EndlessHorizon - You know, porn can be something that can be shared between the two of you. Generally speaking men fantasize about the porn they are watching and use it as stimulation. It's how the porn is used to fantasize, and in what context that can be seriously damaging to yourself and others around you.

Okay, all in favor of EndlessHorizon's wife starring in a Porn flick so that we can all "fantasize," raise your hands?

How about you, EndlessHorizons? Or if not the wife, how about your sister or daughter?

MARRIAGE was given to us so that we don't have to "burn with lust." It was given to us to "complete" us in each other, not through others debasement of themselves. It was given to us for LOVE, not for personal agendas or "rationalizations." It was given to us to create the mystery of "one flesh" and there is room in a marriage for ONLY husband, wife, and God. NO third party, not in person or in video or in cyberspace, is to be allowed in any marriage that hopes to be successful. How about a little "drugs" because that will "stimulate?" Let the "camel's nose" into the tent, and then later be "surprised" that the whole camel is in there and living with camel in the tent is NOT conducive to a good marriage?

Perhaps you might want to rethink the ramifications of thinking Porn is "harmless."

God bless.

In all honesty, complete honesty, when I did porn it was always about a quick easy physical release.

Again, in 100% honesty, I cannot remember ever feeling that way with my W. With her it was always an intimate event. It was meaninglful to me. It made me feel close to her. I never thougth about the porn when I was with her.

I am not saying this is how it is with other guys, but it is how it was with me.

And that is not to minimize the overwhelmingly bad influence of porn. It was still wrong of me.

I must be brief, I'm at work. Thank-you for all of your support, please keep it coming. I'll be more available tomorrow. SLA- Ill email you, I think we can help each other.

thanks again.

"I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the discussions on porn at the moment. I know it's because of the hurt I feel, so I'm trying to not get too emotional."

• 
  Well, this course of action isn't for everyone, granted. I mean it's only been 3 weeks since my blowout that led to the porn viewing, and in turn it's fresh and new to me. However, I too was a closet porn viewer for ages. Funny thing is I used to be pretty adverse to it once upon a time. It wasn't until a friend of mine (who viewed it constantly) got me curious.

"I don't know what fantasies my H has. I've asked, he's told me he doesn't have any. He tells me he rarely thinks about sex. He isn't looking for anyone supposedly, yet he's frequenting "adults seeking" sites."

• That highlighted sentence sounds eerily familiar to me. Heh. IMO and experience it sounds like he may becoming a little detached from you for the time being. In my case, I used porn as a "substitute" to the loveless sex I was getting, and it satisfied the carnal craving without needing to physically cheat. Like I said though, my wife was still the star of the show if you know what I mean! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"I take that back. He did have one fantasy that he finally told me about. I provided it for him on a continuing basis, then he lost interest."

• Hmmm, sounds a bit like I did. I had a lot of repressed fantasies because they were too embarrassing to bring up. I always considered my wife to be prudish too, but holy ****** was I wrong! I'm glad I found that side of her out too! LOL Okay I degress. My point being, I think, was that while your husband was expressing a need, he probably wanted more, or variety. Fantasies are good for what they are... sometimes acting them out can be both good and bad, no?

"So while I understand that somehow porn has enhanced your marriage (I'm really, really sorry. I just can't understand that!!), it has done nothing but destroy mine. It can't be allowed, even if he thinks it would help."

• Yeah, like I said, to each their own. However, it's new to me yet, 3 weeks, in fact, and viewing it with the wife is a new experience. She says she's into it, and time will tell. However, just the candid nature, and willingness to experience new things sexually with me is depositing major love units... hehe.

"I don't know if I'm a prude, but if he can't live without it, then I'd rather be like WomanofFaith. I'll divorce, and with God's grace find a man who will actively live the life he portrays."

• Hmm, now that (bold) statement to me I can't fathom. LOL That's rough. People hide all forms of secrets all the while portraying a facade. It's probably that attitude that's scaring your husband into silence. I think you guys maybe should look into sex counceling or maybe a sexual intimacy video...? *shrugs* That may be the catalyst needed to break your husband out of his shell, while you still save face.

"It's all confusing to me right now. I want to love and trust my H again, but he revolts me. I lost almost all my deposits over the past 5 years. I don't know what I'm going to do."

• That's tough. I hope you the best. I understand your pain though. To sum up, porn's not even remotely thought about these days; I don't "cruise" for porn anymore, and would prefer just picking up a xxx-movie with a cheesy plot for the wife and I. Who knows, maybe in a few weeks, my fancy has changed!? I'll let you know if it does! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yummy! I shouldn't need to remind anyone here that we ARE animals, copulating like them isn't wrong. It's the raw emotion that's wonderful. And I can share that with my wife. Nothing turns me on more than my wife grinning devishly because she knows she's gonna get "it". Rrrwwr! To say that a reduction occurs because of a more "passionate" or "baser" urge to have sex, is way off IMO. However, the closer I get to an animal in bed, the better the tingles for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Trust me, we are considering making our own tape... I also want mirrors all over the walls and adult toys! She's down with it! W00t! I also have told her my fantasy about cunnilingual stimulation of her under a busy restaurants' table, somewhere in a dark corner. Am I a perv? LOL I don't know. I don't think I'm harming anyone if I were to act this out. That's public sex you know... pornography!

I don't want my daughter or wife, nor myself in the movies for mainstream viewing; however, that's not my choice of vocation, nor my wifes'. Which brings up my 2 YO daughter... If my daughter needs to be in that industry (whether it be stripping or other forms of "adult" entertainment), and as long as she's clear headed, and not being hurt, I can only accept it. I wouldn't make her an outcast because of her choices. However, being manipulated, harangued, or coerced into that position, I would not tolerate, and would die for her to extract her from that situation if I needed to.

Being so critical of the industry shouldn't be your goal. It'll be there for a long time to come, whether you want it to or not. It's ingrained in the culture now. Accepting it puts the money in the ladies' hands where it belongs, and not some "pimps'".

Speaking of the industry, I can tell you there is LOT'S of disrespectful and regunant stuff out there. That's not me, it's not what I'm looking for, and I agree that many of the "directors" should probably be locked up tightly for some of the stuff released. A monitored industry regulates safer and more restrictive policies (or so we hope). Also keep in mind, that I don't "need" it or demand that my wife views it, it's just another tool like a vibrator or edible oils.

Wow! Have you ever noticed that this website/forum is pretty busy? This forum for the most part is a haunting ground for lost souls. There's obviously plenty of people out there who tend to disagree with you. Why are you here? Did your significant other tend to disagree with your above views on marriage too, and felt like "adding" another party to the formulae? Are you saying that because my wife strayed, it's never going to be "successful" again? Unfortunately I vehemently reject your opinion , I'm normally a little more open-minded than that, my apologies.

Forever Hers, thank you for your post. It was right on.

EH


I believe that everyone who has psoted on this thread actually agress with FH, that is why they are here. The original poster is suffering from the pain of her H's continued porn use, and she is looking for support. that is why FH posted here.
Furthermore, everyone who posts here has suffered from the pain of infidelity, and for you to throw that back at FH like it was somehow his fault, is just not appropriate.

This has been a good thread for me. For the most part it was a place to come and say "My WxH's porn use was way out of control, made me feel like crap, and frankly contributed to the down fall of my M". It has been nice to have a place where I could go and just vent, without hearing the standard line that "all men do it, it is normal, they are visual"

I wanted to have a chance to stand up, and shout to the world that there ARE men who don't look at porn! I am now married to one of those men! And he is the sexiest man in the world. He makes me feel loved, and cherished, and that in turn fuels my desire for him. He puts me above all other women. And that makes him sexy.

Several people here are trying to say that porn has hurt them! EH - I, for one, went the route you and your wife are currently going. I told my WxH that I would view porn with him, beleiving that as long as we did it together it would somehow improve our R. It did not. the more I saw of it, the lower I felt. When I tried to back off of it I was labelled a prude. I wish I had it all to do over again. I would have put my foot down and said no third party is going to enter into my marriage! For my WxH the pictures progressed to movies, the movies progressed to carrying on relationships with OW by email, then by phone, and finally in person. My WxH left me for OW #1, she dumped him, and then he started an A with another married woman. he has completely lost sight of all boudaries in marriage-in his M and those of other people as well. It is very sad.


I need to get off this thread now, becuase it as taken a bad turn that hurts my heart.

FH- keep fighting for the sanctity of M. Those of us who stand for the Godly view of marriage, between H and W ONLY, need to be more vocal. We need to show ourselves to the light of day so that people are no longer saying that EVERYONE views porn. Instead, we need to stand up and say "not everyone, not me".

"...We need to show ourselves to the light of day so that people are no longer saying that EVERYONE views porn. Instead, we need to stand up and say "not everyone, not me".

Well, I for one am not totally convinced I'm insulting people here. I may be a little secular in my beliefs, but I still share the same values at their core. For FH to imply that I would "like" my family to be a part of the industry under the guise of an opinion is insulting, and borderline incestuous.

I think both you and I agree that there are plenty of heartbroken souls here. It's just that it's also pretty obvious that his demagoguery isn't well thought out- we're on an Infidelity website for Pete's sake! Third parties are an obvious inclusion to all here, sorry to say. If you prefer to use porn as a "tool", then why not? Arguing the moral implications is, I think, best left for another website, one I never signed up to post on- that's for sure.

I have been saying my piece, and in doing so, have said many things to help others. Mainly directed at SoLostAgain; but anyone who wants to can read what I'm saying and dissect the underlying problems I had with porn and my relationship. You're right- not everyone views porn, great. However, my wife made an effort to please me, and regardless if it works or not, it's scoring huge Love Bank Deposits right now!

I'm not forcing anything upon my wife, against her wishes. This is a mutual decision. Read the POJA for further info.

Those who don't wish to participate with the porn, can also read why I hid it from my wife for so long, and possible ways out of such a conundrum. In future I'll try to stick with just replying to those replying to me. Sorry to cause you to grief.

Okay, I think I may have a glimmer of why your posts bother me.

You keep intimating that if I were just a little more open he would share with me. That he wants more variety, more fun, more whatever.

What I don't think you are understanding is that I have been! He flat out refuses to talk about it. If you will remember my first posts to NTT, I stated I've dragged us to Marriage counsellors 4 times. Two of them for sexual healing. He refuses to do any of the exercises, sulks and will not particpate. I come to bed naked, rubbing up against him, and all he can tell the therapist is that I'm not aggressive enough, he's too tired, he just isn't in the mood.

We were lucky to have sex 2ce a month. I can't even begin to tell you how lucky I feel to even HAVE children.

This is NOT MY FAULT. He is the one chosing to go to these women on these sites. I have tried over and over and over again. I got the sex tapes. I asked him to try the various positions. I bought him books on books on books with illustrations and recommendations. STILL HE CHOSE PORN.


OOOOOOOO. I am angry - but not at you. At your attitude really. If he saw the stuff you were writing, he'd used that to justify what he did and contiues to do.

It has only been 3 weeks for your experience you say. So, would you agree with me that porn is progressive? What happens when what you're watching now doesn't do it for ya? What happens when she wants to include other people?

Maybe it's because I'm a Christian, maybe it's because I was raped at a young age and sexually exploited in my teens and 20s. But it is absolutely BEYOND me how you can be so blind to the negative aspects of what you are doing.

But you're right. To each his own. I can't condemn you. Even God allows you to make whatever choice you want to. Just stop trying to make it sound like I'm the problem between my husband and I.

Now, it's possible you didn't even mean that in the slightest. If not, I apologize. But don't ever, ever say to me again that if I would just be more open, he'd come to me. Oh no. I'm the open, adventurous one. He's the one that has and is consistently refusing any sexual healing in our marriage. NINE YEARS OF TRYING.

AHHHHH! You've really upset me. LOL.

Thanks for your perspective anyway.

EndlessHorizon – There is little point in discussing anything with you, but I’ll give it one last try. We come at things like obedience to God and the sanctity of marriage from different perspectives. Of course there are plenty of people “out there” who disagree with me. That’s not surprising, humans have been “disagreeing” with God for a long time and will also disagree with anyone who stands for God’s commands and teaching. Of course there are lots of people on this forum who are trying to deal with the devastation of affairs that were entered into, in many cases, “innocently” at the beginning and the got out of hand. One truth you can take to the bank whether you agree with me or not is that ALL actions have consequences. The “jury is in” with respect to Pornography, just look at all the research and life testimonies of people affect by the “victimless” problem of pornography. But for the folks who are here, they are here because they believe in the sanctity of marriage and are trying to “right the ship” after the violent hurricane has struck.



Uh huh. Rationalization is in high gear. It’s “okay” if someone else does it. It’s “okay” if you use it and bring it into your marriage. It’s “acceptable” if your daughter chooses that.

I assume it’s also okay if your wife, because as long as she's clear headed, and not being hurt, CHOOSES to engage in an affair, by extension of your own stated “LOGIC.” Therefore, I would be curious as to why YOU are on marriage builders if there’s no “right and wrong” behavior, only that which is “acceptable” because someone “chooses” that behavior.

Rationalization, situational ethics, justifications….they are ALL used to “excuse” wrong behavior. If your set of “standards” let’s you do whatever you feel like doing, you are welcome to your opinion. But I claim the same right you claim for yourself and do not need you to try to “win your argument” through your sarcasm.

“Speaking of the industry, I can tell you there is LOT'S of disrespectful and regunant stuff out there. That's not me, it's not what I'm looking for, and I agree that many of the "directors" should probably be locked up tightly for some of the stuff released. A monitored industry regulates safer and more restrictive policies (or so we hope).”

More of the same rationalization. A “little sin” is good just so long as we keep it “regulated” and “sanctioned.” Right. Care to extend that logic to other situations? WHO decides WHERE the “line is drawn” and how much of the “camel’s nose” to let into the tent while thinking you can keep him from getting fully into the tent?



EH, you’re “playing with fire” and hoping you never get burned. Good luck. You want to play and use toys, have at it. There is little that a husband and wife can’t do that they mutually agree to. But pornography is in a totally different class than costumes and mechanical aids.

"It has only been 3 weeks for your experience you say. So, would you agree with me that porn is progressive? What happens when what you're watching now doesn't do it for ya? What happens when she wants to include other people?"

• Threesome? Well, heh, that was one of my fantasies that I confessed to, and she was utterly shocked (again because she had fantasized about this herself for years since she was a teenager) that I would be sensitive enough to want to pleasure her with another partner. Before I get smote though- let me explain why we're introducing the porn. We don't think it's practical, nor proper to introduce a threesome. As well, it can be emotionally unhealthy and extremely damaging to our relationship. I care about my wife, and sharing her with another is simply out of the question. So in lieu of the real thing, we "simulate" the experience with a movie. It feels like another is in the room, the actions onscreen mimic our fantasies, and no one gets hurt.
  
  As for my viewing habits? They have dropped considerably since the wife and I began watching the videos. I don't think it's progressive for me, I never really was "addicted" to it to begin with though. All the wife needed to know was that I'm not replacing our sexual experiences with someone I'm watching on-screen. I can assure her, I don't. I feel free now, our talks on sexual fantasy, experiences, hopes and wishes has been entirely liberating and filled with growth potential.
  
  If the movies aren't fulfilling anymore? We stop watching them, and we'll begin with the role-play. I'll be the mean old rent-collector, and yet again, my wife does not have enough money for the bills this month. *sigh* Now, the rent collector needs [i]something in return, I wonder what that could be... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />[/i]

"Maybe it's because I'm a Christian, maybe it's because I was raped at a young age and sexually exploited in my teens and 20s. But it is absolutely BEYOND me how you can be so blind to the negative aspects of what you are doing.

But you're right. To each his own. I can't condemn you. Even God allows you to make whatever choice you want to. Just stop trying to make it sound like I'm the problem between my husband and I."

• Oh please SoLostAgain! Give me credit. It's not your fault at all. What I explained, I drew from my own personal experiences, NOT from some written-in-stone psychology textbook. It sounds like the problem resides fully in your husbands' head, and if he's choosing porn over you, then that really sucks. I'd be pissed to. You seem to have been receptive to various ideas and potential solutions, while he rejects them. That's truly sad. If he were to read this thread, I can assure you, I would NOT enable him to continue hurting the woman he's supposed to love and cherish...

"STILL HE CHOSE PORN."

• Again, I don't know what to say. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. I don't think repressing sexual desires is a good thing though. Being too free is just as damaging as well. You'll both need to find a fine balance I think, something that suits you both. However, if what you've described is true, he doesn't seem to think you're serious enough about his viewing habits. Maybe you should kill the internet connection, and destroy his porn collection?
  
  Sorry to get you all wound up, it wasn't my intention at all, nor was it to infer that what is happening in your life is entirely your fault, it isn't; however, more likely than not, there are under-lying issues you're both bringing to the table that are causing this problem to continue. If it bothers you so much, why haven't you thrown his [censored] out of the house yet? If something was so morally offensive to me, there's no way it'd be thriving in my household. Again, I wish you luck. I know how terrible it must be for you, especially considering your horrible past experiences.

"I assume it’s also okay if your wife, because as long as she's clear headed, and not being hurt, CHOOSES to engage in an affair, by extension of your own stated “LOGIC.” Therefore, I would be curious as to why YOU are on marriage builders if there’s no “right and wrong” behavior, only that which is “acceptable” because someone “chooses” that behavior."

• Well, if you look under which posts I have made, you'll see why I'm here. As for my wifes' decisions? I'm not her keeper. I can only support her fully, respect her and her Emotional Needs, and hope for the best. I unfortunately took her for granted, and treated her as though I didn't love her. I realized my mistakes. Despite my actions, I had full faith in her, yet (understandably) she betrayed me.
  
  There's nothing more that I can do to assure myself that she won't do that again. Hopefully the freedom in our discussions these days opens the doors wide to a productive, affair-free relationship. If not... well, I can say I tried, that's it. I'll cross those bridges when I come to them. Yet I have faith in our bond, I'm more than certain I will grow old with her, and die with her.

"More of the same rationalization. A “little sin” is good just so long as we keep it “regulated” and “sanctioned.” Right. Care to extend that logic to other situations? WHO decides WHERE the “line is drawn” and how much of the “camel’s nose” to let into the tent while thinking you can keep him from getting fully into the tent?"

• The government regulates TONS of industries that could be classified as "sinful"... booze, drug companies, banks, smoking industry, gambling, mass media, weapons trade, the choices are endless. It's when the trades and industries go "underground" that the camel is more than free to walk where it likes- a good example would be the street drug trade. Regulate that stuff, and the average creep on the corner would be put out of business next to the government controlled industries/products.

LOL. I knew this subject would be very explosive for me, but it's good that I can talk to you without you calling me a dimwitted prude. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yep, I've gotten that before....

I guess I wasn't very clear in earlier posts. The boy is no longer living here, I refuse to speak to him until he answers questions and takes a lie detector test. What he has done is beyond offensive to me. He also says he is not addicted to porn. I don't know.

Like I said before, it very well could be because I was raped, then molested on several occasions that I have such strong reactions to all of this. All of my molestations happened because of porn use by the perpetrator. So that may give you a good idea why I thought you were saying it was all my fault. I've gotten that more often than you know.

None of the MCs knew of H's activities. I was told I had a higher sex drive, I just needed to be more aggressive, I could never say no, I could never tell him if he was making me uncomfortable, yada yada. All because he led everyone to believe that he was a moral, upright standing Christian who finds porn offensive and a source of objectifying women which is just totally wrong.

I worry at attitudes like yours. I'm trying to figure out why. To me, it seems like such a crazy thing to do. Why invite a scorpion in bed just because it might add some spice?

As I said, it isn't my place to condemn you. I certainly didn't want to come across that way. Your (and your wife's) decision is more than frightening to me. I'm afraid my husband will look at people like you, then tell me unless I am open & willing, I am unworthy of being touched.

I've given guidelines on what my H needs to do to even get me to give him the time of day. Where I am now is a place of frightened anger. I don't want to contemplate trusting him again. I don't want to be used again. I don't want to feel so totally unlovable as I have for the last 9 years.

Thanks for taking my outburst in stride. I know it helps to talk these kinds of things out, but this is a totally new experience to me, so I'm sure I'll look like a crazy fool again at some point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

And again NTT, I've just taken over your thread. I hope my questions, rants and so forth are helping. I'll be waiting to hear from you.

God bless.

Post moved to this thread

NTT-
Are you still around? Did you, by any chance, read the separate thread I started in this section of the forum to ask a question about my husband's porn use (so as not to interfere with your thread)? If not, check it out. At the moment, it's on page 3. "Just Learning" wrote some things that were particularly helpful to me. I don't know whether they apply to your situation, but you might find a useful insight or two there. I'm thinking of you...
--SC

Hi NTT,

I hope the discussions about the porn issue from both sides haven't scared you off. I certainly don't want to contribute to someone leaving the forum.

I hope you have been considering what you are willing to do to find the truth from your H. As well as how much you want to know. At first, I wanted to know EVERYTHING, but after my initial digging around, I'm not so sure anymore. My coach is going to give H a list of questions (last time I looked I think it was up to 16 pages!), but I'm getting more and more scared at what the answers will be.

I'm sure you realize that this issue won't just go away. It has to be faced head-on and faced now. It's a scary proposition, but you're well worth it.

Let us know if you're still there.

Deleted. Transferred to thread started by Suzete.

Hey SoLostAgain, I don't mind the debates, but the moralistic arguing is something I don't need. I've pretty much summed up my case here. I wish you the best in the dealings with your husband. Sounds like there's a tough time ahead for you.

Again read through my posts, and how I saw things from a mans' perspective, without the moral quibbles inbetween, and you may find some truth... or not. I'm not here to judge, just give my side of the story. Either way... I wish you release from your emotional storm.

PS- I wouldn't think of calling you a "dimwitted prude". Heh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Everyone,
I'm sorry that I disappeared for awhile. Sun-Tues are my busiest days and I just couldn't get on the computer long enough to write anything.

SC-I read your other post and what everyone said makes sense. So now that we have decided to get our H's addicted to us, how do we go about doing it? My H has a hard time telling me about his "feelings". I printed out the EN questionaire, but he hasn't touched it. I finished mine. I asked him to do it last week and suggested we exchange them this Friday, he agreed. So, we'll see.

Sorry, Endless, but I agree with most of the other posters. I don't want porn in our R. I don't agree that porn is in the same catagory as toys, oils, etc. When using toys the focus is still on one another, no other human is involved. I actually know someone who was so happy about how open his wife was about porn use and strip clubs, until she cheated on him with a woman. I have to wonder if she was really "fantisizing" about him or the woman. I know a few other people that don't see a problem with it and oddly enough, they are either divorced or dealing with affairs. To each their own, but this is not something I am open to.

SLA- I am very much like you. I wouldn't mind giving my H SF everyday if he wanted it. I have initiated alot of adventurous things, role playing, food, oils, toys, etc. I want to know my H's "fantasies", as long as they involve only me. I even made a strip tease video for him after the previous time we disagreed on the porn issue. So it hurts me deeply that he still decided to hid these videos from me.

I want to satisfy him, and I'm not against masterbation, I just don't like the use of porn. I feel that it is "mental adultery", being stimulated by the sight of another woman.

Things have been going well between us and I think that scares me more. I wonder if it is guilt, or he's trying to pacify me, or covering up more lies. I really, really want to believe that he cares about how hurt I was and that, even though he doesn't understand why I feel this way, he is willing to respect and protect my feelings. I don't know if my feelings for him can take another hit.