Thanks Believer. You're right in that he did come back to bed and held me. I think my patience is wearing a little thin. I am still working on my goal of finding happiness in 2006 regardless of what my H is doing. I am having fun with my kids and my friends. I am trying to get in shape and really making sure that I wear makeup and fix my hair nicely every day. Since my H is not responding as well as I would like to straight forward talks, I am going back to loving distance. How long do you think is a reasonable timeframe for that before I really put more effort into following the Harley method? I think I can do it for a set amount of time. I know that I can't do this indefinately. I am thinking about 3 or 4 mos max.

I went to church this morning with my DD15. My H told me that I better not be thinking that he was coming with us. I just smiled and said that I didn't think that and that I didn't ask him to come with us. I told him that when or if he wants to then he will let me know. I needed to be in church. It is so amazing what God says to you in every sermon, even when the topic doesn't seem to be relevant to your sitch. Today, I got the idea that God is in charge and that All I need is him. It really helped me focus on the real meaning for this life and that love and affection from my H is just icing on the cake. Next week, my DD wants to go again and I will be at work. She is going to ask her dad to please drop her off with her brothers. He can't tell her no so maybe, over time, he might decide to try it again. He used to be so involved with church, even teaching Sunday School. I exposed to our pastor and my H says that he feels judged. Our pastor has spoken with him many times and has assured him over and over that only God has the right to judge. Our pastor has known my H since he was 13 years old. They even share the same birthday. There has always been a special closeness between them so I really hope that my H begins to feel more at ease. I don't know. Maybe when my H forgives himself, he might believe that others can and will forgive also.

So my plan for the next 12 weeks is this...
--lovingly distance from H
--continue plan of happiness in 2006
--prayer in morning and night for renewal of love in our
marriage.
--log on daily for advice and to keep my eye on the prize

Loni

OMG, this is not getting any easier. When I got home from work, H was upstairs watching TV. I asked him how his day was and he replied without smiling "busy". I just smiled at him and went into the bathroom. He decided to take a nap so I finished some chores and went to the store. When I returned, I asked him if would help me unload groceries. He came downstairs and said "no". I stopped and asked him what he said and he repeated "no". I said "are you serious?". He said yes and that I am not to wake him for that. I again asked him if he was serious. He repeated that he was. I admit that I was now really mad. I held it in and turned to the counter to unload the bags that I brought in. He looked over at me and said "That is the attitude that I'm talking about." I was aghast. "what?" "That look right there, that 'I could kill you look'". I was now very upset because I felt that I did't give him any look at all. He said that he had been joking and that I turned mean. I told him that I didn't know if he was joking or not and that is why I asked him if he was serious. Now I was really mad. I told him that I come home with kind words for him and try to show him that I care about him. He barely speaks to me and that when he does, I am supposed to know when he is joking and when he is serious. I started crying. I told him that I didn't give him any kind of look and, in fact, I was very upset and didn't say or do a thing about it other than to finish my job of unloading the groceries.

Our DD15 was now downstairs and hearing all of this and she took it as that her dad was joking around and I couldn't take a joke. Between explaining myself to her and dealing with my H, I was beginning to raise my voice. My H told our DD that it wasn't me and that it was him. He said that he was sorry. But it wasn't like an apology, it was more like a statement to get me to stop the conversation. He went upstairs and got in the shower. I asked him why he does that. He asked what. I said "why do you instantly believe the worst of me and think that I am being a witch?" He said that he was sorry and would I be ok with an apology. I replied, "only if you mean it." He said he did mean it. I still feel that it was a half-a55ed apology. I don't feel that he is sorry at all. I almost told him to leave and take all his stuff with him because I don't ever want to see him again.

Doesn't he have a friggin clue what kind of ****** I am in and level of stress that I am dealing with on a daily basis? I am about sick of dealing with poor WS. Poor guy fell in love with his wife's friend and nobody understands. AWWWWW. How about being the wife who lost her friend, her husband, self-esteem, love, affection, etc... I might have some sympathy points but they sure don't keep me warm at night. How am I going to do this for another 3 months?

I can't say it to him so I will say it here to get it off my chest... My H is a big, selfish, self-involved, priggish, uncaring, [censored]. Where is the man who used to give a damn about me and my feelings?

Well, I tend to have a dry sense of humor, and sometimes people don't know I'm kidding. But don't let him pull your chain.

I would set an exact time frame to re-examine the whole relationship. How about tax day - April 15? Then continue working on making yourself a wonderful life, with or WITHOUT him.

Loni,

I agree with Believer, it might help you to have a specific day to look to. Then you can mentally count down when the going is hard. Once again, I know how you feel. These are the same attitudes WH shows me, and they are so hurtful. But I still think you may be looking at withdrawal as much as anything at this point. Please keep hanging in there -- and remember what you learned at church this week -- God IS in charge, He knows and loves you and is there for you. Please trust Him.

(((((Loni)))))

Dulce

Thanks Believer and Dulce. Sorry for the venting last night. I have a temper that I have learned to control over the years but I still can get so angry. It is sometimes all I can do to just walk away instead of intensify the argument. Esp. if I think I am right.

This morning when he went to work, I asked him if we can please work on the M. He said that we will and I asked him to please read the book and he agreed to read it. (surviving a affair). He seemed kind of remorseful for last night.

We used to joke around with each other a lot. The difference right now is that there hasn't been any light heartedness with him so I can't really know if he is joking or not. He has been soooo serious that the sudden shift to "joking" was completely unexpected. The part that really upset me was the shift to how "hateful" I was. I am not hateful. In fact, I feel that I am being very kind considering the treatment that I have been getting. It's almost funny. Thank God I haven't shown how 'hateful' I could be. There is enough hurt and anger inside me to cause a lot of damage but I choose to not go there. I want my M to turn around and I want to move past this and find peace. God is the way and I am hanging on tight to Him.

Thanks for the hugs
Loni

Well, I am one day closer to my goal. April 15th is the day. He was still cold toward me last night. He did come down and watch tv with us. He joked around with our dd about the american idol contestants.

I told him about a problem I am having with a coworker who has chosen to snub me. I have no idea why. The general attitude about this coworker is that she always has someone she won't speak to. My H asked me what I did to her. I told him that I don't have any idea. He asked if she knows my H. What? Why would that matter? I didn't ask him why, I just answered his question with a "no". He then told me to go back to my old shift of 3pm to 3am so I don't have to work with her. He knows that one of the main reasons I switched shifts was to be at home in the evenings with him and the kids. It was also a major step in helping the affair to not be so easy to carry on.

I asked him if he was still going to read the book. He said sarcastically, that he was and it would all be good then. I said that reading the book was good. We talked for a little bit before going to sleep. I asked him if anything was going on with him because he had seemed so moody. He told me that there is nothing going on with him. He did say that he knows how I would be if there was. He says that I would go from love to hate, just like that. I said that he really doesn't KNOW how I would be. He then told me that I needed to quit getting tough with him. I said that I wasn't being tough just standing up for myself. I asked him if I was treating him well. He seemed to become more quiet and less defensive. He replied that I am treating him very well. I told him "thankyou". Then he told me "sweet dreams" and I replied in kind.

What do I do with this man? He acts like he is a martyr for the cause. Poor guy. He had to give up his true love and stick it out in his marriage.

What do you think about just saying a stock phrase whenever he is rude or critical? Something like "ILY" or "You think so?".

Loni

Loni,

Sorry I've haven't been posting to you for so long.



I'm glad that you have set a "reevaluation" goal for yourself. I wouldn't mention it to him or tell him when it is. He would likely take that as an umtilmatum and not respond favorably. I'm sorry that he is still being cold toward you. I know that it very hard to take and can weaken the firmest resolve. Remain strong, even glaciers melt.



He is still engaged with the family. It may not be what you want / expect but it is good news that he continues to engage.



Why would that matter? We have to remember his mindset. He is still in WS / FWS I / Me mode. He is probably afraid that the coworker has heard about his affair and is judging him through ignoring you. He doesn't want to add this to his conscience <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (how's that for convuluted WS / FWS thinking? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).



[color:"red"] RED FLAG WARNING!!! [/color] That would be a BIG mistake for all the reasons that you just mentioned. I read an altearieor motive here. If you go back to the old shift he won't have to face you or his past actions as much. This would ease his pain somewhat but would significantly delay working through the issues of the M.



I'm glad you ended that on a positive note. Give his venom / sarcasom all the attention it deserves: NONE!



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent Turnaround! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You just keep injecting a little reality into his poor "I am a myrter" fog / mindset. He's just uncomfortable with haveing to face what he has done. Typical WS / FWS squirming <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.



You just keep injecting a little reality into his poor "I am a myrter" fog / mindset. You just keep spoon feeding him some reality and eventually he will have to give up this fantasy (He already knows this but like the typical WS / FWS they will cling to this fantasy to the last possible moment).



If you use a "stock" phase chose it very carefully and make sure to have more than one. WS / FWS will learn to "twist" your phrase pretty quickly after they hear it often enough.


As strange as this may sound I really feel sorry for your WS / FWS. You posted a bit ago that his mantra was "I know who I am". To be perfectly honest he really doesn't know who he is anymore. He shocked himself by choosing to allow himself to be involved in an A. He shocked himself again by how he chose to treat you and his children. He's lost to himself and he's not sure how to get "home".

Would WS / FWS be open to seeing an IC? An IC may be able to give him insite to help him reclaim "himself". I think that it's crucial that he reclaim "himself". If he can do this than your H (not WS / FWS) and you can work on the M.

BTW: How is your Father doing?

Stay Strong!

Hey WTF I love hearing from you. You always seem to be able to see the fog for what it is and help me get centered back on the goal.

My dad is doing better. He is getting used to the apartment and meeting a few people. He is also calling me less for silly errands.

There is no way on earth I am going back to 3pm-3am shift. I have so many friends on this shift that one bad seed doesn't mess with me. Also, I am not giving up on my M and I want all of this extra time to be with my H and our children. One other thing, If I do end up divorced, a day shift is easier to do as a single parent.

Thanks for the pat on the back. It is really hard to remain unfazed with some of the crap that my H comes up with to say to me. I kind of feel sorry for him too. He is not the man that he used to be and I really do believe that he is beating himself up internally. I wouldn't doubt that he is lashing out at me because he can't handle all of the guilt alone...so his wife has to be responsible for some of the problem. At least he acknowledged that I do treat him well. Maybe, he thinks that he deserves to be treated badly for what he did. I am not going to fall into that trap though. He doesn't need any reason to believe the OW is a safer option than home.

My DD brought up the idea of family counseling. I am thinking that it might be a good idea but I am not so sure about the timing with my H. I am going to pray about it and read more.

Gotta go to work,
Loni

Does this sound like the A has resumed? I can't seem to trust my instincts anymore and I am really starting to wonder. I have given him enough rope to hang himself. Should I do some covert snooping?

Loni

I am having good moments and bad moments. My H is sometimes himself but I daily get to hear little insults. It is so hard to hear only bad and not hear anything complimentary at all. Thank God I don't live on compliments because I would be starving to death. It's crazy. I felt more love from him when he was walking out the door.

I am doing a really good 180. Loving distance... whatever you want to call it. Just going about making myself happy and trying to let his junk just roll off my back. I am also praying every morning and night for the return of my "husband".

He called me at work this weekend to tell me that he was going to a union meeting and to the shop for a tool before returning home because he didn't want me to 'freak out'. I just sounded cheerful and said that I wouldn't freak but thanks for letting me know. Steps in the right direction? I dunno. Time will tell.


Loni

Well, he called, so that is good. Don't worry about his remark. Watch his actions.

ACKKKK!!!

I just lost my big post to you!

I'll have to redo it!

Sigh....

Stay Strong!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Horray for DD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent suggestion. As sad as this may sound he may respond better to the suggestion coming from DD than coming from you. Whatever it may take it is important that you get HIM into counseling. He needs help recovering who he was and he needs it soon. I know that you have been offering but he is reluctant to let you help him. An IC could be very benficial for him (and your whole family <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).



We all do. It's part of the process. Hopefully the good moments are outnumbering the bad. The general trend I have been seeing is going forward.



I'm glad you starting to see your H more often. It's too bad about the "little insults". He's still struggling with himself and lashing out ( & guess who's closest to him right now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). Sorry that you have to put up with this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.



It's not crazy at all. At least then you KNEW where you stood. His current "not quite completly committed to recovery" attitude is sending mixed signals.

I don't think that the A has restarted but I am begining to wonder if there isn't some contact going on. I wouldn't blame you if you did a little "sleuthing" just to prove to yourself that nothing is going on.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thats the best thing that you can do! Let him see a Happy / Confident you. Just your attitude will pull him back toward you. It will make you look much more attractive in his eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is our nature to generally avoid "depressed" people. They tend to bring us "down".

WS / FWS are ESPECIALLY adept at avoiding the BS when the BS is depressed. WS / FWS know know that THEY were directly responsible for a lot of it. WS / FWS will avoid this at almost any cost.



That he is trying to be transparent to you is a good sign (to bad he had to add the "freak out" thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) You're right, time will tell what is going on, I think you're going in the right direction.

When I think back to when I started posting to you I seem to remember that your were seeing more of WS / FWS than H. Even with some of your last posts I think that you are seeing more of your H than WS / FWS. I really do see forward motion here. I wish it was faster for your / familys sake but the general trend is encourging.

Stay Strong!

Quote: Don't give up. He's pushing you away to prove to himself that you can't forgive him. He's testing YOU and your commitment to save the marriage. Don't waver. Remember the prize at the end of all this.

I've been feeling this might be the sitch with my FWH, but couldn't really verbalise it. He also is becoming more loving with me, but not sexual. Several months ago, his brother told me that he can't touch me because he knows how bad he screwed up our life. I've been thinking about that comment ever since, especially after reading this thread. Our H's seem to be going through so much of the same things. I'll definately be following this thread! {{{Loni}}}

Thanks for the posts believer,WTF, and sutherlandgirl.

I am doing OK. Spent the day talking with a friend on the phone yesterday. The housework didn't get done buy, whatever. I felt it was more important to take care of friendships. My friend and I also have set up times to go work out together.

Of course, My H noticed that my day off was spent doing nothing. I just smiled and said I was enjoying my day off. He got a little testy with me. I went up and talked with him a little while he was showering. His basic attitude is that he is here to take care of me and the kids but the kids are the ones he worries about. I talked with him about baby steps in the right direction to improve our m. He is OK with the idea. He also told me that he read some of HN/HN. He said that he noticed right away that I didn't meet alot of his needs.

Surprise. I guess later, we can get into all of the ENs that he has ignored for the last 2 years.

gotta go to work,

Loni

Loni,

Haven't heard from you in a few days.

Good to hear that you had some relaxing time off! We all need that once in a while.

As for his being "testy", gently remind him that your "day off" was HIS opportunity to help YOU feel better (you have to love that turnaround stuff <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ).

How's you "gut feeling" lately? Do you still suspect something is going on?

At least he's still taking "baby steps" to work on the R.

Speaking up "baby steps" my littlest took her first ones this week! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let us know how things are going.

Stay Strong!

I don't know. My gut isn't too reliable since it's been wrong too many times. I hope and pray that he isn't in contact with the OW but if he is then that would explain the incredibly slow progress in our R.

I went to our DD's volleyball game on wednesday and the OW was there. She sat in front of me for a short time before moving up a row. I was sitting with her STBXH and some friends. My H was busy with my dad and I was surprised when he showed up to watch. He wouldn't come and sit by me. I think it was because her STBXH is not my H's biggest fan. Maybe....it was because the OW was so close to me. Who knows except my H? Later the night, my H mentioned that it looked like I was talking quite a bit. I didn't really ask for him to expand on that. I figured it was because I was talking with her STBXH. Whatever, I wasn't talking about my H or the OW. I was just hanging out with some friends while our DDs played. Last night, my H asked me what the STBXH was saying. I told him the general topics of conversation. He said that he heard him say something about my H while the STBXH was talking with the OW. I never heard anything. Funny how my H could hear when he was standing up a level from me. What's not funny is how close attention my H was paying to the two of them. I don't want my H anywhere near her and there isn't a blessed thing I can do about it. After volleyball is over, there is softball season. That will last throughout the summer since both girls play in a summer league too. At least they aren't on the same team.

You know, sometimes I just want to say that I am done. Is there even a chance that this WS will ever become my H again? I don't even like this man that he has become. It is pretty hard not to just give in and experience being brokenhearted. I can understand why people don't even try to save the M after an affair. The heartache goes on and on rather than a good long cry, pity party, revenge, and recovery for oneself. It's like I am putting off feeling great again while I wait for this man to get on the ball and start working on our marriage and saving our family from a divorce.

Did I mention that I really hate the OW? I know that the OW is just part of the affair and that my real problem is with my H, but I can't help but remember that she was my friend. I welcomed her into my home and she knew me and how I felt about my H. Will I be able to forgive her when and if my H gets back on board? I am trying but I am nowhere near yet.

Tomorrow is another volleyball tourney. This one is 2 hours away and I don't have any idea if the OW will be there or not. My H says he's going. He inferred that he didn't really care if I went or not. I really don't want to go because I would love to work on some things here at the house, but there is no way that I won't be there especially if she is there.

May God's grace be with me and with you and your family. Esp. since your little one is on the move. Congrats.

Loni

'

I think that I need to ask him to leave. I don't want my M to be over and I don't want my H to go back to the OW but his attitude is hurting me so much. I am really feeling my LB being emptied at an incredible rate of speed.

I am sitting here with tears in my eyes because he treats me like I am the enemy. He show love and affection to the kids, the pets, even strangers get more smiles and conversation than I do. If this is recovery, it really sucks. What am I to do? I can't take this anymore.

Loni

I think the fact that he still sees the OW (even if it is only at sports) is keeping him in the fog. I don't know what you could do about that besides move, or take your kids out of sports.

I don't know either. If I tell him that I don't want him to go then I am LBing big time. If I act like there isn't any problem then he isn't LBd by me but the fog continues. I am becoming more and more angry at the treatment he is giving me. I can't believe that I still love him after all of this. If I was a Psychologist, I would probably say that I am putting all of that anger and rage onto the OW. It makes sense to me.

I feel like it is time for an ultimatum and I know that Ultimatums are generally not good things. Especially when your spouse can hardly stand you as it is.

Loni