I guess I should have clarified. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />....H and I moved to Canada 3 years ago for my job (we both are US citizens). Because of my job we were able to apply for permanent residency last year around this time (I am on work visa right now, H on student). It took a lot of work, you will not believe all the run around I had to do to get the paperwork together. I even needed to get my birth certificate translated and authorized and when I asked H to help me find a lawyer that would do that (this is the only helped I asked ~ everything else I did), his reply was "why don't you call yourself" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. After that I did not ask him to do one thing. I found the lawyer and the translator and got all the other paperwork and got the money, and at every stage payed for it all (lots of medical exams ~ payed for all this and we were already seperated). One thing he had to do was the fingerprints (I could not exactly do that for him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) and it took him 4 months to get it. Fact is that without me (and my job ~ it is via my job that this process was started and expedited) he would not be able to have residency in Canada. He doesn't satisfy the requirement. We started this process when we were still together and that is the only reason that I have agreed to continue the process with him.

He did not marry me to get to canada .....We did not know we would be asking for residency at that time.......

I just hate the fact that he sees me as selfish when I am the one who has been decent and caring through out all this. I have the means to make his life difficult, but I have his best interest at heart. Having residency will make it cheaper for him to go to school here and he will be able to apply for student loans, and be able to look have a job outside of campus...etc..... Yet, I am the one that is punishing him. That is what gets to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />.... Doesn't he see that? Does he not see I have always done right by him? His lieing cheating self cannot say the same <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />!!!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It is a bad sign when one partner does all the work. That's how it was in my marriage. All it did was give my WH a sense of entitlement.

believer....

Yes, unfortunately this is where I went wrong about things.... When it came to taking care of business (taxes, buying the house, immigration, paying the bills, etc.) I did it all, because my H did not show any initiative to do these things, and when asked either told me to do it, or did not do it (while whining about it and resenting me for asking) in a timely manner (dam be the consequances) and I would just take over. I thought I would take care of it and I would be appreciated for my efforts, not taken for granted and expected to do it all in the future.

I have learned the hard way!

Daisy

Me too. My WH and I raised 8 kids together 2 mine, 4 his, and 2 step-kids. I'm an energetic, hard-working, efficient person. I think he realized that I would make up for his laziness.

I got into the habit of doing everything, plus working full time. He sat back and enjoyed himself.

When the kids were all raised, he took off with a woman 20 years younger that is a real partier.

But as I look back, I know that it was my fault. I asked too little of him, and he grew more and more to believe that he was entitled.

Daisy, I think that is what happens to WS - I did a lot of things thinking about OUR future, but STBXH just felt I did many things just for MYSELF. I am not sure if that is what they TRULY think, or they want to believe that so that they do not have to feel guilty...

Obviously, the way you cared about your H should have been pretty clear. To me, it might be that your H does not WANT to see it b/c otherwise he would feel guilty.

Hugs,
Milk

Believer,
I too worked full time while H at first did not work at all, then took 2 courses (just sat in them, did not actually take them for grade) and worked part time, and then did go to grad school full time. All this time I worked full time, even took up extra teaching over the summer to get have extra funds for the downpayment on our house, did most of the work around the house, and all the business stuff. I should have set he do it. And dam be the consequances and wait for the electicity or gas to get turned off. Maybe if he was not able to watch boxing would he do something about paying the bills!

But did I get any credit? No, I was not there for him. I admit I did pleanty wrong, but he did not appreciate the effort I put in, he only saw what I was not doing for him.....

Daisy

It's strange, but I thought I was being a good wife. I hardly noticed the imbalance. I did the cooking, cleaning, laundry, school stuff, dentist/doctor appointments, shopping, yard work, etc.

Toward the end, I started realizing that while I was happily rowing the boat, WH was kicked back enjoying the ride. When I asked him to pitch in a little, he ran off with OW.

And he picked a perfect OW. She was willing to abandon her 12 year old daughter to live with my husband and take care of his needs.

Okay, I understand Daisy. Is it possible that you could help him out of his entitlement attitude? Maybe mail his immigration papers to him, let him take care of the rest of his work concerning that? No... it's not punishment, it's helping him be the seperate person he wants to be in the marriage, and doing his own work.

Lady

Milk...


Sadly milk, H did see it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. He would once in a while appoligize for not helping me at all, but sadly did nothing what so ever to change. You see, he did not want to do anything. Me doing it, made him feel worse. He got to the point that he would feel quilty about not helping me even when I did not ask him or made any demands on him or even when I was more than happy to do it myself.

He was just unable to help me. Since I did it, and he was unable to, we were not compatible at all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Go figure.

He opted to not help me at all and then felt bad for not being there for me. Soon, he grew to be frustrated and resentful of me doing it all and in no time he was on "we are not compatable and we do not respect each other". All this does not exactly make the LOVE grow, so as he said "I will not sacrafice my happiness" and he got out of there.


It was not a balanced relationship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Me being a sucker helped to destroy the relationship. I thought I would not "stear the pot" ......I was afraid of "stearing the pot". I did not want to get into arguments, and I did keep my feelings to myself way too long. When I did finally raise them, I was unable to do so with a backbone. Yes, I am willing to admit I was the weak one in the R. I loved him so much, I did not want to loose him, I wanted to make his life as easy as possible, and yes, I was very dissapointed that he did not feel the same. I wanted to make him happy, but by that alone, I actually contributed to his unhappiness <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Oh, your husband sounds so much like mine.

Every Christmas mine used to let me do all of the Christmas stuff - and it wasn't easy with 8 kids to buy for. Usually he would get presents for friends, people at work, the local barmaid, and his relatives. Then he would run out of money to get me anything. Then, get this - I would have to cheer him up on Christmas because he "felt so bad" about not getting me anything.

Believer....

Where do you think we went wrong?

I want to learn from this experience and not become the sucker again. I am afraid my tendencies will again be to do what I can for the other person and get myself into this mess again.

Your H and mine could get together. My mom kept telling me, 'you got to tell him he needs to do some of these things as well, stop doing it all', but I did not listen. At first I did it because I was happy to do for him, and soon it just became my job, and I did not want to deal with his whining..... I guess this is where you cannot be afraid to POJA.....I'll remember that for next time.

Daisy

Well, people like us have to proceed carefully. It makes me feel really uncomfortable to keep a balance sheet on a relationship, but that is what I intend to do.

The other thing is to speak honestly to the person, early on. I let things go for years. By the time I talked to my WH about it, he was quite comfortable with the way things were going.

LADY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />....missed your post to me...sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Well, we are at the end of the process now. So very little is required of him now. I got the letter from immigr. and all we have to do now, is to send in our passports and photoes. I made a copy of the letter, added a note "I need these documents ASAP", and left it for H in an envelope in his mailbox. I did not explain what I need (that is in the letter ~ let him figure it out). I have to send everything in together in one envelope so I have to wait till he gives me the stuff.

I didn't add a thank you or Enjoy to the note like I always do. We are in no contact (just business). He better get on it, and get it to me ASAP. I have no intention of waiting 4 months like I did for the fingerprints <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> (I did have to remind him 2x to do something about it......).

I really don't care how he gets it to me, as long as I get it soon. If I don't hear from him by the end of next Friday (10 days is more than enough right?), I'll send him an email informing him that if I don't get it by Monday, I am sending it all off without his stuff and canceling his application. I am tired of his lazy a$$ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. Sorry, I am kind of angry and really hurt today. Does he even remember asking me to marry him 4 years ago <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />? Damit, how did it all go so wrong????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Just an update to my thead.

Saw HW last Monday. He came by my office to drop off the immigration papers. I was talking to someone, so he just quickly gave me the stuff and was out of here. We said a quick hey, thanks. He did not look angry or indiferent....but who knows.

That is the only contact we have had for the last 3 weeks. He is respecting my wishes for no contact apparently, as he said he would. I wish he had respected our vows this well.

I had a couple of rough days last week, but nothing too bad. I no longer cry as often or even that long (if I do cry). Just catches me here and there every now and then.

I am able to do more work then before. I have also been able to cook and enjoy it like before, do some baking (share it with friends) as well. I guess I am making progress in my life. Still, some days I feel that I should be furhter along by now. H has been gone close to 10 months, seems like my progress is slow.

I still spend way too much time on him. My mind going over the last email he send me and all the stuff we went through since he left and basically thinking about the whole marriage in general.

Sometimes I feel that I will never get over it. I know never is a strong word, but sometimes, it just is still hard to believe that this is my life.

What bothers me the most right now and what I am having a difficult time getting over is that he never even tried during the very short marriage to be a partner to me. He was a friend to me, that is no doubt, but he was not a M partner to me. He did not commit to the marriage.

This is what is hard to accept and get over. How could he never commit to it and does that reflect poorly on me. I get into the questioning myself phase "was I not worth it" etc. I know I was and am.

I still feel a lot of anger at H right now. His level of selfishness is what ticks me off the most. That he actually thinks he is the victime now, because I am not playing nice and being his friend.


A friend told me it is ok to be angry as long as I don't stay there too long. Well, I was angry back in Sept/Oct, so I kind of thought I was done with that, but with all the new info I seem to be angry again.


It is really sad to realize that I may not talk to him for a long time. I read something on Kim's thread that was really sad to me. Her H saying he does not even know her after 4 months of Plan B. This makes me realize that at some point we will be complete strangers to each other.....

Daisy

Hello Daisy-
Glad to catch up with you and hear that you are doing well.
You have sounded really strong and focused lately, and I
really admire that.

When reading some of your earlier thread postings, I see
much of the same traits as WH and I have had in our M.
I have been the efficient, organized person who worked,
took care of the laundry, housework, errands, shopping, wrote the checks to pay our bills, even did the taxes, and
took care of the dog. WH seemed to feel that working and
bringing in the higher income was enough for him to do.

I did always think part of that was the role models he
grew up with- very "traditional" where the woman did the
housework, laundry, cooking and shopping, and the man did
the "heavy" work, yard work and took care of the car.
In more recent years, his Mom has really started handling
everything because of his Dad's bad health, but his Dad
has always handled and totally controlled the finances.

To some degree, I almost think that while WH enjoyed having
everything done for him, he started to resent it. Makes
me wonder if he was attracted to me for those traits, but
then started to resent me too ? I guess I always took care
of them because he was always busy and I didn't mind to
do them- I too, felt like I was being a good wife.

Now it seems nothing I did made much difference. WH came
back home and we've been (I thought) making some progress
and even took a fun weekend trip together, but now he is
back to talking to OW and went skiing on the weekend with
her. He's very confused, "foggy", and miserable, and I'm
really frustrated, angry and hurt that he's turned back
around again. I'm tired of him being a coward and weak.
I'm tired of trying to figure it all out, and of not
knowing how much of it all is his mental/emotional health
issues and how much is just the typical WS "script" and
fog of the A.

Has your WH said anything at all about what he wants or
intends to do ? Any idea if his A is continuing ?
What do you want to do ?
Slammed

Slammed,
I wrote to you today.......I don't know if you saw it.


I have said "no contact" to WH. He was not happy about it, but is resepcting my wishes. So, no contact for the last 3 weeks. None.

So, what I am doing is accepting that my M is over. I hoped it could be recovered. I could no longer live in that hope while he was so perfectly happy to have me as his "friend", is going along in his A and cannot even fess up, appoligizees for letting things slip instead of for his actions, is perfectly happy making no changes in his life what so ever.

He has not been a friend to me.

He has been so selfish and selfabsorbed that I no longer could be a part of it. If I was, I would just end up hating him and I did not want that.

Daisy

Thanks, Daisy. Will look for your notes on my thread.

It's been a bad week, that's for sure. Just amazing how
things can change suddenly for the better and you can feel
so much hope, only to be dashed again.

I'm glad that your WH is respecting your wishes, and hope it
is making things easier for you. As much as I was happy that
my Wh moved home, I guess I am now kind of hoping he'll move
out to his renovated house if he's going to keep up the
contact with OW, because it's just too hard to have it "in
my face" all the time. At least when he's gone, I don't
have to hear the lies, the constant phone calls, etc.

You are right about the WH's not being friends.
At my Wh's counseling session last week, his counselor asked
me if I thought I'd still be "a friend", and help with his
medial/legal situation if he didn't want to be with me.
I wanted to say not only "NO", but H*** NO". Why should I
be his support, help, fall-back person and be good enough
to go through all the hard times, but not good enough to
be with for good times. I thought the same as you- he is
not being a friend to me, as you don't lie and cheat on a
friend !

Sometimes it is easier to just be removed from it all.
Slammed

daisy...

3 weeks with no contact?

wow!

EAv....

That is not really that long. Others here go longer. Well, honestly, we did see each other for about 5 seconds (I swear I don't even recall what he looked like) when he dropped of the immigration papers last Monday. So, except for those 5 seconds or so, NO other contact.

He said he would not contact me (for any personal reasons). I knew when I send that email to him that I did not wish to be in contact with him now, I knew that he would say that "he would respect my decision". I knew that. That is why I could not do it sooner, I was not ready to cut all contact. But I was ready now. It is sad, and I do get tears in my eyes.....

I know he will not contact me. It has nothing to do with respecting me (if he did he would not send me an email trying to make me feel quilty ~ it did not work!). It is simply to show himself to be the bigger person. But you see, I know how weak he is. That is a fact. He is so weak. He used me to get over me. I did not have that option. I could not show up at his bedroom in the middle of the night and be greeted with open arms. He saw me in pain, he knew what contact with him was doing to me, and he did not care.....still wanted to be friends. If he was a true friend he would have let me go!

When I told him that I had not given up on us, he said nothing, just smiled.....but now is hurt because I tell him upfront that I don't want to be friends!


The thought that I will not talk to him or see him for who knows, maybe years, is heartbreaking.......

I just could not play games anymore.

There is a difference between your WH and mine. We had a very short M and he never commited to it. He did not want to build a M, he assumed it either was going to be there or not, and if not, then he would leave, no big deal (he even said us breaking up was not a big deal ~ he said this about 4 weeks ago ~ nice to know that something that has crushed me and changed my life forever "was no big deal to him".....how can I be friends with this character?). You see, so unlike your WH, we did not have "a number of good years" to fall back on. I tried the best I could (with many failures) to build a M. I know that I tried, I know that he did not. He would appoligize all the time, said that he knows I tried to work on it but that it takes TWO and he could not do his part, always said that I was willing and it was good to come up with ideas on what to do (but guess what, never followed through...b/c if we belonged together then it would jsut happen and no work was required on his part).

You see, he felt quilty when I did work on the M because he did not want to work on it. He felt bad when I did anything around the house, because he did not want to do anything. He felt bad, he apologized, he promised to change, but then appoligized that he was not able to.

I made a big mistake here. I tolirated so much of this stuff and I bent over backworkds doing it all and trying to appease him and when he stopped wanting to have me near him and asked for space, I tried to bend over backwards to give it to him. But I was not succesful at doing this without some LB. I was hurt, and I would tell him that it did hurt me that he did not want to spend time with me, that he had no interest in my interests (like taking a walk together ~ but then gladly taking a walk alone), that he had no interest in building new intests, that he did not want me to engage in his intersts. So, you see, I tried to give him what he wanted, but in the process I was not getting anything I wanted (I was being ditched you know) and I was not happy about that so I let him know it. I tried to find some way for us to work on this, but that just made him feel worse as he did not want to work on it. HE went so far as to stop doing anythign that he enjoyed by himself, saying that I would not approve. It was not true, but I could not convince him otherwise. So, even when I would tell him to go on and go out with his friends like he wanted to, he would tell me no, because he just knew that I did not want him to go out and enjoy himself. So then he was miserable because he could not go out and enjoy himself and he set there and brooded over it all and saw it all as my fault. I tried to reach out to him, and he told me he needed his space, he had depression and that I was not understanding at all! That he needs space and he needs his time to stare in space and if he needs to do this for hours and hours then that is what he needs. And if he needs to do it for days after days then I need to accept that. He cannot reach oout to me because he is in a depression and my needs do not matter to him because nothing matters to him and he needs his space. HE continued to tell me all this all the while reaching for other women, hanging out and having a good time with others (me being completely oblivious to this at the time).

Now, he is happy with his life because there is no other person whose needs he may have to meet. You see, he did not mind having his needs met, but did not want to go out of his way, and sacrifice his happiness in meeting mine. He can have fun dating again, and has learned the hard way not to make any commitment (he told me he does not want any serious relationship or haven forbid: a Marriage!). Now, he is yet again in his comfort zone, responsible only to himself, but not even that, because if anything his parents will bail him out (as he expects them to ~ he actually said 4 weeks ago that he does not understand why they don't support him more financially that they can effort it). He has his freedom and space, he does not have me "making him feel quilty" for whatever reason. Now, he can have his deep conversations with anyone, since I was not able to do that every time we were together (yes, sadly I did want to talk about my day but that just was not of interest to him).

I except the way things were. My mistake, my biggest mistake was letting him get to me. I felt like nothing by the time he left. I did not feel that I was worth his love. My logic at the time was pretty scrood up. I really believed if I was worth it that he would work on the marriage. I know better now. He was not worth all the trouble for me.

My mistake was not standing up for myself. I let him get away with so much. He said some nasty and crule things to me, in the name of "honesty". Oh, yes, he waved his "flag of brutal honestly" around, just forgot it when it came to seeing other women and his A. Go figure. But, it was not his fault, the pain I felt, was my doing. I let him talk down to me all the time. He critisized my english, the way I spoke, the elevation of my voice, my sentence structure, the pronunciation of some words, the excitement in my voice....he went after it all and I let him, till I was at a point where I practiced my sentences in my head before I said them out loud so he would not find any fault with it. I was that pathetic, instead of telling his to stop it!

So, you see, I get now, that HE has many faults and I have many faults and I don't need a guy in my life who just looks at mine and never looks at his.


I am ok! I can walk around my house, run and dance, and sing, and chase my cats and I don't have to worry about disturbing his space and being ignored for hours.

Don't get me wrong, he could be very nice to me. And I lived for those moments. But, they were just as predictable as stock prices! One minute he was my best friend, the next he could not stand anything about me.

So, do I am ok without him. He would have to change a lot, just like I have to change. He is not willing, and sadly I am much stronger now and I see through a lot of his BS. My love goggles have come off.

He can be very nice.....I loved that man....

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi WD,

Thanks for sharing..... ditto to some of the things you have said and Believer and the others.... I have to admit to also having actually helped WS develop his sense of 'entitlement' to the point where having an A become an 'option' that he was entitled to.....given the 'not so perfect' marriage that we had..... never occurred to WS that we could actually work on it to make it better!

...so...at this point... the past is past.... let's just not make the same mistakes in the present and future, right?

quote:----------------------------------------------------
I did not feel that I was worth his love. My logic at the time was pretty scrood up. I really believed if I was worth it that he would work on the marriage. I know better now.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I am glad to hear you say this....because you are worth it.... your WS just can't see it.... his loss!

(((((((((((((((White Daisy)))))))))))))))))