WW was asked by her commander to pull her retirement papers, said he will push for her to extend or re-enlist. She isn't sure what she wants to do. I asked her to come home this weekend and discuss as family and negotiate what to do. She said she has to think about what she actually wants to do. She has to tell them Wednesday if she wants to stay or retire. She is leaning toward retiring, but the opportunity to get promoted to E-7 MSgt is a dream and goal of hers that I squashed last June. When that happened it was a turning point in our marriage. I had told her that if she voluntarily stayed away from the family that was a deal breaker and a lawyer would be required. Now I want to negotiate a resolution, but she can't seem to decide what she wants. A real monkey wrench in the works.

Help!

You know, Eagle, I was about to suggest that perhaps you all could move there and live together if she decides to stay, however, that won't work because she would still be working with the OM. Living apart like this is what has caused this affair and a continuation of being apart will make recovery impossible. Your marriage only has a chance if you live together and she no longer works with the OM.

So, you may very well be contacting the lawyer after all, because it will be pretty hopeless otherwise. This is not a solution that benefits you or the children in any way, only her. And it does so at the expense of her family.

Here is what Harley says about contact with a former lover:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful. Honesty is an extremely important element in reconciliation, and it should be understood that if the unfaithful spouse ever sees or communicates with the lover, he or she should immediately tell the spouse that it happened. They should then agree on a plan that would prevent a recurrence of contact in the future. But as soon as any contact is made, it throws the unfaithful spouse back to the beginning of withdrawal, and the time it takes to overcome the feelings of grief begins all over again.

entire article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Eagle15, sorry for butting in, but I thought I'd just throw out something for you to think about in the context of your current dilemna.

"Forgiven" does not mean "forgotten."
"Forgiven" does not mean all consequences of prior actions are magically "wiped away." We, in general, LIVE with our mistakes and try NOT to repeat them.

The "temptation" being used is the E7 "desire."

That "career path" was ended when she chose the bedroom carrier path WITHOUT you. She CAN still have the E7 path, but most likely NOT that PLUS her family.

Choices are NOT always easy in life, and you had NONE with respect to the affair. You DO have a choice now that will be determined by HER actions.

I would advise you both to choose wisely and think of the relative benefits of BOTH choice "paths." "Married until death do us part" and "Military service until separated by choice or mandatory retirement age, but NOT until death do us part (unless actively participating in a war zone)."

I'll not even bring up the real long-term goal of heaven. That's a matter of one's personal faith and I don't know enough about you and your wife to go there.

God bless and grant you both His wisdom as you seek to choose wisely.

And her service in the military and resultant affair - from being apart - has done more than "squashed" your marriage and your family. It has about destroyed both of them. Her selfish career moves has your family on the rocks right now. Further selfishness will likely be the thing that completely kills the marriage. You have a chance if she comes home and works on the marriage. You have no chance if she doesn't.

Chuck, as you can see, living apart is devastating to even good marriages. It is sure to annhiliate a bad marriage that is already on the rocks.

Mel,

She doesn't actually work with OM, OM works across the base, about 3 miles away. She met him when he came in to get his knee Xrayed. I am open to moving there and finding another job, but she is still thinking she wants to retire, just about fed up with the people who work for her. Not sure she wants to stay and end up in the sand box (IRAQ). She is trying to decide what she wants, I asked her to come home this weekend so we could negotiate and POJA the decision, all 4 of us. DD and DS have already told her they don't want to move again and asked her to just retire and come home. She told them "don't worry about it", I'm not sure what that means, but hope it means she will retire anyway. I have told her recently that if she wants all of us in the same house she needs to say so, she has said so, but this new wrench in the cogs will cause a financial hardship as well as uprooting the kids, they have just started feeling comfortable here in AL and have made many new friends. I have offered in the past to give up my lob and move to OKC or anywhere else she may be assigned to, but she says it would be financial suicide. Last week we discussed this issue again and I told her we can always make more money, but I don't marital suicide. Jobs come and go, marriage should last forever. She was very quiet after that, and didn't mention financial suicide again.

I am willing to negotiate (compromise) and POJA if she decides she wants to stay in the AF, but I am not willing to remain seperated and the kids aren't either. I just wish her commander would not have asked about this, the timing is terrible.

Any thoughts, ideas, or advice is more than welcome, even 2X4s if you think it is necessary.

Thanks Mel and FH I am always grateful for your thoughts and advice.

Chuck

Chuck, as long as they work for the same company in the same town, they will still cross paths. This is why Harley recommends even moving to another town to avoid contact. He is adamant about this issue and with good cause. Even seeing PM in a hallway or a meeting will hamper her withdrawal. It is just like a recovering alcoholic having an occasional drink. I would keep this in mind.

Personally, this would have been a deal breaker for me for my H to continue to work with the OW. I have seen affairs on this forum that lingered for years because the BS was not firm in his resolve that all contact end. They were on again, off again, for years, when if true no contact had taken place up front, the affair could have been avoided. It was like dying a death of a thousand cuts for the BS to be put back to Day 1 of recovery every time the WS "happened" into contact with the OP.

Eagle15, lest I leave you with the wrong impression, I wanted to state that I am very pro-military and I appreciate those men and women who serve our nation.

But the military also IS hard on families. It's part of what "comes with the turf." As a Christian willingly surrenders "control" of their lives to God, a person in the military has willingly surrendered "control" of their lives to those "above them" in the "chain of command." They GO where they are told to go and associate with others who are likewise assigned there to accompish the mission of the military. The mission of the military can be a lot of things, but nurturing a marriage as having "priority" in assignment is not one of them.

Military service is "hard enough" on marriages without the addition of infidelity. One of the major issues you are going to have to deal with ("you" meaning both of you) is the issue of TRUST. Suffice it say, trust is defined as "being able to predict your spouse's behavior in any given situation even when YOU are NOT present."

Trust rebuilding takes a lot of time and consistant behavior to "prove" the legitmacy of a "changed life" and the words of reassurance that are spoken. In essence, "words are cheap," show me!

IF your wife is to remain in the AF, the two of you need to establish some reliable STANDARDS and BOUNDARIES. Understand that the main issue remains your wife's "faulty" decision making apparatus. Given a similar circumstance, what would make her not "choose poorly" again in the future?

Obedience to, and humble submisison to, God is how Christians approach this tough situation. For non-Christians, WHO and WHAT will one be accountable to for one's actions, both seen and unseen?

Not knowing where you and your wife sit vis-a-vie Christ, I'll revert to suggesting you both need to spend time on the STANDARDS and BOUNDARIES issue no matter whether she re-enlists or resigns from the AF.

God bless.

Mel,

Currently they and I are ordered to have no contact by both commanders. She has very little opportunity to see him unless he comes to the hospital. She has maintained NC as she doesn't want to lose her retirement. I am uncomfortable moving to OKC because of the A, but will to put the family back together and continue working on the M.

I am happy that right now she is talking about continuing with the retirement and moving here to AL. She ahs also told the kids not to worry about it. When I talked to her this morning she again said she has just about had it with all the hassles of AF life and putting up with the people who work for her.

She also talked to her GF last night, GF works as a Mammo Tech, helped her get her part time job at civilian hosp, and told WW that she can make almost double her AF income working Full time at any hospital, also a lot less hassle as she would not be in charge and not have anyone working for her.

I hope she does decide to continue her retirement, if that is what happens she will not be coming home this weekend, if she is still undecided by Wed, she will probably come home this weekend to discuss it. I asked her to discuss face to face, all 4 of us as last time we talked about her staying I LB'd my a** off and sent her around the bend. She understands that and also wants to discuss face to face if she thinks she wants to stay.

We are both christians, not church every Sunday Christians, both have been saved. We also need to re-establish boundaries and probably the Rules of engagement in order to continue working on M. I have stated that I would move to OKC if she would ask and want us there, as for this request from her commander she hasn't said she wants us to move ther hence the request by me for her to come talk to the kids and I in person. If we were to move to OKC she would then have to write a NC letter as I would not be comfortable without it. She would still be under NC order from her commander, but the NC letter would make me feel better.

I retired from teh AF in Sep 2000 after 24.5 yrs, and spent most of my career deployed or TDY. She had never been anywhere but FL until she got orders to Japan.

Waiting on pins and needles for a decision to be made.

Chuck AKA Eagle15

Bump

A plan that keeps her far away from the OM and with her family is good. Even if it means tightening the $$ belt. Seems you may do better that.

So what is stopping u 2?

L.

We have to wait for her retirement date to come up.

Til them what r u 2 planning t/d to make each other feel safe? Make sure you are doing your MB homework. You can't just live on the advice from here.

L.

She is reading LB now, has read SAA, and half of Not Just Friends by Dr Glass, and we are talking frequently on the phone. I have read everything on here, the website, and SAA, LB, HNHN, NJF, and FILSIL. WW thinks MB is BS, but is doing the MB things I have asked her to do, and told me last Sun before she left not to listen to her words, but watch her actions as one of my favorite sayings has always been "Actions Speak Louder Than Words". Her actions have been very good, her words have been very hurtful. She did tell me Sat night that she could feel deposits in her love bank, but had also felt some withdrawals, but was trying hard to prevent withdrawls. I had just told her I was feeling like I was losing some of my love for her and that is how she responded. She was very upset about SF though, but is trying to not let that make withdrawls. I have had 2 sessions with Jennifer and she told me to wait to schedule another session until WW has retired and moved here to AL. I am in MC/IC, she see's the base chaplain at Tinker weekly and when she is here she goes to MC with me, 3 sessions of MC here so far.

Just talked to her on the phone, she is leaning heavily towards retirement as she is not happy with her job and the people she works with at the base anymore. Also the kids have told her they don't want to move again as they just got here last May and started the new school year here, made new friends and don't want to go through the "New Kid in School" syndrome again.

Thank you Orchid I appreciate your help and everyone else's help. I don't think I could do this without the great support from everyone here.

Chuck

Chuck, the "signs" are positive, but don't let down your guard just yet. While it sounds like she is coming out of the fog, be ready for "two steps forward and one step backward" for some time to come. The average recovery takes 2 years, so it IS a "long haul" commitment and not a "sprint."

God bless.

FH,

That's what I'm worried about. Some days I don't know if I'll make it through the long haul.

Thank you for your confidence and advice, I need all I can get.

Chuck

<BUMP>

She informed the commander at stand-up this morning that she is retiring 1 Feb. He tried to talk her out of it, but she stuck to her guns. He also thought she was just getting out, not retiring, after finding out she was retiring he still tried to talk her out of retiring. Must be a real shortage of X-Ray technicians.

Chuck

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Thank you everyone for helping me over this hurdle.

I talked to WW last night she said she told me this was the plan, what actually happened was I asked if she was heavily leaning towards retirement, she said yes. She told me last night she didn't hear the heavily leaning, and thought I asked directly about retirement and that she thought I should be first to know she had made her decision. Strange.

Again Thank you everyone for helping me over this hurdle.