I got a call from one of STBX's old friends/roommates today. During our conversation, he said, "I didn't think he'd be dumb enough to do it again." It turns out STBX cheated on me while we were engaged. The friend said he thought I knew, that STBX had told him he would tell me. The friend said STBX told him he loved me and wanted to marry me, but just had a 'slip up.'

Why do people keep giving me all these new tidbits of information now? It would have been nice to know all the facts before marrying STBX. Cheating while engaged would have been a huge red flag to me. Note to witnesses of cheating: Please tell the betrayed!!!

This makes me wonder what, if anything, about our marriage was actually real. How many times did he cheat? And for how long? How stupid was I not to figure it out? How stupid was I to think we were happy?

Actually, I do think STBX probably did love me, as much as he is capable of loving anyone. He really is an emotionally closed off person, from an emotionally closed off family, with cheaters in the family. We did have a lot of good years, though, or so I thought.

Do I regret marrying him? No. I have two wonderful children I wouldn't have had without being married to him. Even knowing what I know now, I would go through it all again to have them. Besides, I have always believed a person's experiences, and how they react to them, make a person who they are. God must have another plan for me. Apparently, He must have had some lessons in mind for me to learn, and I have learned a lot.

Pollyanna me, I still believe most people are basically good. I refuse to give up that part of myself. But...in the future, if a man cheats on me, there will be no Plan A or Plan B. There will only be Plan K for "kick," as in "kick his sorry butt out the door." I will never allow myself to be treated this way again.

I wonder why STBX stayed in our marriage for almost 16 years? Why didn't he leave before, since he must have cheated before? I'll probably never know.

Boy, he's even worse than I thought. I'm glad you are finally in a good place, far above his nasty drama.

{{{Pebbles}}}

I wonder about this myself. It has been such a long time since my STBX showed any sexual interest in me at all, and he's always been so 'popular' with women - just as friends, you understand! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I'm also wondering how I could ever have thought we were happy together. I was stupid and blind. A SAHM, I gave myself up completely to him and my children, always trusting that he would always come home to me.

I'm so glad you are feeling better about your sitch, Pebbles. As the holidays approach, I am feeling bluer than ever. Hope you have a good one.

Alph.

Pebbles, I think your attitude about continuing to be positive is good. There's v little to be gained from thinking that everyone and everything ard us wld be bad. That's a miserable way to live.

Why he stayed? Perhaps he gained alot from marriage, even though he wasn't entirely truthful to himself.

I too, wonder why my WH wld stay for 10 yrs if he claimed to have been miserable for the last 5. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

~A <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, Neak, Alph, and Ashley, for your replies. The mind of the WS is a labyrinth of dark, scary twists and turns, yes? I'm probably better off not understanding how STBX's mind is working.

Case in point:

This is STBX's weekend to have the kids. He usually picks them up at 6 p.m. on Friday. DD had a friend come over after school who couldn't go home until late. STBX agreed to pick up the kids at 8:00. By 8:30, still no STBX. Neither child wanted to call him to see if he was on his way. By 8:45, we were still waiting, still no phone call and no STBX. I finally called him on his cell at almost 9:00 and asked, "Were you still planning to pick up the kids tonight?" His reply was he would pick them up as soon as he could, he was busy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He finally picked them up just after 9:15. On the way out the door, DD huffed and said, "It's practically the middle of the night! Why didn't he just come get us in the morning?? Duh!!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

DS came home Saturday morning to work on a school project with a friend (neither child has friends over to STBX's apartment). The friend had to cancel at the last minute. DS and I took the dogs for a long walk and played on his laptop for a while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

During our walk, DS told me STBX was worried about me getting the Christmas things down from the rafters in the garage. He told DS to tell me that I should not try to do it alone because the things are heavy and I might get hurt (he's concerned about me being hurt - now - how sweet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ). STBX wants to come over and help me put the Christmas lights up on the house and help me put up the Christmas tree. STBX has not been allowed in the house since May, but he wants to help decorate for Christmas?? Huh???

I didn't react in front of DS. I just mumbled, "Hmmmm." DS went on to tell me he told STBX I had lots of help and wouldn't need him to come over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Actually, I really could use the help, but I'll ask a neighbor, my dad, or someone else, anyone but STBX.

{{{Alph}}} I'm not especially looking forward to Christmas this year, either - and it's usually my favorite time of year. I won't have the kids from noon on Christmas Day until the evening of Jan. 2, and I won't have work to distract me - it's Christmas break from school. Also, most of our Christmas ornaments are handmade by the kids and/or have special sentimental meaning. I always get teary when I get out the ornaments the kids made when they were little (because I'm sappy that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ), but I'm not looking forward to seeing the gift-from-STBX ornaments or the ornaments we chose together.

I have always tried to focus on the meaning of Christmas, not the gifts, which is especially good this year - because I can't afford much in the way of gifts. The kids will understand. We will still choose an Angel Tree child or two to provide gifts for, because there are a lot of people much worse off than we are. We will still go to church on Christmas Eve and sing as loudly as we can, LOL! We will have a joyful Christmas!!

Another loooong post. Sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Off to find more decorations for my classroom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add: And now, what the heck do I need to do to get this guy to divorce me???? All he has to do is fill out and sign a few final papers!!

Okay, I survived getting down some of the sentimental Christmas things. While I was getting a little misty-eyed, I realized something - it will get easier from here on out! This is the first Christmas without STBX, but all the other holidays and special occasions from the rest of the year have passed and will never be "firsts" without him again (except New Year's, and I will make it through that, too).

I realized I just might be an MB success story!! Some may not think so, because my marriage was not recovered, but I do, because I am okay and I've learned so much that can help me in the future. Go, me!!

I now see the divorce as me being given a second chance to be happy. And I'm pretty happy right now, with occasional setbacks, even if I'm a little lonely at times. I don't plan on being alone forever, though, LOL.

So, really, what can I do to get STBX to fill out and sign his part of the final divorce paperwork? There is really not much to divide, he's blown through what little we had in the way of assets. If it were not for the kids, I'd almost be willing to let him have everything, including the house, just so the divorce could be over and done with.

Now that I'm ready to be free of him (and have been for a while), he won't participate in the divorce he says he wants. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He doesn't want me (and I don't want him), but he won't go away and stop bothering me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Why???

((pebbles)))
You are a success story...stupid bam bam. He really blew it this time! Can you proceed w/D without signature? Is it just uncontested? I don't know about that kind of stuff...do you have a court date?

He is trying to get back in your good graces. GOOD LUCK!

Does the WS really want the D? Yea, but the H in him is still alive and kicking so the 'carrie syndrome' rages on inside the soul of the WS/H. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

What does that mean 4 u? Well the Ws will push the D but it takes both the WS and H to sign the paperwork and do the D walk. Seems like one leg is walking and the other is planted, making him look reeeall funny. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So when u r ready t/d your D walk (s/b at your time/term and circumstances, then the Ws will fight it. RE: Because it's not the D, it's a control issue. Also your H maybe fighting too but for different reasons. Therein lies the turmoil. When the BS sees this it is often hard to dicipher which character is showing. Sometimes just asking may help.... can't hurt. Something like:

BS: Ok, got the D paperwork. This is what U wanted so here's the part U need t/d. Do I have to tell you or have you already been 'paper trained'?

WS: Who says I want the D?

BS: The wacko side of your brain? I think it was the WS in you. Don't u remember?

WS: No. Oh yea but I don't want it like this.

BS: Listen cooked peas taste yucky no matter whether you use a spoon or a fork to put them in your mouth but you stil have to eat them. The D is like cooked peas.... I don't like it but you wanted it so here it is, now chew.

WS: I hate cooked peas.

BS: From what I heard that's all you and OW have now, cooked peas. I hear her speciality is the 'strained kind'. LOL!! Now go eat your peas and finish the paperwork. I got other things t/d.

WS: Don't you want me back?

BS: With strained peas on your face? No. When you clean up your life and wipe up your face...... well, I may give it some thought. Right now I have presents and a gourmet meal to prepare, minus any 'cooked peas'. Gotta go. Bye.

WS: ummhhhh...uhuh...duh...... Bleech!!!! Burp. Blech!!! Phew, strained peas. My breath does smell bad.


LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hi, confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />It should be uncontested. California is a community property state, so we will each get half, but he doesn't think that's fair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> We don't have a court date yet. I was hoping this part could be resolved without going to court, since it should be so cut and dried. I was hoping to avoid more attorney's fees. If he doesn't fill out the papers by Christmas, I'll have ask my lawyer to get a court date (should be about two months). Everything else is done, except for the final division of assets and debts (for us, about six pages or less of paperwork plus a signature).

One minute he tries to "help" me, the next he tries to intimidate me. He asked me, "Why can't you just be like everyone else who gets divorced?" Meaning I should give in to everything he wants, keep my mouth shut, and be friends (with benefits) with him. I thought to myself, "I guess I'm just special." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Orchid, a funny WS translation, as always. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Paper-trained, LOL. The last time I asked him if he'd filled out his papers, he said, "I'm not coming back." I told him that was fine with me. Then he said, "I know you still want me to come back." I asked him what gave him that impression. He said, "You gave me that letter," referring to my Plan B letter back in May. I told him, yet again, that I meant it at the time, but I've since changed my mind - he has convinced me he is right and a divorce is the best thing to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I have no intention of spending even another day of my life with a multiple cheater who has treated his children and the wife who was faithful to him so cruelly. The kids and I deserve better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm in the same position. After paying out over $2,000. for settlement agreements, mediation, etc., we are still not divorced. WH absolutely refuses to do his part.

He has been living with OW for 3 years now, and I am done. But the D is dragging. We live in California too. WH has gone through our money, his retirement bonus, his retirement savings. But he doesn't want to give me ANYTHING.

His idea of a fair "settlement" is for me to move in with my boys, and he and the OW move into where I live now.

So it seems like this is going on and on. I have finally filed for divorce, but WH keeps postponing the court date.

At the risk of sounding like a devil's advocate, I think we need to be careful about how we rewrite the history of our marriage. I can say many of the same things everybody else is: Why did he stay this long if he was never happy? Was I an idiot to trust him? What have I been getting from my marriage? I could say, it was a complete sham for WH.

Obviously, there must have been something there for us to have been married so long. Geeze, we've been married longer than many of the people on this board have been alive! Regardless of what WH might say, I felt our marriage was a safe, comfortable zone that produced 3 wonderful children and a lot of good times. I felt there was love. I thought he did too. I'm just going to say that it's been good while it lasted. And maybe at some point, it will be good again. Or maybe I'll be going in an entirely different direction. I cannot rewrite that history. The marriage was never complete crap.

I am actually finding Christmas a whole lot easier so far than last year. December and most of January were all part of a D-day, WH-moving-out, crying-every-day, anxiety-ridden blur.

My house is pretty well decorated. DD and I put up outside light last weekend while it was really nice. Much to DD's chagrin, we're not doing the high parts of the house. The Christmas tree is up. There's fairy lights strung all over the house on timers. I have my stainglass village set up. It's pretty. Now, we just need a little snow.

Biggest question now: What to write in the Christmas cards.

Nah pebbles...I wish somebody would take MY XH...now XWH..Or XXWH? I forget which he is???

I found out just as you...from his former best friend about 3 weeks after separation..I fixed his best friend btw up with a girlfriend of mine and they are happily married now 10 years...

He said "wow...I could have guessed it. Darth was mean to w no. 1...he cheated on his college gf/fiancee for wife no.1"..and then he said how mean he was to wife no. 1 (short marriage, no kids...before I met him) because he missed college gf so much...and that college gf reminded friend and Darth of ME SO MUCH..

wierd.

I think this must be why there was a request at my wedding reception to play REM's "End of the World as We Know it"....

Pebbs - I don't think a success story just encompasses those with recovered marriages! You've done well.. you're my personal inspiration. I really do want to get to the point where you are at now. In slow small steps, maybe I am getting somewhat there. Or towards it.


Dunno that about my WS. He is v eager to get it over and done with. It's as if he can't wait to sign on the dotted line. As most of you know, there's been no real contact and he's been pretty blase ever since he moved out.

grapegirl - you've got a point. It's just difficult to adjust your own reality when the one you love keeps telling or by actions show you otherwise. You wonder which one was really the truth. And sometimes I don't know. Maybe the truth is coloured at both sides. *shrug*


~A

Hi, Pebbles.

Quote:
=========================================
The last time I asked him if he'd filled out his papers, he said, "I'm not coming back." I told him that was fine with me. Then he said, "I know you still want me to come back."
=========================================

He looks like a guy that has stepped on a 'Lazy Susan' with his left foot, thinking it was a skateboard. The head bent down, look of extreme concentration while his right foot pads himself around in rapid, tight circles, is just an artifact of the man that once occupied his body. Pay no attention and just keep telling him that ALL the pavement he sees, he has already seen before. He will eventually tire of going in circles. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In the mean time, you just keep doing what you are doing, and that is proving yourself to be a great 'Marriage Builders' success.

God bless,
Gimble