Yesterday I got home and received in the mail a letter from Lawyer, instructed by WBF. WBF had mentioned last week that he had seen a lawyer, so I guess not too surprised to receive the letter.

The letter I have retyped below.

We have been instructed by WBF, in connection with your daughter Emma. You may be aware that our client has parental responsibility for Emma. Parental responsibility confers on him the rights, duties and responsibilities which by lay a parent has. Legislation which came into effect in 2003, states a father who was not married to the mother at the time of the child's birth has parental responsibility if his name is places on the birth certificate at registration. We understand this to be the case.

We are instructed that our client currently has limited supervised contact with Emma whom he sees at your home on Wednesday evenings and on Sundays between 10am and 6pm. During these times, we are instructed you insist on being present and do not allow our client to leae the house with Emma, without you. We have advised our client that there is no reason at all why he should not enjoy unsupervised contact with Emma. He therefore proposes that the time he and Emma spend together be increased.

Our client suggests that he takes Emma out on Sundays on an unsupervised basis and returns her at 6pm. He has agreed that his partner, will initially not be present on these occasions. On a Wednesday, the contact times would remain the same.

Our client tells us that it is your intention to move to New Zealand with Emma on a permanent basis. He accepts that this may be in Emma's best interests. If you choose to remove Emma to New Zealand without informing our client and without obtaining his consent, you will be committing a criminal offence. Please advise us as to what proposals you have for contact if you do move to New Zealand.

Our client understands and we hope you agree that Emma's welfare is at all times paramount. It is for this reason that we strongly recommend that you consider that process of mediation. This will assist in resolving any issues both or either of you may have arising from the breakdown of your relationship and more importantly will focus on Emma.

We await hearing from you or from a solicitor instructed by you within 14 days from today. We would suggest that you contact a solicitor who is a member of Resolution an organisation of lawyers, who specialise in family matters.

Well here are my thoughts:

Increase time with Emma - not increasing his time with Emma just making sure I am not involved

All day on Sunday - I think this is too long and have mentioned this to him in the past. I would be happier if it was from 9 to 1pm, and she was back home for a sleep. It is winter here, what is going to do with her for a whole day in London in the cold, I can see that he will go back to his flat that he shares with OW.

Agrees his partner will not be involved initially - how do I know this won't happen, we have had a verbal understanding that she will not have anything to do with Emma. What happens if OW does have contact with Emma, what can I do? Definition of 'initially' required I think

Moving to New Zealand - I will be returning to New Zealand, that is where I was born and want to live, London has only ever been a temporary place of abode and currently only to earn some money fast so DD can have a resonable std of living when we get back to New Zealand.

I need his permission to return to New Zealand - I have had this verbally on many occasions, this is annoying me that he is trying to control what I do. What happens if he wants to return to Australia (that is where he is from) does he have to get my permission?

Contact proposal when back in New Zealand - he can ring any time to speak to DD, and can visit, what more can I offer?

Mediation - I have asked WBF to go to mediation out of concern for DD and our relationship as parents. He has refused on 2 occasions in the past, and now it is suggested by his lawyer so it looks like he is doing everything reasonable to sort things out. This is bullsh*t!

My plans, my work contract finishes on 23 Dec and I have been thinking of returning to New Zealand then, I have let WBF know that this is a strong possibility, so I question why he is getting a lawyer involved when we are likely to only be in the country for another 4 weeks, I would be highly annoyed if he tries to delay my return to New Zealand. Now I know why he has been very nice to me the last couple of visits with DD, I was wondering what was up and even thought that maybe the A was starting to cool down - don't I feel stupid.

I am ringing my lawyer today to get an appointment, but my gut feeling is to get WBF permission to leave UK asap, and get the [censored] out of here and go into a very dark plan B forever!

Any comments suggestion about the letter would be greatly appreciated.

It w/b best if your solicator dealt with the communication. Me thinks his lawyer is under the impression, their client is NOT a WS?????

I would propose something like:

Dear Lawyers of WS,

You are aware your client has left his family to live with other women who are unknown to us. As a parent, the safety of our child is paramount. What safety precautions did your client propose? He has already compromised his living arrangements, refused to go to mediation and now you threaten me with legal jargon about breaking the law? Make sure you really know who you are representing.

As a mother, I would like to respect the father of my child but right now, he is not earning that respect. Instead he has created an unsafe environment. Your letter has not outlined what steps would be taken to secure safe vistation.
Your letter also has not acknowledged how the WS will make up for his lack of care giving all these months while he has moved his residence with other women.

What are your proposals for financial and medical support for our child? I do not see any notation of those items which are a normal part of child custody case. Are you only reacting to his statements and taking them at face value? Are you making your judgements and statements without checking the real situation?

My legal advisors have been informed of your correspondence.

Sincerely,
BS

Well, that's my quick and dirty letter. As you can see, I am fuming at the lawyers lack of research. Stupid lawyers.

Of course, it w/b best to run any correspondence by your legal advisors before you respond to his lawyers.

L.

Orchid

Thanks for your reply, some very valid points you make. Esp the medical support, when DD was in hospital with a possbile asthma attack he didn't even turn up to hospital, I guess that is not a fun thing to do. Financial support, no mention whatsoever is there! He does pay me a weekly amount now, and half of DD day care costs, but he hasn't even mentioned what he proposes going forward.

I don't even know where he lives, and he wants to take DD, he said he has no problem with me knowing where he lives, but didn't offer the information - yeah right!

I am not sure the fact that he had an A really means anything in the eyes of the law, he really didn't give a stuff about us and was happy for us to stay in New Zealand (we were there visiting my family) as long as we wanted when he started the A. He even offered to pack up all of my stuff and send it over to me in New Zealand when he told me he was unhappy with our relationship, never mentioning that he was in a A with OW. GRRRRRRRR I am fuming.

I agree my solicitor is the best person to deal with this, I am so sick of this, and am looking fwd to going to New Zealand and getting this crap out of my life.

NZGirl,

Being in England I would suggest you let your attorney completely handle this letter. Not even sure if the attorney or you are obligated to reply. I think a letter like the one Orchid suggests will not have any positive effect on the case (although I morally agree with the letter). From what I have read here there is a lot of difference between the laws and legal proceedings in Europe compared to the USA and unfortunately the issue of the OW being around your child or your former boyfriend having an affair does not in any way diminish his right by the law to be around your daughter.

The angle is that it is not as much your XBF right to be around your daughter as it is HER right to have a father.

In any case don’t worry too much about the deadline. 14 days means 7 days to reach you, 14 days wait, 7 days for reply to reach them and then 14 days to react with another letter. Starting the whole process again. As long as there are not definite threats about court with specific charges and dates then the letter is rather empty.

Before anyone hits me over the head on this then let me make it clear this is not my view – this is just the legal frame in Scandinavia, Brittan, Germany, France and Spain.

I also suggest you talk to your embassy and your attorney about leaving the country with your daughter. In that order. Your attorney is obliged to tell you exactly how to go by the law in England. Your embassy can tell you what will happen if you leave England with your daughter without your XBF permission. They can answer questions like whether (if he files) the case would be tried in NZ or England. What outcome can you expect in such a case? Will he be obligated to pay support? If he does not pay will the State pay?

FYI: In the vast majority of cases the courts of a country tend to be more compassionate to a citizen of that country in custody cases. So chances are you will get a better result in NZ than in England. Having said that English courts are rather impartial and are probably the exception that proves the rule.

Hi Bigger
thanks for your reply, I agree the morality of WBF and OW won't be taken into account at all.

I have checked out my legal standing about 2 months ago and my solicitor advised that the court presidence has be set by 2 significant cases (one involving and Walsh father and NZ Mother), the NZ mother went to NZ with DD and, the father objected, got the NZ courts to order mother and DD back to the UK and then the UK overturned the decision stating 'it is in the best interests of the child that the mother lives in a country of her choice and is not forced to live in a country against her will.' The emotional well being of the mother must also be paramount. My lawyer advised that he would be foolish to fight it, it would cost about £20,000 and he would loose anyway. So I am fairly confident that I will get to go to NZ but am concerned that WBF may delay when this can happen. I don't want to be stuck in the UK burning through my savings which I have worked hard to get, I have sacrificed a lot of things, in order that I save as much as I can. He left me in a position of having no money after I had 15 months off on maternity leave.

I have an appointment with my lawyer on Monday at 2pm. WBF is coming to see DD on Sunday, so I will pretend that nothing has happened, I am going to leave him guessing if the letter has turned up, I would normally deal with this upfront, but not this time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well NZ,

In that case I suggest the following: Don’t talk to your former boyfriend about when you are leaving – just like he didn’t ask your opinion on OW or about leaving your relationship. I take it he knows you plan on leaving some day.

If he knows you are leaving he can get a restraining order and what not. You will be stopped by immigration at Heathrow and possibly the NZ officials would be obligated to turn you back if you slipped by UK immigration. If you go the complete legal route in England you might be obligated to wait until the issue is resolved. Could take months.

So what you do is just simply quietly plan your departure, buy tickets in a manner your XBF can not trace and then just…. leave. Let HIM bring the battle to you. Chances are he won’t.

Try to make the whole flight with no overnite stop.

You could ask your attorney about this “hypothetically”: “I have a friend who is thinking of doing this….” sort of question.

Bigger, I have told WBF that I might be leaving around 23 Dec, but my plans are fluid. I am reluctant to just leave, I would rather have the legal side sorted, and want to put this all behind me. I guess if pushed, I might do it as a last resort <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I think I will use his line he used on me when he told me that he was unhappy, not that he was with OW, if he isn't happy about this - 'can't we just act like adults through this' This still makes me laugh when I think of WBF saying this to me and me not knowing what he had been up to, the audacity of him to say that to me!

So far today I have had 2 text messages from WBF and a phone call, all about insignificant things. Never get any comms from him. He inquired if I was ok, I said yes, just got a cold and my voice is going.

I think he is waiting for my big reaction to his lawyers letter. Not going to give him one, just keep him guessing...ahh the relief of having my sanity back is very comforting when dealing with this stuff.

Just curious. What were your plans about where to live if your BF hadn't gotten himself into an affair?

We were talking about living in Australia, although I had a slight hope that we may end up in NZ. I have a house there with no mortgage so financially it made more sense. He has no significant assets - that I know of

I'm wondering because the affair is very likely to end. You can almost count on it. When it does, if you are in NZ, your daughter will be deprived of her father.

Believer
I understand that 97% of affairs end, but right now this one is going along very strongly. I am in a country where I have no family, and very little support. I have advised WBF that he will be missing out on the best thing that ever happened to him, but his happiness is more important right now.

I do feel sorry for my DD that she won't have much contact with her father, but he has made this decision not me, I have been fighting strong and hard to save our relationship. I think that staying here will eventually be very detrimental to me and I don't think that is a good thing for my DD, I have been the only constant in her life.

also I wanted to say that WBF has already deprived DD of her father by having A and living with OW. And yes I feel bad about DD missing her father, it is a very sad consequence of A.

NZ Girl -

I am not blaming you at all for the fact that your daughter may lose her father. I was just trying to see what your plans were before. If you do go back to NZ, he may or may not wake up. But it sounds like it would give you some support and financial security.

I didn't think you were blaming me, but thought I had better explain why I am thinking of heading back to New Zealand. I originally stayed here to work on our relationship but WBF wasn't interested. I wanted to take things slowly, but he was more interested in OW, although he had a kind of second thought there for a short time. Now I am here to get some cash so DD and I have some sort of reasonable lifestyle when we return to NZ.

Yes I agree, us returning to NZ may or may not wake him up, right now nothing else has worked and I am not prepared to normalise what he is doing by allowing OW to have contact with DD and they play happy families. AS far as I am concern WBF has choosen OW to be part of his life, but that does not translate to DD. As you can tell I have very strong feelings about this. My plan (which changes a lot) was to try to stay here in London until early or the end of summer to ensure our financial security, but I think that my time is running out.

WBF home is Australia so I can see that if he doesn't wake up he will always be a distance father to DD!

You are still somewhat new in this. It usually takes time for the affair to die. But I guess you need to do what you need to do. I don't blame you for not wanting your daughter around OW.

Bigger sounds like he knows how to get your daughter to NZ, but I would hesitate to advise you to do something illegal.

Don't break the law ... doing that may cause any future court ruling to go against your wishes.

No I won't break the law I too can see that that wouldn't help me at all.

The affair is 8 months old, when does it start to die? I know this is like asking how long is a piece of string!

I really appreciate your advice and input, it has been expensive to ring my family back in NZ all the time. thanks again

Whoa! My suggestion is NOT breaking the law. It is taking the battle to NZ to have home-court advantage. Yes – you have to go through the legal battle. No – not necessarily in England. The courts of NZ are recognized by British courts and the laws are quite similar.

You are a citizen of NZ and by that your DD. She is also English since her father is English.

Financially who is responsible if your XWBF can delay the proceedings? Let’s say all sorts of evaluations are required. Could be mid next year before a decision is reached. At the least have your attorney answer whether you can sue him for costs and upbringing while the case drags on.

Talk both to the legal attaché at your embassy and your attorney about this. The attorney will tell you straight by the rules; the attaché will tell you real cases.

And PLEASE don’t use the NZ card as a last ditch attempt to get XWBF back!

excellent points !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />