For the story (I must warn you they are long posts as I had much to say) here are my posts:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

and

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

I visited my WW at the hospital tonight and found discrepancies along with things I didn’t like. She did the typical and I will explain but first...Instead of reading my very long posts I will say that my WW has a mental illness and suffered from a mental breakdown and had an A 6 weeks ago. It lasted a total of 3 days where she had the “plan” to pursue a PA the first morning and did things that I cannot fathom as she is a very discreet and traditional woman in bed.

Now for the typical…Since she has been in the Hospital for 5 weeks for attempted suicide hours after her last encounter with the OP tonight she had a panic attack. She is getting out on Friday and will be spending the next 18 weeks in therapy. The panic attack stunned me because she is returning home and should be better. I then thought that it was emotional withdrawal from the OP. I confronted her about it tonight and she became very agitated with my distrust. In my previous post I indicated she has lied our whole marriage. Now I am unsure that the PA didn’t include an EA due to her reactions. About six months ago she started telling me that this OP showed her concerns about her health and other things that others didn’t pay attention too. I was insecure about this as though she was telling that I was failing in this regard. Truth is she was pushing me away that I couldn’t fight for her needs as she always made me beg. So a long story short I think she may have had emotional feelings with the OP but she persists that it was an illness breakdown (and with her history it may very well be).

With all that I’ve indicated in my posts, I am at the conclusion that I must sever all ties with my business, Wife and family in order to get better and prosper. I have always stood on my own two feet when times became rough. My family had their backs turned from me throughout my life due to my brothers childhood medical history. My family was my insecurities over the last year and now my wife’s actions over the last 6 weeks is also included in my feelings of betrayal from all sides. I am at the point that all can go to he[l and I will find my ground on my own 2 feet as I always did.

Do any of you think I am wrong with this irrational thinking? Should I be questioning my W with respect to an EA vs. a PA as I am thinking she is using her mental illness as an excuse especially since she has the tendency to lie and has throughout our marriage?

"Do any of you think I am wrong with this irrational thinking?"

Yep. You are much too early in this to make any rash decisions. Please keep reading and posting here.

Are you actually thinking of leaving your wife, kids, and job? YIKES!!!!!!

Getting there yeah. I actually started thing of leaving my W and company (in which I own equal share of) before I found out about the A. I agree its way too early for me to decipher based upon the A but with what's happened before the A and my thoughts before I'm not so sure. It's almost like now it's inevitable especially with her reactions. Really, I don't see anything keeping me from leaving it all behind and starting fresh. I was unsure about my W prior to the A based on her ending both our EN’s and was confiding in her that I must find myself with or without her. Now with what she did while under the influence of illnesses and how she is reacting now it’s pushing me further away. Instead of 50% uncertainty I am getting to the point that its way less percentage that she has a chance with me. Again, based upon my posts, it’s been a very long 12 years of lies and deceit. Confused yes, unsure yes, doubtful yes, hurt yes and then some…I just can’t figure out how I am going to be the character and prosperous person that I was with this baggage other than standing on my own 2 feet as I have always done.

On whose feet are you standing now?? On whose feet will your three kids be standing if you leave?? The feet of your mentally unstable, suicidal wife??

I have compassion for your pain and understand that your first instinct is to run, but you are not alone in life and, as a parent, you have an obligation to act in the best interest of your children.

Good post CktC. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now IsitWorthit, where is your game plan. R U willing to have a phone counseling session with Steve or Jennifer @ MB? Would do you a world of good.

L.

Worthit,

Do any of you think I am wrong with this irrational thinking?

As much as it hurts, and the uncertainties are multiplied, please don't make any hasty decisions. I know it's overwhelming. Your children need you more that ever right now because mom isn't going to be "there" for a while, if ever.

Time will tell just how bad the breakdown was for her.
I know it's been long painful haul, and you just want something for you in your life now, and you don't see that happening with you wife. I know it's draining to you, has effected your job and takes up most of your time. Now you will have to take most of the care of the children for the next 18wks, and after, depending on where she is mentally.

How many hours a day will she be in the day program?

1.Try to make one decision at a time. But don't make the decision to leave yet. Your children need you, and you have to have a plan.

2. Maybe going to work part-time while your W is in the day program would help you get your mind off of all it for a while, and help you feel a little more prosperous. And if you could do that, do you have someone available for childcare?


I know seeing your wife have a panic attack doesn't make things look good, but she has also been on a lot of meds.
I'm not a Dr. but I wonder if panic attacks could be side effects to meds, or withdrawl? Any how it shows you that she is not well, and you don't know how long, if ever if she will get well. Let the Dr and mental heath workers take the most care of her.
This is where you have to let go, not physically but detach from her illness. Not easy, but God can help you do it. You cannot carry the load of her illness daily.

There are questions you will need to ask the Dr. such as what to look for as far as dangerous warning signs...etc.


Now...this is the serious part...and I know you worry the most about. Because the last few months have been so bizarre for your W and her fantasies of you and her, groups of other people, then the EA/PA. The fact that she doesn't hesitate to talk to you about it, is bothersome I know, because you know it is not normal. And you have to keep telling her that. Talking and getting some guidance on with a trusted counseler would help you on how to handle that part with your wife should it come up again. And you will need to do that before she leaves the hospital.

Should I be questioning my W with respect to an EA vs. a PA as I am thinking she is using her mental illness as an excuse especially since she has the tendency to lie and has throughout our marriage?

You have the right to ask all the question you need to know, and expect total honesty. I wanted details from my H. Some don't care about all the details, but it helped me in my recovery to know everything. So you ask her as many questions as you would like. Don't be afraid of it hurting her, you need to know. (If she has a contact person or psychologist in the hospital, you may want to ask that person to be with you when asking her the questions. It may help you feel safe asking her that way.) Again, I say don't be afraid of hurting her by asking her the questions.
Believe me... it will only help.


And do not give into her bizarre fantasies! Tell her you will not disrespect her again to be with someone else, and you will not tolerate her disrespecting you and dishonoring the vows of your marriage by her being with someone else.. It was wrong...period... and it will not happen again. That is where some good spiritual counsel could help also....if you both want it.

Worthit, I'm not telling you that you need to stay with your wife for the duration, but making hasty decisions to leave right now would not be in the best interest of your children. But the above advice is at least some temporary guidance to get you through until you know without a shadow of a doubt as to what to do. In time, you might change your mind and want to stay and work the marriage. In time, you may not.

Hoping and praying for the best,
Lady

First, I would like to rationalized what I’ve been saying and the questions I’ve been asking. If my thoughts before the A were to try MC (even had an appointment set up before the A without my W knowing because she would have had a negative reaction to it), and with all my attempts to reach my “ill” W has failed over the last year, or leave the company and my wife, what does that say now with all that I have to endure. I have been reading many posts and information on this site and this is what is causing my drowning thoughts. The fact that I must endure and overcome much more now than I had to prior to the A. I was losing my own mental, physical and emotional battle prior to the A mostly due to the company and my W ending our EN’s. My thoughts of my own well being prior to the A was unbearable. But now it’s way more. For my own sanity I have had many negative thoughts prior to the A. The anger, fear, sadness, pain and confusion that built up prior to the A are two fold after the A and is frightening. Again, for my own sanity…

I’m not standing on my own 2 feet that’s for sure. But I will not be able to stand on them either with what I am going through and have gone through before the A. You are all right about the children. They do need me and I never intended to deprive them of their needs. Truthfully, I have not been there for them for a while. And I feel guilty for that. Totally my fault because I was too weak to rid of the pressures that surrounded me. Although I did ask my family and partners to back off many times with heart felt emails and conversations so I could spend more time with my family but they wouldn’t have it. They kept patronizing me and my W and my W understood that what I had to do could not be helped as she too was pressured. How could I/we let this happen??? What have I/we done??? Regardless, you are all right.

For sure I am willing to have a counseling session with whomever I can. But truthfully I can’t afford it. Just to keep things at bay and with my W’s loss of income it’s all gone out of control. All our savings went to my salary for the past 2 years. The company is now able to afford my income but cannot yet supplement my W’s. All promises from my partners that it would all be OK far too long. What can I say…bloodsuckers. I’m trying to pull it together again to fix this financial burden.

My W has been very supportive and affectionate most of the times but can also turn quickly as she has a right to. But it’s all is so confusing because she was not prior to the A. Now it’s like she is doing it to keep me at bay. Not really sure what to think about this affection, support or attention. She is working with her Occupational Therapist today on what she wants to say to my partners. Not sure if it’s for my/hers or both our benefit but she wants to meet with them next week to “tell them off” I guess. She wants to fight the battle of how they’ve been wrong. Frankly I am glad she is being assertive but I think it’s too soon for her. Her Dr’s feel different so I will set up a meeting. In my confused emotions, I feel very close to her at times and the rest of the time I am worried about my own sanity. My moods swing so fast I can tell it’s irrational. That’s why I worry about it and wonder if time away is justified. But yet again you are all right about the children. Again, I’m frightened with all that’s happened prior to the A and all that I am going through now. Also frightened should she “break” down again. I don’t think I will allow any more pain and fear for myself with that comment alone.

She said the panic attack was guilt about what she did, the hurt she’s caused and fear. But she couldn’t tell me any details. She has not told me anything on her own free will (with everything not just the A). I’ve asked the questions about our relationship, feelings, the A, etc. and she answers bluntly. She doesn’t offer information. What she told me about her thoughts and fantasies was not her will to come out with it as she only told me because I asked or begged out of her because I knew she was thinking differently sexually (I have been to the sites with respect to sex addicts and found much useful information but she needs to try and address it). It’s always a one sided conversation of how to overcome our M problems, thoughts, feelings or even what she is going through with the Dr’s. I ask, she answers with a one liner and the conversation ends if I don’t keep asking. Even with counseling, we would be asked a question and she will sit their waiting until I answer first and sometimes she never gets to answer the question because we move on to something else. I will ask her after and she conveniently forgets what her answer would have been. Complete avoidance with anything negative. This sucks! I can’t possibly think that she will be able to help me overcome our problems or help us.

Thanks to all.

Hi, IsItWorthIt.

The very first thing you must do is to see to the safety and security of your children. They need a hero and someone to champion their cause. That MUST be you.

Hire a lawyer and find out if you can obtain legal custody of your children if you have not done so already. Do this even if you have to sell something to raise the money. If you need to, use your wife's condition as legal leverage. Again, your children are what is important here, not how you feel. They deserve to have at least one sane parent.

Thirdly, and I want you to understand, I am speaking from experience, NOT as a professional in the psychiatric field. Your wife is very likely to have repeat episodes. Talk to her psychiatrist or physician.

While it is a good thing to care for your wife through sickness and health, you do not have to care for her through repeated adulteries. No one has a right to demand that of you. You are on firm moral ground should you decide that you do not want to stay married to her. That is 100% YOUR decision.

Sorry if I have repeated advice already given.

All the best,
Gimble

Can you give me some insight as to your experiences? Is this really how it’s going to be (just as I have been feeling and fear of especially with our history)?

I have not and will not take my children from their mother. I would never end this in turmoil. I have always believed if a relationship should end it should end as friends and have always worked that way (although I understand that it rarely ends this way). I am not vindictive and will not be at any point. Things should be mutual unless I see that she is not trying to be mutual. Children need their mother more so than a father. She has been able to keep it together with the children and show much love for them. She has the incapacity to show that to adults but is a very loving and companionate mother and I will not deprive my children of that. I may take action to ensure their safety but will abide my principals and feelings toward a healthy mother and her love for her children. I guess I am waking up to what many of you have been telling me based on your replies and her emotional distraught as I fear she may try to take her life again should I leave now. this would be detrimental to our children and must ensure this doesn't happen to our children as I have seen what it can do to children to lose a parent this way.

With that being said, I will ensure that she is well prior to my leaving. I think she is realizing the inevitable. With what happened tonight I am certain that while I am hurting I must take care of my “ill wife” prior to my needs. My children need me to see her through this. Not only for the children but she is still human and is the one that I love regardless if I am going to leave her or not and she needs to get better with my help and I will see that through. I thought differently yesterday but with what I saw tonight I know it in my heart. Tonight she displayed the most emotional distraught I have ever seen in someone. Her panic attack, remorse and guilt set in and I have never seen anyone ask for the lords help as much as I saw tonight. She sobbed and cried out loud as if it was harder than someone screaming at the top of their lungs. She is in need as a human and the one that I love more so than any other time and I will see her through this tough time. This will allow her the time she needs to get over the fact that I am leaving her on good terms. I am still willing to got to MC and talk to whomever may help but still feel mostly that I must go. Maybe time will change my thoughts…Who knows as I am too confused to see it.

Does anyone think I am doing the right thing here (Although I didn’t feel the same yesterday until I have read the replies and with the display I saw by my W tonight)?

WorthIt

Your statements are correct but the application in your current situation does not match. Why? Because a WS does not act with the compassion of a true human. In fact their actions are so alien to the sane humans of this world, that they get away with almost murder.

You want your children to be with their mother, you should but think about this...... is she really being their mother right now? If she isn't s/b be allowed to influence them with her current state of mind. Would you allow your children to be damaged for life this way?

JMHO,
L.

Hi, IsItWorthIt.

Quote:
=================================
Does anyone think I am doing the right thing here
=================================

I don't.

You protect that which can not protect itself. That is your responsibility to your children.

Secondly, you can NOT FIX YOUR WIFE. You can't really help her. Professionals and proper medication can to a degree, but she is a very long way away from being ready to care for your children without your direct and daily involvement.

Children need both parents, but when that is not possible, they need the sane, responsible parent more than the other parent.

Don't you dare abdicate your responsibility to your children by hiding behind such statements as this one "Children need their mother more so than a father.". That is simply false.

Until your wife is safe enough to be trusted around your children, you MUST protect them from a very real danger.

Quote:
==========================================
Can you give me some insight as to your experiences? Is this really how it’s going to be (just as I have been feeling and fear of especially with our history)?
==========================================

I have direct experience with people very close to me. Unless your wife develops an extreme sense of responsibility and sets up a network of accountability, she is very likely to repeat her actions.

Does she even understand what all she has done? Probably not, so why would you think she is able to properly care for your children when she has such a slight grip on reality?

All the best,
Gimble

Confused for sure…One minute I want to leave her the next I want to help her for the better of our children and her and am almost letting her get away with murder. It’s only been six weeks since the A and I can’t focus nor can I rid of these swapping thoughts. Really confused…Need to pull it together and do the right thing here.

Again, I’m confused. I have not been there for my children and my W has cared for them in every bit of a loving way. She has been a very good mother and was very sane until the day she snapped 6 weeks ago. Thing is, with the company that I own equal share of, I have 3 offices in different cities and I chose to work from home pretty much every day and converse via conferencing to my developers, partners and customers. Therefore, I know she was a good mother as I have been here the whole time. Even though I was not involved doesn’t mean I didn’t pay attention as to what was going on in the house. We both had rough childhoods and traumatic experiences and never influenced the children in a bad way and protected them of the truth of hurtful things. I feel she still can do that and time will tell.

I certainly didn’t want to hide behind the statement I made about children needing a mother rather than a father. Just something I believed in. You are right that they need the sane one first and I will be there and will protect them. But I must control these emotions and irrational thoughts, pull it together and figure out what’s best. I am working on that.

Not that it makes much difference in my decisions but…she has developed an extreme sense of responsibility and accountability. She does understand what she has done and remembers everything except the last day (the day she attempted suicide). But yet, all in all I don’t think she is fully able to properly care for my children and that is why I am here.

I don’t know if I am making any sense here especially with my uncontrollable swinging of thoughts. I can’t believe how tough this really is. I never understood what people go through in times like these and now I can’t believe how hard it is to make sense of anything. Who could have imagined how hard, confused, hurt and irrational this really is? Man, I got to pull it together. Again, I am working on that and trying not to make hasty decisions as stated by previous posts until I can fully understand what I want/need to do. And that itself is confusing as some posts have said completely opposite as others. I know it’s a matter of opinion and it all helps me figure this out. So thanks to all who have shared their thoughts and comments as it is really helping me come to my senses.

WorthIt

Confused for sure…One minute I want to leave her the next I want to help her for the better of our children and her and am almost letting her get away with murder.
Hi Worthit, I know this is hardest time, confusing. Your feelings will change from day to day, but will stabilize over time. That is why it is not advised to make hasty decisions based on your feelings, because they will change drastically. Soon after DDay, one minute I would be angry... the next minute sad... the next minute happy... the next minute crying... the next minute wanting him out... the next minute wanting him home. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I had made the decision though, to not let him alone for a long period of time with DS at first. Then maybe an hr. or 2 if I needed to run errands, go to bible study or something. But even now, I don't trust to leave him with DS for a long period of time. I don't know if you could do that.
As a father you would probably be extremely frustrated after a few days.

But... the main decisions you have to make are for your children and I think you are thinking that through now. I believe your wife has been a good mother. I think most here, including I, are concerned of her stability when she comes home that is what you have to be aware of. Leaving the children alone with her at first should not be advised until you "know" that she is stablized somewhat. And if you get into arguments when she is home, do not leave the house, with the children alone with her.

I know you are struggling with the thought to stay and I think what Gimble said is key...
While it is a good thing to care for your wife through sickness and health, you do not have to care for her through repeated adulteries.
This is true. Prior to her last PA, adultery included you w/ the stripper, so you have some thinking to do about that (I know... totally at your W's request, but nonetheless it was adultery too). If she is understanding that it was "all" wrong, your and hers. You may be able to forgive and move on, maybe not.... but that will be up to you both....you will know the answer to that over time.

Practicing the EN's with her would be good only if you are ready. Finding what her most important ones are. Letting her know your most important needs. Have you discussed EN's to her?

It will be a big transition when she comes home from the hospital.

It will help to keep things as routine as possible... a schedule.

Are your children at home with you now or are they with grandparents?

Hoping for the best,
Lady

We have been through the EN’s questionnaire. She quickly found out the truth…

A schedule is a work in progress and I agree it is important.

Our children are with us at home (WS came home yesterday) and we do not have the grandparents to aid for the next 3 weeks as they are now in Cuba (lucky them, it’s freezing here).

Still finding little lies. Why can’t WS’s or liars period just fess up? This is so frustrating as I am a very honest person.

WorthIt

Hi Worthit,

I know its hard when you have conversation and you know lies are being told. This is the same reason our M doesn't get very far because H has lied, and then I withdraw from listening to anything he has to say. Same cycle, but I don't know what to do, except tell him don't lie to me, I expect honesty.

If she wants your M to progress forward successfully, she has to understand she has to be honest about EVERYTHING, unfortunately it doesn't alway happen that way. But over time hopefully total honesty will come. I'm sure it's one of your top needs.

How is your wife doing?

How are the children?

Lady

Lady,

I understand where you are with lot being able to listen to anything our S’s have to say because of the lies. It’s hard to focus on what’s coming out of their mouth to be true. I guess there is nothing we can do to stop them from lying. I’ve tried everything in the book to get her to stop the lies and told her it would help me to just tell me the truth. She said she is being honest and that some of the lies she has told were not lies but things she overlooked (yeah right).

With that being said, it’s weird that we were able to talk this morning when all along I feel the same as you do and are not able to listen to her. My W is much better today and things this morning was positive. We didn’t really discuss the A rather only our relationship, her problems and my weaknesses over the last year. We’ve gone over how I’ve been feeling about the company. I finally figured one thing out that while I have a very strong character only two people have been able to break me and they are my mother and my primary business partner. I was broken throughout this last year. She didn’t know any of this until now as she was part of my breaking point and weaknesses as she ended our EN’s. She was extremely supportive today and it was almost scary since I was unable to tell her things before the A as she pushed me away and didn’t listen to what I was trying to say. Most of the time she’d make me feel guilty talking about my problems.

The children are happy to be home with their mother out of the hospital. We are staying positive in front of the children and are putting on the happy face while they are around. Not that we really had to put on a happy face today as it was a productive day.

WorthIt

Yes...I have read here and experienced that many WS lie long after they have come home, and stopped PA's. We are still awaiting the "fog" to lift completely! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What are some of the things your W "overlooked?" (which is WS babble...you know. Orchid could teach you a lot on how to handle the babble...so read her postings....she is very skilled.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But it is good thing that you were able to have such a good talk, and figure out where things went wrong. You are looking and evaluating everything effectively. Kind of a wake-up isn't it!
And her being supportive is a good sign.

Now it's time for the solutions....right!

I think the reason why we can break so easy is we become so dependant on what others think and do. If we can seperate the unhealthy from the healthy we can see better, and it helps us make better decisions.

I would much rather work an 9-5 shift than have to endure the cruelty of bad partners in a Co. I think you have found out it might be best to separate your parents from your job, and it might be best to separate you partners from your Co. I don't know how you will do that, but it sounds like it may be in the best interest of your mental health and probably your wifes mental health too!

Would it be a possibility to start your own Co all over again, with different business partners, and no parents involved?

I'm glad the children are happy to be home with mom home too! Hopefully it will be a good new start for all of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

LadySheep, I have many companies that want my product software and subsystem architecture but it is bound by governing laws of the company and partner rights. I wish I could start over with other partners or with the companies that have offered acquisitions of my company, but I cannot by law even though I was a primary founder. And it sucks that they are the bloodsuckers that I have as partners especially since I built this product (4 years in design and almost 2 years in development).

With that being said, I have issues in both my M’s (my personal M and my business M) that needs tending to and decision making. How much can someone take really???


That’s the hard part and I am torn with, again, both my M’s with Co. and personal.

WorthIt

Going from wanting the support to not wanting to give it back. One of my confused states (which I guess would be considered as common) is not wanting to be around her regardless of the support and affection from her. My attitude is quite cold or non existent (kind of how she’s been to me over the last year). Right now, I don’t have any feelings for her and am sort of numb. I don’t want to give the support or affection back. Not to be cruel or to punish her but I just don’t have it in my heart. How can so many boundaries throughout or M be set (not only mine but hers too) just for her to break them all the time every few years. This is why I don’t have the affection or heart in me to return what she is expressing.

I can’t deal with my own sense of reasoning nor can I accept mental illness as an excuse anymore. It was said by another user that we all can “control” or “chose” right from wrong regardless of mental illness but yet she chose to do wrong again and it makes me sick that I must endure this time and time again. I am tired…I am trying to keep things rational but can’t get over the pain endured throughout the years. I’ve seen many posts and how hard others have it and we all are experiencing the pain. But to experience lies and deceit, just like others on MB, (even though this is her first A) time and time again with respect to setting boundaries for them to be broken by lies and deceit. I just can’t gather my thoughts nor can I endure the pain much longer. When does this go away? Who could have thought how hard it was going to be?

WorthIt