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I honestly don't think he's having an affair right now... but he always seems to seek the attention of another besides me. I might think he's going to the gym right now in preparation for his new single life, if he is leaving me... he hasn't said so.

He has a very long history of inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. Seems over the years it's always some female. Inappropriate to me is that she's not my friend, I may or may not have met her, there is not a current work related relationship, and there is some talk of me... even if it was to tell her I am "jealous." They think that I am jealous is "silly" of me. However, he asked if I minded if they had lunch and I said yes, I do mind.

He says he is not her type. <-whats wrong with that statement?

I guess would say I wouldn't be shocked to find one of them lead to sex. I might be really surprised I hadn't figured it out. I'm fairly clever.

For the past few years he took up nude female photography. Mostly artistic but definitely provocative. I certainly wasn't onboard. I know I haven't seen the worst photos from that... He recently asked if I wanted to. He says he doesn't take those photos anymore, hasn't said why.

Last edited by CarolynsFingers; 01/16/17 07:52 PM.
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Once this place was his bible. Everyone was onboard with him. He spouted the MB riot act. I suggested he review it again. He doesn't remember...

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Originally Posted by CarolynsFingers
For the past few years he took up nude female photography. Mostly artistic but definitely provocative.
Please tell me you are joking.


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Originally Posted by CarolynsFingers
Once this place was his bible. Everyone was onboard with him. He spouted the MB riot act. I suggested he review it again. He doesn't remember...
Could you tell me your previous posting name...and his?


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Originally Posted by CarolynsFingers
I honestly don't think he's having an affair right now... but he always seems to seek the attention of another besides me. I might think he's going to the gym right now in preparation for his new single life, if he is leaving me... he hasn't said so.

He has a very long history of inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. Seems over the years it's always some female. Inappropriate to me is that she's not my friend, I may or may not have met her, there is not a current work related relationship, and there is some talk of me... even if it was to tell her I am "jealous." They think that I am jealous is "silly" of me. However, he asked if I minded if they had lunch and I said yes, I do mind.

He says he is not her type. <-whats wrong with that statement?

I guess would say I wouldn't be shocked to find one of them lead to sex. I might be really surprised I hadn't figured it out. I'm fairly clever.

For the past few years he took up nude female photography. Mostly artistic but definitely provocative. I certainly wasn't onboard. I know I haven't seen the worst photos from that... He recently asked if I wanted to. He says he doesn't take those photos anymore, hasn't said why.
Your husband is having an affair. He has probably had several.

You don't seem to be taking this seriously. You seem to want to chew things over, and chat. Do you care if he is having an affair?


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threads have been merged so posters understand the back story. SpankMixsWife = CarolynsFingers


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Well, that explains a lot. Her husband came here when this poster asked him for permission to have sex with another man. Her husband met this poster while cheating on his previous wife (with this poster? This is not clear). He sees to be a serial cheat, and at one time, they considered their marriage "open". From the first post on this merged thread:

"She also pronounced that monogomy isn't natural and I'd have permission to sleep with somebody if I wanted with us both agreeing on a set of rules. Yet she doesn't want to be swingers or even be considered in an open marriage because she's not sure she's planning on doing it again. Just now. Just once to feel alive, etc. To feel young perhaps. It's just something she needs to do! The sex with a stranger has to be some deep-rooted need that's going unmet. Thoughts? Or it's just a release... :-)"

This might explain why this poster is so laid back about her husband's affairs, and porn photography.

Carolyn, don't know whether you and your husband ever saw yourselves as having converted to the ideals of a Marriage Builders marriage, which is, by its nature monogamous and integrated. Spouses do not have friends of the opposite sex, and they do not have independent lifestyles. They most certainly do not have open marriages.

Would you say your husband was ever on board with this? If so, he certainly is not now.

Did your husband have an affair with you?


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Yes this was an old post. And the thing I find most interesting is that my husband had been guilty of all the above but behind my back... and I was handing it back to him on a silver platter. He has always had some female friend on the side. I have never been able to tell how far it went. He always said he wouldn't know how it felt because it hadn't happened to him. So I posed that what if I did the same... And I had known a guy then that was aware of my husband... and his ways. And so I thought lets make a run and see what he thinks... And he came here. The most interesting thing is that I never defended myself.

He to this day tries to get me to agree to a threesome and then some. I have never and would not. I invited him to re read this recently.

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It has never been an open marriage. I have never been ok with that. I am not ok with endless women... but I sure got his attention.

What is good for the gander must be good for the goose... only he didn't think so.

And I am at the same point. Lets go get a male friend and see what he thinks.


Only Im sick of this game and I want him to end it himself without the threat.

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Did your marriage begin as an affair?

Did you have sex with the man in those old posts?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I met him when he was married. I was unaware. Later he divorced and I saw him again. He had 4 affairs in his past marriage. He says that somewhere. He is and was a club DJ. I figure he has a lot of opportunities. To say I was at the club 4 times in a week is hilarious. Really I am home with my kid. Must have been a great week. I would do that again.

I never touched the man in that post. And mostly the mentality was my husband had already cheated by that point but hadn't been caught. He maintains he has not. I was ready to end it all at the point I wrote that.

I do wonder why I didn't mention his b.s.. I am amused at his posts today.

I wonder how ignorant I am. I want to believe he never has physically cheated. The female friends that "help him with his relationship" are bad enough. He's lived the single life all along.

Last edited by CarolynsFingers; 01/16/17 10:29 PM.
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Your son learns from you two how to treat his partner when he grows up. I'm praying for you guys that you can turn away from all this and be strong for one another. We have amazing success stories here it is possible. How about asking the moderators move your thread to the infidelity section?


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Originally Posted by CarolynsFingers
I met him when he was married. I was unaware. Later he divorced and I saw him again. He had 4 affairs in his past marriage.
When you met him and he was married and you were unaware, did he hit on you or act like he was single? What happened when you met?

The way you write this it seems you are saying something happened when you first met but he concealed the fact that he was married? If that's not the case, could you please explain further?

When did you learn that he was married the first time you met? How did that unfold?

When did you learn that he had had affairs in his prior marriage?


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He pursued me while he was DJing and he was married. I did not immediately know this and broke it off shortly after. I saw him again after he moved out but was not divorced for many month afterward.

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Originally Posted by CarolynsFingers
He pursued me while he was DJing and he was married. I did not immediately know this and broke it off shortly after. I saw him again after he moved out but was not divorced for many month afterward.

This would be classified as an affairage. Dr Harley has spoken of his difficulty saving marriages that start as an affair, many times on his radio show and he has posted about it, which I will share with you below. You would probably be best off getting his help directly for your situation.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
oneoftwo:

I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.

I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.

There are so many obsticles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.

But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.

I'm sure that your counselor has been encouraging your wife to negotiate with you so that you can reach a joint agreements regarding her children, but to no avail. And I've experienced the same thing. In spite of a blended family couple's willingness to follow the POJA when I talk to them, when it comes to a decision that will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.

The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because if the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.

While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


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Thank you SusieQ. Will read up.

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