Well ~ I'm one of those guilty of admiring an active wayward spouse.

How on earth did I do that?

I praised and thanked him for even the smallest good thing he did.

I bit my critical, perfectionist, controlling, judgemental tongue, that had nagged and berated him for years for never being good enough...and I looked really damn hard for what I could honestly, with integrity, say thank you and admire him for.

He wanted to be admired. That's kind of a misnomer. He really just wanted to be recognized for what he DID bring to our marriage and family. He wanted me to be proud of the things he did do right. He wanted me to acknowledge and praise him for his successes.

So when he showed up and changed the oil on my car, I stood outside with him, and told him how cool it was that he knew how to do it himself, and how much I appreciated his effort.

When he bought my car after the lease was up, so I would not be left without wheels, I said thank you, and expressed my appreciation for his hard work at earning the money necessary to do it.

I admired and respected his long hours at work, and his very fast climb up the corporate ladder.

I did not call him names, I did not call him on the carpet, it was not my job and never will be my job to be his conscience.

It was not my job to enforce consequences. It was my job to set boundaries to protect myself and my children.

If his behavior at any given moment was helpful to me or my children, I recognized it.

Positive reinforcement is far more effective than critical, judgemental criticism.

Lem I understand completely. Over the past 3 weeks i have been finding it hard to keep my mouth shut while my WW would get to go out and have 'fun' and I stayed at home with our D holding down the fort and doing school work. 2 years ago i have an eye opener and made changes for the better, but since i really pushed hard the last 2 semesters and talked with my S about this and her pulling the stunt she did, just makes me mad. Yet they are the ones who get mad when it's exposed and confronted. We are the ones who do all the work to save the marriage and in the beginning it falls on deaf ears.

If we say no more and want a divorce or what ever, then they want a second chance. If they want it, then thats it. The rules really suck in this game. I ended up just LB'ing all over the place over the weekend on my WW. After a good fight on my going to take our D, gave her a good wakeup call. I was we work this out and he goes or I walk, I'm done with the head games. I have better things I could be doing with my time. No Contact wasn't a problem then and opening up everything to me so I can snoop easier wasn't an issue either. Well i still have my other methods as well as a back up. But no problems yet even though were just going on a week now. She has some resentment from my snooping and not trusting her. Uh, shouldn't I have resentment too for her having an EN. I do, but right now it's in check so i can keep a clear head on making this work. if ever this is to happen again, I'm probably not going to bother. I'm not going to keep exposing my D to this, she feels it just as much as I do.

Lost

I must say, I didn't mean to open up a can of worms here.....I was actually just venting a little.

I do appreciate all of the posts and this is still no doubt going to be a a good thread for people to exchange ideas and view points about.

Lem

********POST OF THE DAY*************

DING DING DING...we have a winner <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

i have done the same things as Rose

the things that i took for granted when my H was home....the things that i should have admired all along...i have made it a point to express my admiration about since he left

too little too late i'm sure but it taught me to appreciate the things that i took for granted


I admire him for things i expected him to do but now realize he NEVER had to do anything for me...before or after he left...doing something for ANYONE is a gift...

when he talked about his accomplishments at work while we were still togehter...i didn't tell him that i admired his talent or his dedication...i have told him these things since he left

since i've had to take care of the house, the bills, the cars all by myself...I've realized how much effort he put into these things and i've told him that...but again it's just too late

as strange as this sounds...most of all...i admire him for being willing to give up every material thing that he worked for...to stand up to the critisism of his family and friends...to face the fear of the unknown

all for love


i would do the same...

Eav:

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post above, please clarify this for me and I am sure others. I want to give you a chance to "explain" before I respond.

Lem

.....or for temporary insanity. He also gave up everything good and decent in his life, his wife, his dogs, his peaceful home, for a sleazy sordid affair with a married woman who abandoned her own children so she could rut like a pig with him. There is nothing loving or romantic or admirable about that.

ask me - I didn't mean all BS's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> just some on here are pretty quick at excusing alot of behaviors... I was thinking that's LM's point.

My hats off to you for you courage to tackle the mountains you had to tackle! And hats off to your wife for sticking with it!

Eav:

Not to gang up on you here, but I think you gave my post the most credibility of anyone who responded, and you didn't even realize it.

I actually feel very sad for you. I can only hope that this is "temporary insanity" as Ms Lane spoke, because otherwise, I......well, I will just keep that one to myself. I don't want to seem to harsh and I know these are "tough" times for you. You get my drift I am sure.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

don't get me wrong lemon...i think he's crazy and i don't understand much about how he let this whole situation come about

but when he decided he loved me...his family (especially his mother) didn't approve of me because of my family
(because my parents were divorced and i wasn't catholic so "i didn't believe in the true meaning of marriage" in her eyes-such a crock of crap after all that's happened now)

but my H stood up to all of them

his friends thought we were too "different" but again he stood up to them

he believes in love...

and, as misguided as he is, he thinks he's in love with OW

this time, it was an even harder decision for him to make...there was more to give up and more people to stand up to

but he did it...

so he really does believe he loves this woman

does it make it right? no
does it make it hurt any less? no

but i have most of the material things that we worked for and i would give them all up to be with the person i love

i would stand up to what my family thinks even if thought i was crazy to be with the person i love

maybe i was too selfish or too misguided to realize before this happened how much love means...that it's the most important thing in life

but now i've figured it out...

so i admire the fact that my H gave up so much and was willing to stand up to so much critisism to be with someone he "loves"

to love and be loved that much is something to admire

on the flip side though...i DON'T admire the fact that he compromised all of his values, beliefs, and marriage vows to do this

that i would NOT do...

nor would i ever get involved with someone who was married...

there's nothing to admire about those things

OK, I am glad that you clarified this for us here, but I still would agree with Ms Lane's comment above. If you admire this trait about your cheater husband, why are you still fighgting for him and perhaps getting in the way of true love.

If your WH has done this to you NOW, unfortunately I think his "standing" up for "love" when he chose you many years ago means NOTHING......he has done the same for another woman......it just means he is "pig headed" and doesn't give a flying f*** what people think.

Think about this for a second.

Lem

Lem

eav1967 --
I should have my WW read your post. She has always said, its the little things that matter to her and thats what I would do for her and toss in a big thing here or there. I dont think she ever noticed or just too it for granted. Right now we have a 2nd chance to fix this, only time will tell


My WS wouldnt even bat an eye at it until the first emotional dump I put on her reading all the worksheets to her. then she said she would fill hers out but never brought it up since, left me to read them and when I asked questions I got blown off. she was still in the fog then. I'm hoping to have a good talk tonight with her so i'll bring it back up again and see what happens.


Thats all I ever wanted from my WS. I never expected any gifts, parade or anything. Just a thank you every now and then would have made me happy.


no worries. were all a little bottled up today. i've been trying to talk to my WW for 2 days now and everytime i go to start a conversation, i feel like ive been railroaded from one thing or another. spent last night almost 3 hours trying to sleep because all the stuff going on in my head and got to the point no more and she fell asleep. my fault for not pushing earlier. I'm not good at the talking of my feelings game because i've had them used against me in the past from a prev gf before my W, caused me to close up. i told this to my S, all she said, i was looking for some pity. I'm like, i'm telling you this now so we can work through this and help each other open up. this was right at the time of our battle on saturday.

lost

My wife said something similar. She was ready to walk out on everything and everyone and live in squalor with the OM.

Sorry, but that's just WS babble and I find nothing to admire in that.

maybe i'm just missing what it felt like to have someone love me that much

(but even through that sadness i realize that i'm missing what it felt like to have THE MAN HE USED TO BE love me that much...a good man...a good husband...a person of integrity)

but i will always be glad that i realized what i took for granted while we were together and i will value the lesson that i learned from it

i'm glad that i was able to express my admiration for those things, even if it was after he left, even if it was too late

maybe THAT'S what the harley's are trying to get across...

But I don't think its love to help someone be the absolute worst they can be. If he loved her, he wouldn't engage her in a relationship that required her to sacrifice her principles, her morals and everything decent in her life. That is not love and that is not the act of a loving person. A person who loves wants you to be the BEST you can be, not drag you down into a putrid sewer of a life acting against any and all common decency.

Standing up for putrid indecency that results in the destruction of 2 families is not a virtue. I see that as a very different matter from standing up to his family for wanting to marry a non-Catholic. I just can find no moral equation between a decent, moral relationship between 2 eligible single people and an immoral relationship between 2 married people. Eav, surely you see that his affair is wrong and his stubborness in seeking infidelity with a married woman is nothing to be admired, but condemned.

if it is true love...he's got nothing to worry about...no matter what i do or say, i won't stand in his way



sorry lemon...i just don't agree with that at all

Well, why not? He "stood" up to criticism before for you and that made you admire him, and now, he stood up to even more criticism and judgement and went ahead and did "it"....so sorry Eav, but the fact is.....the very thing that you "think" you are admiring him for is what "ended" your marriage. We can agree to disagree, that is ok.....and I won't try and convince you otherwise, but you should at the very least..."see it this way" for just one second or so...and then, you can ofcourse go back to what you "believe". It is ok with me. I still want the best for you, even if we disagree.

Lem

i can see that you all either don't agree with me or are not understanding what i am trying to say as i am not saying that i think what my H did was right, regardless of the reason

but i'll leave you all to find your own reasons to admire or not admire your WS

i'm taking out of this what i think the harley's meant- appreciate and admire your spouse for the things you took for granted in the past

one last thought


i absolutely agree with this mel

i don't admire WHO he choose to be with or HOW he choose to do it...compromising his values and his vows

there's nothing to admire about that

I'll take a stab at this one...

Here's how I see it...

the majority of people don't even take that EN questionairre till their is some type of affair going on...

so first off the results are way skewed if taken from someone NOT in real recovery really interested in healing.......

for in a messed up in the brain of a WS the EN questionairre can be as much as a weapon to wield against the BS

thats part of my opinion...

another part is that it is my experience that men do have a stastically a high and strong need for admiration...
and it is my opinion that a lot of women miss this little nugget of information sometimes for years while married and find themselves even confused or irritated to learn their husband likes/craves/needs admiration...

this is not a blanket statement so if it doesn't apply don't wear it...

but we typically think of women being the ones needing to HEAR good things about their looks, dress, hair....but their is void in voicing admiration to some of the husbands on their ability to work so hard for the family..the ability to care for the family etc...
it is a skill well learned if not present in some marriages...


Plan A is all about keeping the lines of communication open..

never ever ever is it about prostituting out ones own beliefs and pretending things that are bad and evil are good.......

so admiring unadmirable things in not ever ever part of plan a...

but neither is creating unecessary naggy conflict that leads to powerstruggling...

lets face it ..OP spends time admiring the WS....and the irony is huge when a WS steps away from that and sees how empty the OP's admiration was/is since little a WS does is admirable....

so the need for admiration is a good thing for a BS to know a WS requires...

it can be used during a Plan A as bramblerose noted...when one applies it to even the smallest deeds that are good actions of a WS....

remember that WS surround themselves with people who do NOT judge their actions as the evil acts they are....therefor they get no feedback on their actions other than if it makes you feel good....

so a BS in plan A can and should admire the tiniest deeds of nobleness that do right by the spouse and children to reinforce and reconnect them with someone who offers not judgement but praise for their acts...for their life is only full of empty praise for vile acts...or no praise at all....

I read the other board sometimes and the irony about what a WS says to their OP..the evilness of their acts...and the OP response of silence is amazing...their need to be filled by the WS out weighs their ability to say...hey that sounds like a crappy thing to do to your family.....

but they never speak those words...so the WS is in a void of good feedback....

the emptyness of "do it if it feels good" either becomes their sole motivatin...(women more than men in my opinion)

and admiration of their acts that don't go that route (the evil route) may give them something good to cling to ..

how many WS love to wear the cloak of this has gone to far..too much damage...can't be saved...

BS showing some admiration is a tiny light..of saying there is still good inside of you...even when you yourself don't believe it...or can't see it..or choose to ignore it...

I don't care for WS and BS in newly found out affairs and Plan a going on to actively assist a BS even taking the questionairre....

unless they see it as a tool to maybe assist...but not the end all path to recovery

the results are too skewed by a WS
WS are not in recovery and are not interested in having their needs met by the BS at this time...

BS in their pain give the EN questionairre too much power...

plan a is really decreasing conflict
not handing the WS loaded weapons
NOT powerstruggling insane notions
setting boundaries....

but it is NOT accepting piss poor behavior and certainly not about admiring such behavior...

ARKIE