Short version: WW has had 2 A's since May, plus a one-night stand. I'm starting to think it's time for a D. I'm looking for guidance on how to make the decision. Don't recall seeing much on that in these forums.

There are a lot of wrong reasons to D: being mad at her, being out of patience, being tired of all the cr*p, wanting to get this stuff out of my life, etc. But I'm sure those are the wrong reasons.

I don't want to make the decision for the wrong reason, hence the question. I'm not very religious, but I think the best way to frame the question is in terms of what God wants.

I know the bible allows for D in cases of adultery. How do we know when God wants us to D? What are the right reasons? In what situations is D the right decision to make?

Thank you for your views.

I know the bible allows for D in cases of adultery. How do we know when God wants us to D?

I don't think God will ever tell someone to divorce. He lets us make that decision. And yes, divorce is permitted by the act of adultery. But the decision will be yours, not Gods. If recovery is not possible, I think you will just know when divorce is your only option.

I feel for you, it looks like your WW has had many affairs.

Hope this helps,

Lady

wnh, God lays down the parameters and leaves it up to you to make the decision using your own judgement based on his principles.

That being said, I think your situation calls for much more serious action than Plan A, because your W's behavior is so destructive. And I think she has been emboldened on this path by her IC who has encouraged to her to do what she wants instead of what is right.

Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the big D, but would try and find a C with an operating mind and functional set of morals who can guide you out of this sewer. I think Steve Harley would be immensely helpful in your situation. And perhaps he would suggest trying Plan B for awhile instead of Plan D. Just know this, he won't waste a minute of your time and will be worth every penny.

You cannot change your W, but you can possibly motivate her to want to change. Counseling with SH is much cheaper and less painful than D so I would try that first and see what he thinks. He may very well recommend D, but if there is any hope here, he might be able to help you capitalize on it.

I agree with Mel that God doesn't give you an answer one way or another but rather guides you along to making right choices for YOU.

In my case,I did a lot of praying,soul searching,waiting,reading,etc.For some time.And then,one day,it seemed to be the right time: it was over.I was no longer going to do Plan A,no more Plan B,no more wondering and sleepless nights waiting for my WH to make a move.Nope.I felt very strongly that God guided me on a path of healing,and that to me was moving on with my life without my *WH* in it.If my HUSBAND ever came back then that would be a different story and I was prepared for that but he never did,the WH remained so I kept on my path of healing,of working closer to God and being true to myself and it FELT right.I guess if I had any suggestion to you about the "when",it would be when it felt right for you to LET GO.I have heard many other's say this too,it FELT like the right time to move on.

If you believe that D is justifiable in cases of adultery,even by biblical standards,so to speak,then you do have that backup in your mind and soul that if that decision is to be made,you can be assured it was supported.

It will always be a hard decision to make but at some point,I truly believe weall have to make decisons based on what is happening to US,not on what the WS is doing or not doing.There is a difference.

O

Thanks all. But according to our church's group MC our hearts are treacherous and we must guard against error driven by our hearts. I understand your thoughts, but there must be more to it that you've not said yet. I don't want to rely on my heart or my feeling that the time is right. Is there a less subjective way to think about whether to D?

Mel knows I can be repetitive and persistent with questions. With apologies, here goes: How do we know when God wants us to D? What are the right reasons? In what situations is D the right decision to make?

wnh, the reasons are laid out in the Bible. It is justified in the event of adultery. Just follow the principles laid out in the Bible and use your judgement. You can't go wrong if you do that.

When he lays out the guidelines, he expects YOU to make the decision. He is not going to come down and micromanage your life for you. And neither will we.

Well,to a certain degree this may be true for *some individuals.But for me,no matter what my heart says,if it's not right,I'm not doing it.

How do you expect to find an answer wnh? No ne is going to hand it to you on a silver platter.And every one is different.If you cannot be true to yourself and listen to your own feelings then just how do you live?? Even if you let the courts decide what to do,it may not be in your best interest of even what you want.Do you not trust yourself with the responsibilities and choices you make?

Again to reiterate,it wasn't so much that I had a feeling of D,it was more related to the fact that I was not going to live my life this way anymore.The alternative was too painful.So,if I am not married in any sense of the word anymore except my marriage license,the only option is to D.There is no other outcome.Live a life of pain/limbo with a WS or end it.Unfortunately there are ony two options IMO.

O

Yes there is. Instead of using your "feelings" you should use your God-given MIND, following the principles that God gave you in his Word. That is what he expects you to do. The heart is deceptive and can easily mislead.

Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

weneedhelp,

I was once married to a woman [first W] who had multiple affairs. From my experience, there was nothing I could do for her so I made the choice to let go and divorce her. It wasn't until after we were divorced that she finally hit rock bottom. She attempted suicide, was institutionalized by her brother, and finally acknowledged her issues and committed herself to professional therapy to resolve them. Today she is a much happier, healthier woman and good mother to our girls, though its too late for us since I remarried since the divorce.

As much as I am pro-marriage, the issue of a multiple affairs WS is something that is most likely beyond the help of the MB principles.

You may want to read the following excerpt from Dr Harley's article Coping with Infidelity: Part 4 Overcoming Resentment from before you decide your plan of action:



TMCM

Ladysheep, Mel, Octobergirl and TMCM. All very helpful comments, many thanks!

The Jeremiah verse was the one we had pursued at church MC; but I like the Proverbs one better. I know my own heart is very deceitful. And I know any decision I make in the heat of the moment is not a good one. I need to get back to some sort of equilibrium state before deciding such an important issue.

I have discussed with a D attorney. That was very painful; and just a taste of what the actual D process will be like. Not good.

Re the excerpt above, I think I could overcome the resentment of multiple affairs, if WW would stop bringing new ones before we get done with the old ones!

At this point her heart and mind SEEM to be most of the way back. But then A#2 - if it's over at all - was only ended within the last 3 weeks. And as recently as 3 weeks ago WW was, I believe, flirting via email with OM#3 from her one-night stand. So it's definitely too early to tell if her heart and mind are where they should be.

Still I believe I am called on to love, help and not enable her while she finds her way out of the woods. Even if it takes a long long time and a lot of suffering. But it's very hard to know. I suppose many in my shoes would feel they are called on to let her go, for the good of her, the kids and myself.

We are in the wilderness, and could use as much wisdom as you all can share. Many many thanks.

wnh, I really feel for you my friend. You've given me lots of encouragement and support when I was feeling down so I wanted to let you know that I'm here for you listen and provide support.

wnh, this is one of the reasons I suggested trying Plan B before you just throw in the towel. First off, Plan B would remove you from her craziness and allow you to think more clearly.

It may also give her the impetus necessary to change herself when faced with the consequences of her actions and possible loss of her marriage. The most loving thing you can do is force her to face the consequences. Otherwise, she stays lost in her sin.

II hope, though, that you realize that you cannot continue to fiddle around the edges here. Doing so only feeds to her destructive entitlement mentality.

Because your problem is not an affair, but a wife that is actively pursuing a destructive lifestyle. This is a character problem and not a marital problem.

Have you told her you are investigating divorce? I think you should be honest with her and make sure she understands where you are. She needs to know you are at the end of your rope.

Mark 7:14-22 (The Message)
14 Jesus called the crowd together again and said, "Listen now, all of you--
take this to heart. 15 It's not what you swallow that pollutes your life; it's
what you vomit--that's the real pollution." 17 When he was back home after
being with the crowd, his disciples said, "We don't get it. Put it in plain
language." 18 Jesus said, "Are you being willfully stupid? Don't you see that
what you swallow can't contaminate you? 19 It doesn't enter your heart but your
stomach, works its way through the intestines, and is finally flushed." (That
took care of dietary quibbling; Jesus was saying that all foods are fit to
eat.) 20 He went on: "It's what comes out of a person that pollutes:
21obscenities, lusts, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 greed, depravity,
deceptive dealings, carousing, mean looks, slander, arrogance, foolishness-- 23
all these are vomit from the heart. There is the source of your pollution."

WNH there are lots of things that can pollute the heart and unfortunately until a person is willing to accept their heart is polluted and needs to be cleaned they just continue to wade in sewage, which appears to be what your wife has been doing. And I know because I have been there. You can't change her, she has to allow God to work in her life to make the change. If she refuses help she will continue to go as she has always gone.

Gods purpose was for us to choose a mate and be married for life. Unfortunately sin entered the picture and corrupted the way life should have been.

Mel asks a good question, does your wife know where you are and the seriousness of the damage she has caused. She may think she knows, but does she really? I know in my sexual addiction I only thought I knew, but I never really knew the true damage I was doing because I deceived myself.

whn,

You have been given excellent information from everyone so far. Just to put in my .02 worth.


You are also given the Holy Spirit to help guide you. If you have an intimate relationship with God (developed by reading His word, praying and worshiping Him daily) then you can be confident of the answers you get from wise counsel.

Mel is right on target. IMO, God will never tell someone to D/ He has given you the right to D, but that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Separating and protecting yourself and D are not the same thing. A good plan b will help do that. Counseling from a good, pro marriage, Christian Counselor should help. Steve Harley would be excellent.

Having said that, I know it may seem like a cop out, but you really are the only one who will know when it's time to get out. If you've tried your best to work on the M, God will not hold it against you if you choose to file for a D.

Good luck and bless you.

S&C

Let me start by saying that there are still some days (getting fewer) that I think about D and fantasize about punishing WH for how he has made me suffer. On those days, I feel restless and troubled. When I quit fighting God and get deep in prayer, I feel a peace come over me. During these times, I feel that I am able to think more clearly. In my case, I feel that I cannot D as long as my WH is trying.

I don't think that God wants us to D. However, he recognizes that he alows both spouses freedom of choice and he gives the BS a way out when the WS refuses to repent. You cannot make your spouse change. I think that you need to know that you tried your best so that you don't have any regrets. If your spouse still refuses to change, D may be necessary. Regardless, God will be there to support you if you only ask.

Absolutely. Good question. Unilateral decisions are dismal at best.

fbwidow said:

This may be hard to believe, but WW seems repentent, eager to reconcile, willing to do whatever it takes, etc. OTOH she's been that way since mid-October - during which time she was secretly involved with OM#2 and had the one-night stand with OM#3. You will understand my confusion.


Edited to add: Yes I've told her that I've consulted a D attorney. She asked if I plan to file; I told her that right now I dont know; and that it would be wrong of me to make a hasty decison while in a bad frame of mind. We left it there.

Thanks all for your thoughts and concern. I hope you will write again if you have more to add.

This has been very helpful for me today. I too am considering divorce but knew that that was a decision only I could make. I have been unable to get concrete evidence of my husbands affair but tons of circumstantial evidence. I even addressed the issue of him talking about sexual things with his coworker and he said that I should grow up and realize that most people talk about sexual matters with those of the opposite sex. I just feel so frustrated. he has no remorse and excuses most of what he does and acts as if I am insane. He refuses MC and I feel it is hopeless and am ready to let go. I really feel divorce is our only issue.

Divorce is our only choice not issue.