neediness and desperation are not OK. However, one, two or even three emotional conversations professing your love for him are OK...This would indicate your sincerity.



One of my new mantras: FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAYS..Continuing to persevere in the face of fear will make you stronger!!!




Another reading suggestion..HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS...TRANSPARENCY between each other is ESSENTIAL. If this was a problem in your R, it is even more important for you to openly share your feelings with him. Plan A involves evidencing your capacity for change.



He very well may tell you this. However, your strength will be evidenced in your ability not to be moved by what HE SAYS or what HE WANTS. You are expressing YOUR WANTS AND NEEDS regardless of what HE DESIRES at this point. You may cry and look unhappy..that's OK..what we DON'T WANT is for you to BEG AND PLEAD....



THE KEY IS TO DO THIS FOR YOURSELF..NOT FOR HIM!!!! FIGHT FOR WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED!!!



There is no RIGHT THING to say..This is YOUR LIFE, YOUR MARRIAGE..Be sincere..say what YOU want to say..say what comes naturally for YOU..THAT IS BEST!!!!

Hang in there....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dear Daisy,

I posted to you earlier but it's gone!!!

It looks like you have had a lot of contacts with your WH lately - like Mimi said, not many people are given such opportunities, so you are lucky. At the same time, I understand what you are saying about "not appearing to be needy" by showing too much emotions to him. You want him to know that you love him, but you don't want him to think that you cannot function without him. I was recommended on this board not to say "I love you" when I felt that my husband did not want to hear it. One of the reasons was that STBX clearly knew of my feeling, and by me telling over and over how I feel, I was trying to convince him despite how he felt.

But it does not seem it really matter anymore in my case, as he has just moved on.