Ah but isn't it easier to prevent something before it even begins? Look the reason being is that if you know about the genetic disorder then you know what symptoms you have to look for. If we go by what you are suggesting waiting for over obvious symptoms then what ever genetic disease that person has could already cause harm that can't be repaired. Again it is like affairs. For example some patients that have heart attacks only suffer from the symptom of a headache. Doesn't everyone have a headache?

There is one genetic disorder, can't remember its name off the top of my head, but if both parents have the genetic defect, the child once born will most likely start to have it lungs fill up with liquid. Not every child born that have parents with this defect suffer this but point is this, lets say the child gets older and wants to start a family doesn't know they have the defect and their partner doesn't know of the defect and they have a child and the child is born and the lungs start to fill up. Well if the patient and doctor know this before hand they can have the proper staff and equipment right next to them ready to go so they can save the child and not let it be a surprise to both the parents and the doctor.

Look there are other reasons but I don't want to get into them.

My sister would have no more reason in the world to suspect than I would to suspect I had a different father. But then I have no way of knowing for sure. And like I said earlier, I have no proof myself, just circumstantial evidence.

Noliving, no, I still don't get the need to know because of genetics. I think it is a huge stretch and a rationalization. First off, folks who care about their health are going to be careful anyway, regardless of genetics. And folks who don't, won't care anyway. It still comes down to the same thing, one is diagnosed by their OWN symptoms, not by the diseases of other family members. We have excellent medical science in this country with the ability to diagnose diseases that works very effectively regardless of genetic information. There are lots and lots of folks who do not know their "genetics" and they don't die from it.

***I don't understand this rationalization. What difference does it make if a disease is genetic or not?***

Melody, you may not know that any number of OC find out about their true parentage the hard way when they agree to donate blood or donate an organ -- or need to receive the same -- from someone they *thought* was a parent or *thought* was a sibling.

A simple blood test can show that a person cannot possibly be the parent or sibling of another.

The more in-depth genetic tests remove all trace of doubt.

The point is that you can NEVER say "She'll never find out." There was a case in our city recently where a teenager was in a car accident and needed a blood transfusion. His father offered to donate the blood, but the bood-type test showed there was no way the man could have been the boy's biological father. Can you imagine having to find out in such a way? And as medical science grows ever more sophisticated, the chances of such a thing occuring increase every day.

People used to think they could keep secrets like this, and often did. That is simply not true in the 21st century. Melody, I can well imagine your horror at having to face this, but doesn't your sister deserve the respect of getting the truth from people who care about her instead of taking the chance of having the truth forced on her in the worst possible way?
Mulan

Genetics play a huge role in a persons life. Genetics will help a doctor what diet is needed for that person, what to look for when it comes to ticking time bombs such as tumors. Tumors are very deadly when you start to suffer the symptoms.

Yes one is diagnosed by their own symptoms but the disease of other family memebers is what is causing those symptoms. As such you can begin treating the disease before you even have to suffer the symptoms.


Look there are other issues here that I don't want to get into but I will mention a couple. Who knows you the best? You do. If you are given information that you didn't know about yourself then you start to question what they also know that you don't know and you want to find out because that information is information about who you are and as a result you have a right to information that is about who you are. That person will also start to feel humilated by those people, the longer it is kept secret the more damage it does and the more humilated that person feels. That person also starts to wonder if they are even in control of their lives anymore, they start to wonder if those people are taking him/her for a ride and/or determing their own lives. By telling them the truth you give back control to the oc child to control their lives again.

Not only that but the child starts to feel cheated by those that continue to try and protect them and they start disrespected and judged. Why judged? Because they feel those people are judging or making decisions for them on what information they should know about themselves. Think about it, that is your information that is about your life. Who the ****** has the right to deny you information that is about your life?

There are much more things I could get into.

Look nick just write a letter to steve harley for his advice.

Mulan, if my sister needed a blood transfusion, she would likely get it from the huge blood supply that exists in every city just like every one else does. How many people actually die of not knowing their family's genetics? How many deaths per year? How many deaths occur in people who DO KNOW? Historically, the genetics of adopted children was not known, and I am not aware that facet of adoption has caused deaths in this highly evolved culture of medical science.

Personally, I think the need-to-know-due-to-"genetics" argument hurts the credibility of the need to know crowd. It is a weak argument at best, especially with no facts to back it up. There is a much better argument to be made on the moral aspects, in my opinion.

Look melody that genetic argument was just one thing.

Why are you just basing it upon life and death? What about the quality of life? How about mental illnesses? Melody all you are doing is just disrespecting that person by hiding the truth from them.

Your agrument with blood transfusion really actually supports the genetics because genetics also determine what type of blood disorders you will have and what type of blood you will have. So actually it helps to know because you can prevent or weaken the affect of the blood disorder. Knowing improves the quality of life. Whats the point of having vaccinees then melody? Why do we need to know when to give out vaccines to diseases that are not life threatening?

And perhaps you are right, noliving, but I am not convinced. I think when the parentage is CERTAIN one could go either way. But when one really does not know they would be irresponsible to shake one's life up with an unsubstantiated rumor or perhaps lies.

This is information that will have massive, damaging effects on one's life and shouldn't be treated in a cookie cutter or cavalier fashion in order to make oneself feel self righteous. I sincerely hope that nickatnight is responsible and deliberate with this information, for this boy's sake.

This I agree with, don't tell based upon a rumor lies. Something the goverment is very good at.


If the information is true it should be handle with the care and respect it deserves.

Rationalizations are irrelevant.

One could argue that information about an affair should be kept from the spouse because it could result in damage to the family...divorce, shared custody, etc. Would anyone here be willing to support this argument?

The ethics of the situation demand that the ex-H be told the truth.

ANY man has the RIGHT to know the true parentage of the children he has been asked to raise.

I my mind, this kind of betrayal is far greater than that of adultery.

If we believe that the betrayed spouse has a right to know that they have been betrayed, then we should certainly believe that a man has the right to know that he has been a cuckold.

I'm sorry ladies...if you believe the ex shouldn't know, I think you are way off base...

MEN have the right to know if they are the father of children they are raising. Then, they can CHOOSE their destiny at that point. But it is WRONG to deceive them into believing a child is theirs.

It doesn't matter if nick knows if this is true or not. His wife told him this. The ex-H deserves to have this information for himself. Others have no right to make this decision for him.

It is no different than deceiving a spouse about adultery.

I am especially surprised at you, Mel. You have always been a staunch advocate for truth, honesty, and openess. What gives?


Low

I **might** an OC and my mom told me when I was 16. I didn't tell my siblings, but had a great counsellor at my high school. Last year my 23-yo brother needed a kidney transplant because he was in kidney failure. My mom had to give a family history and only then did my brother find out that I might not be his full-sister. (I was ruled out as a donor because my blood type is different.)

It has not changed our relationship, but I'm certain that if I had only found out last year, it would have changed the relationship I have with my mom.

What a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive.

My opinion? Suggest to the son and dad that W was going through so stuff when she got pregnant and maybe they should have a test done. If W is BPD, it shouldn't be too hard to accept that there might be a problem, and get the son some counselling right away.

Who here stands for the right of the child...

to EVEN entertain the idea of bringing this chaos into this CHILDS life at THIS POINT>..

mother is in and out of hospitals in huge emotional conflict and crisis...

STEP dad...has one foot in the door and one foot out door...

so lets just pile more CRAP on to this FIFTEEN year old right in the middle of huge formative years....stuff that he can not change...
has no control over...
and will rock a foundation that is already a pile of crap based on the grownups he has....

so lets drag a virtual STRANGER in to this.............
and say....

son meet your daddy
daddy meet your son...

Loworbit we can not and should not apply the same emotional developemental stages of children to grownups ...

even when the most horrific information is offered to adults..ie adultery...etc..they have the POWER to choose different paths...

from logistics of living arrangements.....
to whether to work and deal with WS..

children have NONE of these options...they will be at the whims of these grownups..

say step dad gets all pissed off and withdrawals whatever support he has given this boy...

is that fair to the boy...

what if he sues the mother for back child support...causing huge financial risk to the family unit...

what if he NEVER speaks to this boy again..

IS THAT FAIR?????????????/

and while life is NOT fair in most realms...this self imposed vindication is ill timed...done at a time it could cause the most damage...

a young man in his most important formative years...


loworbit says...
But it is WRONG to deceive them into believing a child is theirs.

It is wrong low...wrong of the mother...but to visit the fall out on to the son is more wrong in my opinion...at this time...
she's not even capable of caring for him without this inforamation...
she won't be able to help process...or even understand...cause she is so lost in her own turmoil..

so kid loses dad

and mom can't do crap about helping him deal...

and his DAD has been and has acted as dad his whole life....
and to come between that relationship is wrong....

there is no need in my opinion at this time to even entertain such a thought...

children are not resistant....they are absorbant...grossly affected by the adults and the relationships they have...

this is russian roullete with a CHILDS life in my opinion..
so that bunch of grownup can sit around and say we did the right thing....

he loves his son
he is his dad....
no matter where the sperm came from...
who would want to get in between that and cause that harm...

we must not apply coping and developemental skills of grownups to our children..

it is way way way too selfish and unfair...

Seems to me that ALL these children are at great risk here...and I stand by my thought that nick stays in this marriage...till all the children are well on their own..other wise they are dammed to a life of chaos..revovlving other men..more children at risk etc...

lets save and protect the kids we got...get them to ADULT hood ...and then worry about whose the daddy....

otherwise the destruction to this boy in such unstableness could be straw on the camels back...

ARK

ark...

You have the question ALL wrong...

This is not a question of what's best for the child at all.

I do believe the TRUTH will be best for this kid.

It's a fundamental question about personal sovereignty...



He is NOT his "dad". Where the sperm comes from is vitally important. He never given the CHOICE. He was TRICKED. The man may have a wonderful "father-son" relationship, but the fact remains...he may not be his father.

A man was made to raise a child that was not his through deception. His parentage was a fraud.

I simply believe that the ex-H has the right to make this decision himself.

Now...let me ask you this...

What if my wife had never found out about my A? What if I went back to my family and was a wonderful father?

Do you believe that telling my wife today would be warranted? In doing so, you run the risk of destroying my children's lives as well. Should my wife know?

Additionally, let's say that I sired a child with the OW. Should my wife ever know about that, since it can put the stability of the primary home at risk?

BTW, it is important to me and, I believe, most men that they think of their children as their own "flesh and blood". Where that is not the case, it is critical that the man be given the CHOICE to adopt the child as their own.

You are denying a human being the information he needs to make important decisions about his life.

The truth is more important. Lies and deception destroy.

The damage to these children was done when the decisions by their mother was made. Shielding them from the truth does them no favors.

Low

Let's examine the situation, just the facts. Have actual paternity tests been done, or is nickatnight just going on information that his wife gave him?

If he is considering upending people's lives (and a child's life at that) over the word of his wife then there is no dilemma, IMO. His wife is a very messed-up individual, and no way should he accept her statements as truth. There is no "honesty" without the right tests.

Look, I was raised by a man who is not my biological father. I always knew. But when I was 16, my mother arranged for me to meet my biological father for the first time. She sprung it on me with no warning, and I did not appreciate it one bit. Imagine the trauma facing this boy, and then tell me about "honesty".

If the boy is NOT his father's biological child, I think he should be told the truth, by both his mother and his father, in the proper setting.

Low Orbit, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be solely concerned about the POSSIBLE betrayal of the father. There are greater issues at stake here. A child's welfare is much more important.

Edited to add the word "not" to the 4th paragraph. PK

As you requested...correction

All parties knowing the TRUTH is the MOST important issue.

Knowing the TRUTH is in EVERYONE'S best interest, including the child.

No one has adressed my question about a long dead affair's impact on my children. Should the wife be told or not?

I am not without compassion for the child. But continued deception is NOT the solution.

Even if there is possibility that the child is not his, the man needs to have that info so HE can decide how HE wants to dispose of it.

You seem to be arguing that it's ok to perpetuate this fraud to protect the child...

Think about that.

Low

I think it's worth adding that I think it's offensive that a woman believes she has the right to decide if a man should know if he is the father of a child he's been asked to raise.

I don't think a woman could ever understand this issue because no woman can EVER physically experience it...you ALWAYS know that your children are yours.

So, don't play the "sperm donor" card so non-chalantly. And don't pretend you know what this man would consider more important. You don't.

Personally, I believe my wife having another man's child would've been an instant dealbreaker for me. Finding out that one of my children wasn't mine would be important to me. I have the RIGHT to know. THEN I can decide if I want to protect the child I have raised. I can decide how and when to tell them. No man should be denied this. It is abhorrent to do so.

LO, I edited my post, so perhaps my meaning was not clear.

I certainly think that all parties have the right to the truth. My concern here is that the truth, which can be determined only by a paternity test, is still not out there. So there is no information to give at this point, other than that which could be potentially harmful to a child of 15.

You state that if you found yourself in a similar situation, you would want to be able to "decide if I want to protect the child I have raised". It would not be that simple. I will not comment on your statement except to say that most courts would determine that your financial obligation to the child would have to continue, based on past actions of 15 years. How you would react to your wife *would* be your decision.

As I said, I was raised and adopted by my father, although he knew I was the child of another man, from whom my mother had been divorced when I was an infant. I was never treated differently than my sister, my father's natural child. Clearly, I have been fortunate.

I disagree. There is the POTENTIAL that the child is not his. The man should be made aware so he can take measures to verify if he so chooses. The child is not harmed at all by these actions.



Again, I disagree. I could choose to tell the child or not. I would then have all the information I needed to make decisions for myself to the extent the law allowed.

Additionally, I may have the option of pursuing monetary restitution from the bio dad via civil suit should I so desire.

This is my very point. No one has the right to deny me information that affects my life to this critical degree. I believe I WOULD choose to protect my daughter and tell her in an appropriate way...as you suggest. But it's MY RIGHT to decide this...no one else's.



The point is that HE KNEW. He made the choice. Why would anyone think it would be right to deny another man the right to make that same choice for himself?

Low

I'm sorry ladies...if you believe the ex shouldn't know, I think you are way off base...

MEN have the right to know if they are the father of children they are raising. Then, they can CHOOSE their destiny at that point. But it is WRONG to deceive them into believing a child is theirs.

It doesn't matter if nick knows if this is true or not. His wife told him this. The ex-H deserves to have this information for himself. Others have no right to make this decision for him.





Nick and Loworbit,
I fully agree with this. That man should know the truth.

It was different in my sitch. My non-bio dad knew he was raising me, another mans child. (He did not go into doing it decieved) The info was only withheld from me for my protection, which I can understand. They wanted me to believe they were both fully my parents. This man does not know it.

Now the exposure has to be done very carefully.

Nick, I think you should tell the EXH of your news. Tell him this is what you have been told, and you cannot keep this secret. This man should be advised not to say a word to EXW or anyone, and get blood test done. The child should not be told until all tests are done. The physicians can work with the EXH to get the child in for blood work with out giving him a reason as to why he is getting it.

Let all the bloodwork/DNA be done, before deciding to tell the boy. The truth has to be known.

If bloodwork comes out that this child really is EXH, fine.
The child is safe and everything is okay.

If not... this is the EXW problem to deal with for her secrets and lies.
The EXH, I'm sure would not desert the child, he would be relieved to know the truth though.

After everything is done, they will then have to decide to tell the child or not.


Lady