MywifeIlove - How did you get to the point that you could feel this way? (i.e. that she can't hurt you anymore?)

Maybe I am naive, but this all sounds like a good sign. My situation has not been nearly as bad as yours so far (W had very short EA), but I am worried it could get there.

Based on what's happened with me and W before EA, I need to get to the point where she can't hurt me - I think she may already be there and I need to even the field in order to succeed in R. I am doing Plan A etc. and working hard to meet her EN's, but I tend to LB too much which undoes it. If I can get to where she can't hurt me and I don't really care, then I think it would keep me from LBing and I think Plan A would work. I think her EA is actually over, but I have not met her EN's for a long time, so I've got to do it.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

193, I don't want to speak for MWIL but I feel it is all about attitude and regaining your self respect and building confidence in yourself. Think of it...this is what attracted your spouse to you in the first place so when you can return to that place emotionally, you are a much more attractive individual. No one wants to be around someone who is needy or clingly.

It takes a while to get there, but try doing things that make you feel good about yourself. Develop new relationships and strengthen old ones. Practice what you learned here at MB and you will start to notice the difference. Mywife, has done an excellent job of getting to this place an now his WW is beginning to notice. Just a few months ago she wanted to run away from him now she is willing to spend more time with him.

I'm learning from his situation and have become MUCH stronger of the last month or two. I KNOW I will be fine with or without my WW and that is the attitude necessary for recovery...alone or otherwise.

Keep up the great work mywife and did SH say how long you need to be in this seperated Plan A state. Like Sendme, I worry that your WW is cake eating and this could drag on for a while.

HTW

Hope - Thanks. I actually never thought about this until reading these posts today (maybe stupid, but true). I know what I need to do. Maybe easier said than done, but at least I have an idea. Thanks for your help.

You spoke very well for me, Hope. As for how long to Plan A, it's funny, it's about the "energy" we speak of....Plan A needs to have it's pulse checked every once in a while by the BS. But I believe, that the love will run out on it's own course. If she doesn't have the chance to LB...then I lose no more love for her. And if she is receptive to me meeting a few more of her EN's... and the A is crumbling (by me being the "OM" eewww!!) then I am by definition "drawing" her closer. From there, well, I will turn to this board for more advice, and most definitely call the Harley's again, with WW's participation, hopefully. That is the plan!!

Post deleted by Improving

It can't be forced....and time is part of it...but there are some things and tools, IMO, that a BS can use to "move time a bit quicker". There is a time component to the healing...but it's what you do with that time!!!!

MWIL,

I say you don't TALK about trying to save the marriage or that you want her back...blah, blah, blah. To do so is difficult to address without appearing pushy or needy. I say you act like you did when you first dated her. You took ACTIONS to seduce her without discussing your "feelings". Remember back when you were single...you never asked your wife (or any other woman you dated), hey, bring a bag over to spend the night, or let's work on our relationship tonight. Instead you dated them. Took them out and had FUN. You bought them dinner and drinks...loosened them up a bit and then made your move, without asking permission.

I think you are in a prime position to seduce your wife. Take her out and get her drunk/tipsy...then make a move. NO discussion and NO BIG DEAL if you are unsuccesful the first time. There will be other nights and dates. If she is unreceptive you merely laugh it off as you would have on a second date when you were unsure where the night would lead but still knew you wanted a third date. Whatever you do, you move the seduction AWAY from the marital home and bedroom. Disassociate the seduction from your prior unhealty marriage. Transform it into a NEW relationship. Don't be fake or disingenuous...just be your fun-loving self and let the uncertainty of the evening and your relationship be a turn-on instead of a source of uneasiness.

I have seen this situations before here. Often recovery takes on an initial passion as if the two of you desire to create your own passionate affair. It doesn't work in marriage, unfortunately, and the recovery process will evntually come back and bite hard; but, for a few important weeks, it can be bliss. Don't be discouraged if this doesn't happen for you as many other times the WW takes much longer to reconnect physically with her BH. It's too individualized to predict; but, the comment about you looking good and the jealously factor she's displaying makes me think she may vigorously attempt to re-stake her claim upon YOU and your body. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I am hopefull you are on the verge of this happening for you.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. W,

You have hit the nail on the head!! The email exchanges, the visits, the phone conversations....all are like "brand new". When I interact with her...it's as though we have never been married!!! And I think, to a certain extent, it may rejuvinate some of the old memories of when we first dated!!! I'm not saying that this is the way to recovery, but it serves a few purposes:

1.) I'm getting a pulse on the R between WW and OM. In this case...it's either way reduced...or done (or close to it) Not sure

2.) It completely takes the pressure off WW, when there is no expectations! No blame or guilt...just enjoying each other....a great fog breaker!! IMO, it is the guilt that a WS has within themselves, that is the true "fog" that we speak of.

3.) The ability to demonstrate the changes that all of the BS's are willing to make, who want to save their M. Or better put...to build a new, better M.

I'm not naive enough to think that this is not going to be difficult, if it happens at all....NO EXPECTATIONS!! But this seems to be a plan that is moving her toward me. I will contiue this until I see the progress stop!

BTW, she has emailed me 15 times already this morning and early afternoon!! She called last night, and we chatted for 40 minutes...again about anything and everything, except our M and her R with OM. And, boy, have I learned how to listen!!! And she is willing to talk and talk!!! It's kinda fun!

Update:

Lots going on...but in a nutshell WW and I have been seeing each other more frequently and enjoying each other....laughing, talking, LISTENING!!! Not about us, mind you, but just like when we were first dating.

Now, today, WW had emailed me about just having a lot of "stress". Here is my reply and subsequent exchanges:

Me:
If I can help with the stress thing...I'm always here to listen to you....yes...LISTEN! I know it sounds unbelievable at times, but I want to help you get through all of this!! I wish I could have had the calmness I have now, back in Oct.-Dec. Not that it would have changed anything, but......

Or maybe I'm not the right person to turn to...I wouldn't be offended...just offering an ear....with no judgements or opinions...just an ear, and understanding. I wish for you that I could take all your stress away...I have always wish for that...no matter what the circumstances were. The person I married, certainly doesn't deserve the burden of these circumstances.

WW:
It might have changed something. But we can't take back the past. And you will probably be happy (inside) to know that I am most certainly going to hurt (OM) down the road. I knew with my full mind that I should not have gone there. That does not mean that I would still be at home - even though I know you don't believe that. But I am just a freaking shell now. And the more I relaize that the more I wonder how I am going to deal with this. How many people can I hurt? He is not a bad person, (Me). He has had troubles but he has a good heart. I guess I am the only one that can make these decisions, I have had my hand forced all my life and thats whats gotten me right where I am right now. Maybe not forced, but my decisions have all had someone elses best interest in mind and I am having a bit of a hard time being this "new" person. I don't have much of a sense of tomorrow right now and I don't even have it in me to look there. Today is hard and long enough. I am not feeling one bit sorry for myself just so you know - I just know with all of whats left in me - that this was what I was in for and I am dealing with it.

Me:
Frankly, (WW)...I don't give 2 sheits about (OM)...only you. Nice guy, bad guy, fun guy, saint, drug addict,.....doesn't matter....he is an imaginary object to me...never seen him...don't ever want to. It's about you that I care about...and your happiness...whether it be with him...without him....with someone else...with me. It's the DEEP DOWN love that I have discovered I have for you....not an insane "infatuation" kind of love, that we shared early on...but one that only comes from growing together for 11 years..a more mature love.

Why would you say you "certainly" will hurt him??? You've stated that he treats you like a woman...he is a good guy....and you are obviously attracted to him...so what gives??? I would be indifferent (not happy, nor sad, nor anything) if he gets hurt down the road. I DON'T KNOW HIM!! I HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM!! It's only about you, and your life...one that can provide you with happiness, that's all I hope for....for you.

You are a wonderful woman, (WW). One that deserves someone that will understand you....and cherish you...in the ways you want.

WW:
Its about what I have to give - to anyone. Its about the future and what is important in addition to attraction, etc. Thats what I was not and can not look at, thats all I am saying. I never knew that I NEEDED to be cherished and I am sorry I did not figure it out sooner. I have really screwed up and I just need to figure out where to go next. I wish I could only care about me. Like I said - thats what got me into this mess in the first place. I am just very confused and wish I could turn back the time. There is a reason this happened. I believe that. I just need to find myself and don't really know where to begin.

Me:
There is a reason....but finding that reason, THE ABSOLUTE reason, is not only difficult due to outside influences, self perception, and skewed comparisons...it's also, IMO, almost impossible while all those things are either still present, or still fresh. It may be that over a period of time....a good long time...that the true reasons surface....trying to "guess" right now is futile. And it very well maybe a combination of factors.

I was very happy with you. And you were seemingly happy with me....that's all I have to go on. The nuts and bolts of it are that we didn't have a perfect marriage...but it wasn't the worst either...at least from my point of view.

But that certainly doesn't answer the question completely as to why....and the answer you come up with is the only one that matters, and I understand that, even if my answer is different....mine means nothing.

You know I'm a good man...and I'm sure you've seen that I've become a better man, since all this has happened, and settled down a bit.

It really is too bad that we can't just go back in time, with our understanding, that relationships and marriages need to be SO respected...and very much a priority as we progress through life....it should be the backbone of who we are....and who we become. But even though all the "crap" that took place a few months ago, was damaging to both of us.....I look back on that and try to grow...to see the mistakes...and the efforts we both made.

Honestly, there are still times I long to hold you...touch you....love you in the most cherishing of ways...but I have detached enough so that it is a warm feeling....not a painful one, to think of those images.

You may be trying to find "yourself" in a bunch of different ways and places, but you may want to check around the people you've been with the last 4, 6, and 11 years.....you might find yourself there...and it may be the self you are most happy with. (In reference to DS, DD, and the length of our R)

Comments??? She called me right after my last reply, to tell me "thank-you" for talking to me!

MWIL,

Very good. Sounds like she is mentally done with OM, just not sure how or when she's going to shut him down. Once they are done she'll still have to process the fact that she thought she was done with you "irregardless" of OM (i.e. - WS's always "think" the marriage was over and THEN I met OP).

She's processing this and the fact you are applying NO PRESSURE while at the same time meeting her needs in a Plan A is perfect. You are becoming her best friend and confidant. OM is on his way out and YOU will get to assist her in figuring out just how to do it. I think your plan is working wonderfully.

HOWEVER, you could blow it at any moment. Just a couple of warnings. Maintain your boundaries BEFORE allowing her back into the marital home. She is alone out there and in pain, especially when the kids are with you. If you allow her back to quickly, a lot of that pain (of missing the kids) is going to be relieved and YOU may start inadvertantly pressuring her again because you "think" you are recovering. If she has not decided HERSELF to be done with OM completely and send a No Contact letter in proper MB form then she may feel completely manipulated and go back to secret contact with OM for "closure" or whatever. Especially as she deals with withdrawal.

My warning is just don't jump at the first time she says "I want to come home". Instead, ask questions, find out why and what she intends to do. Make her back up her words with some actions (all you can really do is ask...not "make" her). Ask for a few days to think about things and come her for a plan. Maybe even require that she ask to come home only after 2 or 3 weeks of No Contact. Your defense to not appearing "loving" or "caring" enough to ease her pain (i.e. - she may expect you to JUMP at any opportunity to have her home)...perhaps utilize the children as a blocker by saying "we must be really careful not to affect the children or illicit false expectations, lets take this slow and do it right, a false recovery would be devastating to them". Besides with two separate places you could get a sitter and go over and be alone with each other.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Bump out of the nastYness (your thread ended up in the middle of a bunch of locked threads...just moving it)...lol

Mr. W,

Thank-you!!! After being on this board and reading and reading and reading.....everything in Plan A seems to come naturally now. Not perfect, but every situation is a little different, and WS's aren't all exactly alike.

Last night, WW called me from her home. We talked alot about everything....very nice talk...I LISTENED...she talked and is opening up big time, about how she knows he is someone she shouldn't have gotten involved with...then about 30 minutes into the conversation...I hear her say something to someone...I asked her "Is he there?" She said yes!!! So while he's there, she is holding a nearly 45 minute conversation with me!!!!!!

I'll update later, gotta run!

I'm going to send her her favorite flowers. It might be the time, not sure...but it will be signed "Just because..."

Any thoughts on this??? Any comments??? Don't want to pressure her, but IMO, she may be very receptive to this, at this point, as for 4 months, I've completely backed away from anything "pressuring". Can't seem to think how this would do much harm...considering how "nice" things have been going.

Thanks.

That's cool. Talked to Mrs. W and she said she'll like them even though she may tell OM otherwise. OM won't like them which is good too.

Mrs. W thought the sentiment was ok. She suggested you put just "YOU" or "Incredible YOU" as she understands how selfish a WS is at that time and how OM makes them feel about themselves, if you can tap into that and do the same...awesome. But remind me to delete this if she ever comes here in recovery and you used it...always want that to appear genuine which is why your original thought on what to put may be best.

Mr. W

Mywife, don't you find it difficult to talk about the OM with your WW, especially knowing he is there with her while she is talking to you? I have to give you credit for not letting that get to you...well done.

If she starts hinting about coming back make sure it is for the right reasons as Mr. W suggested. She needs to really want to be back for you and not just the kids.

Your doing great my friend and I really hope this turns out well for you in the end.

Why do you think she has opened up to you where as she couldn't wait to get away from you when she was at home?

Mr. and Mrs. W and Hope, thank you!!!

I am awaiting her response to the flowers....have used your suggestion about "YOU".

Hope, I have accepted the fact that our marriage is over. At least the way it was. I know view WW's and my relationship as brand new....as though we never met before. It seems to fit well with the alien concept, that her interpretation of "us" before the A, is completely warped. I have to embrace that concept as well, to a certain extent.

It makes it easier to just think of this as a brand new relationship. Maybe I've detached just enough to be in this "middle state" of not being hurt but her continuing actions...but still loving her in the deepest sense. Knowing I'm going to be just fine with or without her is a super bonus. I was getting quite a chuckle knowing he was there....and I was meeting her EN's for 45 minutes!!! Would have like to have heard the conversation between WW and OM after I hung up!!!!!!!

She just emailed me....wants to come over Easter morning (I have the kids) and said "if you don't mind". I'm going to invite her over for "Easter breakfast",....I know her favorite breakfast meal...and I can cook it perfect!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll keep updating!! This is kinda fun!!!
George

Afternoon update:

Here are the email exchanges just prior to the delivery of the flowers and after:

WW:
Well, I got thinking about it - you DO have the kids easter morning. I was thinking that I could come over really early - if you don't mind. I could bring my stuff for them and we could give it all together??? I was going to pick up some jammies for both of them-just some basket fillers. There is grass and baskets in the basement. Maybe I will color eggs with them Thursday? I don't know. I was thinking about inviting Kris out Saturday night to watch a movie and have dinner or something. She mentioned me coming over there - but I am sick of running to the damn city all the time!!!

Me:
Not a problem!! We'll talk more about it later.

WW:
ok enjoy your lunch. Get some sun. You are looking pretty pale. (This is "fun" sarcasm, as I am already pretty tan...I'm a sun worshiper!)

Me:
Only around a "teeny weenie" part of my private area!! Almost "thong like" tan line!!! Pretty good looking though, I might add!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WW:
what about your butt?? You been outside naked you weirdo?

Me:
I'm not tellin'!!! Wouldn't want you sneeking around in the back woods on a sunny day, for a chance to see...........ah.....never mind! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Flowers arrive. Her favorites...small roses.

WW:
They are beautiful. Thank you.

Me:
For what?????

WW:
The flowers?

Me:
Oh yeah........I found them laying in the road....didn't know what else to do with them....they are kinda nice, aren't they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WW:
They are so pretty, little tiny roses, yellow pink and red. Not a bad find!!!

Me:
Oh....I thought they were dandilions.

WW:
nope.

Me:
BTW....you're welcome.

WW proceeds to call me 10 minutes later, just "talk" for a minute or two...nothing in particular, and she never brought up the roses, which is fine by me...I truly wanted her to have them whether she "wanted them" or not. Then she emails me that she just won $750,000 on the "Deal or No Deal online game!!! I asked her if she would help pay the mortgage...her reply was "if it was real money I would pay off your mortgage and hire you a maid!!!"

It's so easy to see a W and a WW still in the same body...but I'm slowly pulling the W out with true love, no pressure and a set of boundaries in place...at this point those boundries are fairly easy for her to adhear to, but I know that those boundries will need to be more strict as I draw W out of the fog. It is happening!! I can see it.

From the first day I posted in Oct...the first word of advice was PATIENCE! Boy was that ever clarvoiant!

Update:

Well, not much has been happening. Haven't spent as much time with WW, been really busy. Not to mention, last Sunday I was BBQ-ing and had had a few beers, just relaxing, before WW and kids came over. She stayed for a bit and we talked and laughed about things. Then she had to get going...and she looked at me in a way that seemed more "wife like" than I've seen in a long time. We shared a hug, like we have for the last month and a half....but then I gently lifted her chin up with a curled index finger...looked into her eyes...and went to kiss her....

OOPPS!! She put her hand gently on my chest, and slightly pulled away...slightly shocked...because I had not made any moves on her since D-Day. (Oh maybe 1, but that was when she was "faking" some receptiveness)

I quickly said, "I can't help it if I still like you." She pulled me back to her to hug me. I hugged back, and then she rubbed my arm. The whole time she said nothing!!

So this week I've backed off a bit, but she comes right back with instigating more emails, calls, etc.

I get the sense that things between her and OM may have smoothed out a bit, for now!

I'm doing well, and so are the kids.

MIL,

This is a response I had to Mr. Wondering comments on your situation in another thread. I just wanted you to see it too.


I totally disagree with this assessment of MIL’s situation. I don’t think MIL WW’s A with OM will end because of MIL’s Plan A. I think MIL’s WW is a perfect example of cake eating, in my opinion. Her sexual needs and some others get met by OM, while MIL is meeting some other needs of hers. Until she is forced to face what life will be like without MIL and OM is forced to meet all her needs, there is no way she will go back to MIL.

Nonetheless, I still think that MIL should remain in Plan A. Why, then, might you ask? Well, as long as MIL is not under the illusion –which he seems to be—that Plan A will bring back his wife, he should continue Plan A for a reasonable time commensurate with how full or empty his love bank for his WW is. Plan A, I think is for improvement of himself–which he has been doing a great job of—and to lay the groundwork for the time he decides to nuke his WW with Plan B. Plan B will be more shocking and effective with a great Plan A, as he has been doing. Thus, I disagree that MIL’s Plan A will cause the ending of his WW’s A with OM.

I agree totally, UVA! Steve H. told me to remain in (or go back, because I was 2 weeks into Plan B) Plan A for these 3 reasons: 1. My energy for reconciliation and W is still fairly high. 2. There is a very strong possibility that OM "hooked" WW on Oxycontin. By still being around, I can monitor more closely the actions of WW, while also being able to see my children quite a bit more than if I plan B. 3. My continued presence is causing OM to LB, and to some extent is putting pressure on the affair!! (Yes, I've become the OM (YUCK!!)

I treat this as if my wife has died. (For all intents and purposes she did) And now am "courting" a new woman. With that mindset...I don't have much pain interacting with her!! In a way...I'm the one cake-eating!!! I get my EN's of conversation, still doing family stuff, and recreational activities with family, but I have free time to get on with my personal life/healing!!! I have twisted this around to be as positive as I can....and it works so well!!