I'm having a hard time tonight. WH is in the next room sleeping, and I've been bawling my eyes out. MIL called tonight and asked me what was going on between WH and me. She hasn't been told ANYTHING. Partly because WH has no respect for her and her pressuring him would probably make him do the opposite of what she would tell him he should do. Anyway, she knows something's up, but doesn't know what. I asked her why she was so sure, and she said she just "had a feeling" when she was praying the other day. I pretty much outright lied to her, I just don't want to tell her right now. I said things were fine.

But they're not! WH is fence sitting. He's here and he thinks that should be enough. No affection, no sf, little conversation, and never about the A or us. I asked him tonight when he thought he might be willing to "talk" and he said he doesn't want to. I asked him why it was always about what he wanted, and what if I wanted to talk? He just shrugged his shoulders and went back to reading the paper. I'm really frustrated and not sure where to go from here. He is still in the fog and probably still in w/drawal. It's been 8 weeks since the last contact that I know of, although there have been sightings in that time. Should I just continue to plan a it and give him more time to w/draw?

I know some of you get frustrated with me, but I'm wondering, at this point would plan B really be appropriate? The A isn't ongoing, and shouldn't he be given some time to w/draw? Or do I need to ask for more now, during w/drawal? It's been a year since sf. I stopped asking then (even before dday) because it was obvious that I needed to back off at that point. But how long do I back off? I keep thinking I can do this and hang in there, and until this evening I was really planning on not talking or anything (just continuing to make home an inviting, safe place) at least until after the holidays. Now I'm not so sure I can do it. Or that I should. HELP!!!!!!!!!! I'm so worried about DS and how this will all affect him. He loves his dad so much. I know I'm pretty much rambling, and I'm not sure what my point is. I'm just having a tough time right now. Maybe I'll tell WH that I want a phone consult with one of the Harleys for Christmas.

Thanks for listening. Please give me any advice you think I need, but take into consideration all I've told you, especially the time frame and w/drawal.

WOM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My H has acted the same way and I recently have found out that contact has been on-going. So, the first thing I would do is figure out whether there is contact because your H is not acting like someone who is trying to save a M. I waited too long and put up with a lot (now I regret this) because I thought it would just take time for us to get close again. We have gotten closer, but there was always this wall there. Now I wonder if the A was really ever over. I kick myself now for not snooping sooner.

Thanks Serene,

I actually have done some snooping recently and haven't found anything out of order. I really don't think the A is ongoing. But just because the A is not ongoing doesn't mean WH is willing to work on our marriage.

I talked to him last night after I posted. He said he will not now nor will he ever read any books (marriage books, particulary the Harley books), do any more counseling, nor have sf with me. He said "I'm here, aren't I?" which has been his standard answer for the past two months. He said he's sure he'll NEVER be "in love" with me again. I told him it wouldn't just happen, that he would have to "climb" in love with me again. That it would take effort. He said, "I don't want to." I said, so why are you here? He said because I love my son. I said if you really love your son you'll love his mother.

He said he's staying for now. I asked him what that meant. What's going to change in the future? Was he waiting for OW to leave her husband so he could have her? He said that's not going to happen. So what's going to change? He said, "well, we could sell the house." Me: so when we sell the house then you leave? Him: maybe.

So, I guess if I stay I continue to get teeny little crumbs and no work whatsoever on our marriage. If I don't bring up "US" he's polite and civil and maybe even almost kind, but the second I bring us up (and I haven't for almost a month) it all falls apart.

I told him I'm tired of the charade. I'm tired of things appearing to be fine to everyone else when he's treating me so badly at home. I'm tired of the facade. I probably love busted when I basically threatened to tell a friend of his (who knows OW) what had been going on, and actually also threatened to tell DS that his dad wasn't willing to work on our marriage (I wouldn't tell him about OW). He said if I told anyone anything he was "outta here." I asked him why he didn't want anyone to know and he said it's not any of their business. He said he doesn't care what people think of him, but it's just not any of their business. This is between us, according to him.

Whenever I brought up DS and the fact that he was/would be hurting him too, he said "Stop trying to blackmail me. This doesn't have anything to do with him. It's between you and me." Even when he would ackknowledge that DS would be hurt he insisted it wasn't and shouldn't be about him.

I just don't know what to do. I'm going to call our former MC today and see if I can get in to talk to him about all of this. I really don't know where to go. I don't want to do anything drastic before Christmas, but I'm not sure I can stay any longer.

Oh, help!!!!!!

I think I'm going to do a plan b or something similar. I can't take this any more. I'm seeing our MC on Friday, and I think he'll be supportive of me taking drastic measures. I'm just at the end of my rope. Am I being too drastic? The A isn't ongoing, so maybe I should give him more time? On the other hand, he's been in w/drawal for 8 weeks and he said outright last night that he doesn't even WANT to work on our marriage. He doesn't want it to work out. He wants it to fail, I guess. I've known this for almost a year and a half, but now he's finally admitting it outright. I guess that's good in a way, huh? At least he's being honest and not putting up the facade with me any more. It's just that everyone else thinks he's perfect and wouldn't believe what's been going on. Well, if I tell him to leave the facade will soon be crumbling. We'll see how that affects him. It's actually a relief to be even considering this option. I guess I needed to get good and ready.

Thanks for listening.

WOM

I think I've kinda got him running! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He actually called today and told me he got tickets to a play tonight for us and some friends. I told him that due to the things he said last night I was under the impression that our marriage was all but over and that he was okay with that. Therefore, I wasn't eager to spend time with him, so thanks but no thanks. He says "So should I tell them we're not going?" I said, "I'm not going, you can do whatever you want."

Later he called again and we talked a bit more. He asked me if I'd changed my mind about the play, and I told him that he hadn't said anything that would change my mind about it. If he'd had any remorse about the horrible things he said last night I would have considered going, but there was NOTHING! I told him that I could NOT live this way any more and that if he wasn't going to do anything toward fixing our M that there was no point in being here any more. I said that he knew where I stood and what I was willing to do -- anything -- to save our M, but that no matter what I did it would never be enough. I can NOT do it all. I told him to let me know when he was ready to do it. I haven't exactly asked him to leave yet, but I think that's coming soon.

It was pretty funny when later he came home from work earlier than usual and asked, "So are we going to the play?" I couldn't believe he was asking me again, and I said "I think we've already talked about this." So he called the friend and made some excuse. I was cheerful, active, and going on with my own life this evening. He obviously wasn't sure how to take it. I think he expected me to be a wreck, but I am actually feeling quite good right now. I'm pretty sure he's wondering what I'm up to, and I think I'll let him keep wondering for a few days. Then maybe this weekend I'll hit him with the bombshell: Plan B.

I'm still very scared and nervous about it, but it has GOT to change. I really cannot continue living in this situation. I mean, he won't even ***pretend*** to want to work on the M. Very defiant, very mean-spirited. Of course, it was all my fault that he said those hurtful things to me last night. I did ask the questions and all he did was answer, he says. Sigh. He really doesn't get it. He is very foggy right now. I hope the Plan B. will get through the fog. Something has to.

i'm wondering if the affair is really over? I'm wondering this because he may be getting his affection, conversation and SF from OW and that's why he doesn't need/want it from you.

it seems that he's had enough time for withdrawl and should be wanting to work on the marriage by now if the affair really is over.

i really have doubts from what you've said.

I would make every effort to find out and if it is still ongoing...i would expose the affair...your keeping it a secret is allowing it to continue

i might tell my H that i know the trith and ask him one last time to end it for good...write and send a no-contact letter and follow the plan for recovery in surviving an affair...and if he chooses not to...then expose!!this should be tried before plan B from what I've read

what you think may happen if you MIL finds out (that he may do the opposite of what she pressures him to do) might be true...then again maybe not

who else do you need to tell? His brothers or sisters? and most DEFINETLY that frind of his who knows OW!! what about OW husband?? The more people who know, the better your chances are because you have people telling him he is wrong and people watching him....once it's not a big secret anymore...the A loses it's "magic"

ps
i thought the a was over...i thought there was no contact..even after my h moved out...i thought he was just done with me...had no feelings left for me...didn't want to work on our marraige....

the affair had started again...and is still continuing

working_on_me I feel your pain Im in almost the same situation with my WW although we do talk about day to day things she wont do anything to help fix the relationship says she has no feelings for me in one breath & than talks about our future plans with the house ect. its really confusing. how do they expect there feelings to change
without putting any effort into it?


Cliff

I'm in a similar situation too but I was just wondering in the play was his way of working on the marriage and you just stomped on his olive branch. I don't know. It depends on his needs and your needs.

write your plan b letter and post it for review....

ARK^^

workin' on me,
I think you are married to my WH!!!They sound exactly the same.I've given him the benefit of the doubt thinking his mood was withdrawl...he has made NO effort to restore our marriage. He has been great with the kids, especially DD10, he is working on the house and is home everynight. SF has not been a problem. (not even when A was in full swing).

I thought NC was in place. He refused to write NC letter.Their A was primarily EA that got "somewhat" physical...so they justified they didn't do anything wrong. I don't think he has seen her but I would bet she emails him at work or they talk on the phone while he is at work. I'm sure he sees this as "safe"...after all he's not seeing her and he's home...isn't that enough? NOT BY A LONG SHOT!

I'll send over the bulldozer after I shove WH off the fence! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

eav,
I really, really don't think it's continuing. I have done some detective work and it hasn't turned up anything. I'm not sure how much further I would have to take it to find out, and I don't even know HOW to find out. I can see why it would appear that the A is ongoing, but I think it's his extraordinary stubborness that's making him continue to act this way. Also, I think I may not have mentioned that his father left his stepmom (and their two teenagers) for another woman in February, two weeks after OUR d-day. He's living with the OW, the D is almost final, and whenever my WH talks to his dad he hears about how wonderful his dad's life is. And his OW was someone he cheated with on his first wife 25 years ago! So Wh thinks he will always have these feelings for OW and nothing will make him happy but to be with her, because that's what he's hearing and seeing from his dad. He just has one sister and she's been the WS in at least 2 relationships. She's not much help either. Maybe telling MIL would help, but it's not worth the risk to me right now. If I found out it was ongoing then maybe.

Cliff,
You're absolutely right, their feelings will NOT change without effort. He says he's made that effort, but I know and he knows it's a buncha hooey!

rb123,
I know what you're saying about the play maybe being an olive branch, but I really don't think so. I gave him a chance to apologize or even say something semi-nice to me and if he had I would have considered the possibility of going. But he continued to be extremely defiant and rude to me. Also, I REALLY feel that it was a save-face situation for him more than anything. He didn't want to cancel because the friend would wonder what was going on. Also, to make it more clear, he didn't actually have the tickets, he had made reservations for them, so they weren't paid for or anything. Thanks for your concern.

ark,
I'll work on my plan b letter and let you all help me with it -- thanks!

confused,
Yes, send that bulldozer right over <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have wondered about emails and phone conversations as well, but I really don't think it's taking place in my situation.


I've decided to back off for now, until I get things in place for plan b, assuming that's where I go. If he wants a roomate, he's got a roomate. He's sleeping on the couch and DS and I will do our own thing. He's welcome to join us, but I'm not going to invite him. If he decides he wants a wife, he's going to have to convince me he's serious. I'll ask for an NC letter, and a verbal or written commitment to our marriage. He'll have to decide what he's willing to do -- concretely -- to help get us past this. Maybe he'll be willing, maybe not -- we'll see. For now, I think I'm doing okay, just hoping I can be strong.