Hi Cherished, sound like you had a good morning with the children.

How is your H reacting to your asking for a separation? Is he continuing to stay in a hotel?

Lady

That's WS babble. My RB retort when I was told those same words:

WS: U always have to have your way.

BS: Not usually, you know that. But for now, I guess it has t/b that way..... do you trust your way? I don't.

WS: Uhh...duh...uhm.....uhhhh....

BS: (this moment was priceless). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

He asked if he could come home, and he did. I think I scared him. How absurd that he would think it unfair to take our children to have dinner with my parents three days before my father has surgery. A broken arm didn't wake me up at all, exposure of affair got me upset, but this incredible lack of empathy irritated me enough to ask him to leave. I hope this is it because a woman who copes will end up not caring. I'd rather be divorced.

Cherished

Cherished, I came upon something by accident, while looking for something else. I have read alot of Harley concepts, but I hadn't this one. So I really don't think I found it by accident...it was meant to happen. It's something I needed to hear for myself. Because I know "H and I" have been in Withdrawl for a few days now, and it's usually one or the other much of time. It's such a sick cycle. It's frustrating, and I know it frustrates my H too. I hate it.

But when I read this...(and it will take some time to sink in for me)....but I thought of you too. Link below.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html
The Third State of Mind Withdrawl

Withdrawal. It tries to convince you that your spouse is not worth the effort, and you should engage in emotional divorce.

The thoughtless behavior by each spouse toward the other becomes too great to bear, so they stop caring. Trust is a faint memory.


Lady

Ladysheep,

Harley told me the same thing:
"The reason I don't recommend a relationship of emotional divorce is that you end up becoming an uncaring wife. With plan A and plan B you offer your husband either a caring relationship or no relationship at all. In your situation, emotional divorce is tempting because your husband is gone most of every week. By ignoring him on weekends, you might be able to get by for a while. But you would be seen by your children as a cold and unresponsive wife -- something you are not. Besides, eventually your husband's physical abuse and infidelity would return, and you'd be blamed by being unresponsive to him."

My sister in law has told me that she is coping with her bad marriage to Tom's brother and will last out until the children are older. She is pleasant with him and they seem to get along, but her eyes are dead. She told me she envies that Tom travels so much.

I haven't really considered the idea of simply giving up prior to now and letting him do what he wants, but I can see that it's so obviously a bad idea because of what it does to you personally that I won't consider it anymore. Actually, emotional divorce seems similar to the 180 approach. That's more or less what my IC has recommended.

The forum does give me a chance to think through things. I've concluded I need him out of the house if he can't treat me well -- regardless of the financial consequences.

Cherished

Good on you. Money isn't everything.

Make a plan though, tuck a bit away if possible, talk to a lawyer, or whoever you need to talk to to find out where you stand financially without him.

Hey, you might even find someone else eventually. Someone who is a better role model for the kids.

All the best

I believe in commitment to marriage. I won't find someone else eventuallly.

But I do have a plan. I have a lawyer. I have an MBA. I've only been out of the workforce 6 years.

This isn't Pakistan. I don't need to stand for such treatment, and our kids don't need to witness it.

Harley's right. Plan C -- or the 180 -- hurts the person who follows that plan.

Cherished

H and I were becoming "ED" which is what led to his A and me considering one myself! He works 2nd shift and I went back to work the same time he got this job (April, after being a SAHM). We never saw each other during the M-F week.
By the weekends we threw ourselves into our own things to avoid each other as we were building so much anger and resentment towards each other. Neither of us was meeting each others EN at all!

I had tried Plan A'ing (before I knew what it was) but I was never consistant. But I have now realised that when I do plan A for Me when he is not around, it makes me stronger to deal with him when he IS around. When I am consistant and work harder at improving ME and my ways of thinking, it has shown through to my H and I am stronger and more appealing to him, rather than if I am only focused on him and what ever negative things he is doing or not doing.

Did that make ANY sense? LOL... I am struggling to find the words to say to make my point.

When he sees me consistantly focused in a positive way toward everything I am doing it has drawn him closer to me. When he is home and has been in his fogs I have to try extra hard to remain positive and calm and focused on the kids, my work, or what ever is going on, and to be thoughtful to him in whatever way I can regardless of if he is receptive to me or not. When I am, he has noticed and I have seen how it will lift him out of the fogs and draw him nearer, melt whatever frost may have been starting to form on his heart & his brain.

Your H may have an ice berg to melt in his brain, but I wonder if you were able to stay strong and consistantly plan A yourself to the hilt if it wouldn't start to draw him in????
I don't know if I am helping any, or if I make any sense!
I just know that I can understand where you are at and I know how much it hurts to live like you are "ED".

Take care {{{hugs}}}

What makes sense is that my willingness to cope was really an emotional divorce. When the affair came out, he told me I ignored him. Ignored him? He was the one who wanted to train for a marathon and go golfing and sing in the church choir -- he was the one who kept saying "Leave me alone." Because he also told me I was too demanding and too controlling, I tried to say yes to everything I could tolerate.

My health has suffered to the point that I am concerned about continuing -- stress reactions, weight gain... I truly cannot cope anymore. And maybe that's good.

How can I truly care about him if I am trying to cope with his poor treatment of me? Harley's #1 rule for negotiating: make it pleasant and safe. From now on, if it isn't, I'm out of the conversation.

Cherished

Cherished,

What would happen to a child that never got love and affection from a parent. Never got hugged kissed loved and snuggled? What would happen to that child if the parent NEVER talk/communicated to him/her.

OMG, Just think what a horrible sad sight to see a child never loved. The child would wither away and die inside.

It's the same thing when our S doesn't love us, hold us, hug us kiss us, communicate with us. We wither away and die inside. The marriage dies inside. It's so sad to even think of this...

It's no different we need the same kind of love a child does.

All the basic needs that Harley preaches which are acts of love we give to our children except SF. We give the...
Affection...Conversation....Recreational Companionship...
Honesty & Openess...Physical Attractiveness...Financial Support...Domestic Support...Family Committment...Admiration.

We don't withhold these acts of love to our children. And with these acts of love, the children thrive and are so happy. Why is it we withold these acts of love from our spouses when it's so simple?


I guess that is why Jesus tells us to be childlike, to be like children, children love us unconditionally. And we love them unconditionally.

When I get angry at my child for doing something wrong he is right there 2 minutes later hugging me up. Why can't marriages be like this? And the answer...because we are adults is no excuse. It's so simple, yet so difficult.

Lady

What happens to a 6 year old child who tries to calm her father down because he is yelling "B...s..." at her mother, and the response is "Shut up!" Today, that child runs to her mother and bawls. What about tomorrow?

Cherished

I'll tell you what happens to that child. That child is damaged for life. It will be something the child struggles with even as a grown adult. The emotional scars will be deep. Having a healthy marriage will be difficult to nearly impossible.

What I want to know is what is wrong with the mother of that child that she does not protect the child from witnessing such behavior?

Marriages are not to be saved at all costs.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Susan

Cherished many years ago I was married to such a man as your Wh. My sons witnessed alot of abuse by him. When I finally got him out of the house my oldest was 2, youngest was 1. I struggled finacially howeveer, the day I knew it was for the best came shortly. My 2 yr old was playing in the living room and all of a sudden looked up at me and said You know what Mom? Its real nice around here now that Dad doesn't live here. I used to say we do not have much money but we have alot of love around here. We did and we made it and those boys are now in their mid twenties and we love each other so much. Their father never changed and they have little to no contact with him. Sometimes we ned to do things for the children and it ends up better for ourselves.

Oh realtor,
It is so hard to face the truth.

Our six year old is SO sensitive. She sucks her thumb. She cries easily. She is the type of child who always wants and needs a hug.

My husband doesn't see it, of course, but it's almost as if we are under siege when he is home. He is traveling several days per week for his job. When he is home, it is a lot more tense. My 11 year old said that she likes when he's not home because then we don't fight.

My husband's office is closed from December 23 through January 2. That is a lot of time.

I am not perservering for myself. Had we no children, I'd have divorced him long ago. I still believe in a commitment to marriage no matter what. I would not remarry -- ever. But, with children, it is different.

A change is imminent. My health is collapsing. Our children are doing very well is school. They seem to be able to enjoy life, still. I am concerned that their joy is like a candle that is lit and at some point that little light is extinguished.

Cherished

You and your children have a really painful situation, Cherished. Sending all of you prayers.

This thread was very helpful for me.

I came to realize that I cannot stand the idea of living in a marriage of emotional divorce. I did it before but with the hope that my tolerance would convince my husband that I really do care about him. I confused love with sacrifice. He was off training for a marathon and engaged in extracurricular activities with a woman who had a family of her own.

This is the "180 plan" really -- live your own life so your spouse will wake up and want to be with you.

It's New Years Eve. I will never ever settle for anything that smells of disregard.

A better new year to everyone trying to recover from the devastation of an affair --
Cherished

(((((((((((Cherished)))))))))))))))

Bellevue,
No matter what, this will be a better year. My husband was telling me the other day that I don't appreciate what I have -- the ability to stay home with four kids -- and I told him that the cost was my own dignity, my safety, and the emotional well-being of myself and our children. The cost was too high.

Cherished

Wow Cherished, what a very insightful wise and truthful response. I only hope he listened.

Lady

I understand. I am enjoying the feeling of self-respect that grows within every day.