I chat regularly on Just Found Out. But actually my d-day is just over a year ago. I can't seem to get over this as hard as we have both tried. We are still in MC, speak kindly to each other, date often. My H has tried so very hard in so many ways. I don't have anything negative to say about the way he has tried to make ammends after his year long A with one of his employees.

But try as I might I can't get over it. I don't love him. I like him and I even enjoy him, but the love is totally gone. Over the last 2 months our sex life has gone down big time because I don't enjoy sex with him anymore. As long as we are chatting over the dinner table with our 2 small children, I'm fine. But if he wants to cuddle or God forbid get physical, I feel so uncomfortable I could run and hide. I still have a hard time looking him in the eyes, a year later.

I trust right now that he is doing the right thing by me. I don't believe his A with her or anyone else is going on. But I can't seem to find happiness anymore. I think I want to divorce, but being a stay at home mom with 2 small kids, I'm afraid.

I've read everything I can get my hands on and pray for comfort, but I'm still terribly unhappy. What should I do?
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From your posting, it sounds as if your husband still loves you and wants to restore your marriage. Please don't give up yet - your marriage can be healed, you can feel safe and loved again, and you can love this man again, with all of your heart.

Have you tried filling out Dr. Harley's questionnaires yet, particularly the Emotional Needs and the Love Busters ones? Perhaps that would help your husband know what to focus on to make you comfortable again.

I wonder whether you feel it would be unsafe to fall in love with your husband again? The more you communicate your needs, fears, and reservations, the better equipped he will be to address them and make things better between you.

Does he know about Dr. Harley's work? Perhaps you could buy the book "His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage." If you and your husband could read that together, read this website of Dr. and Steven Harley's articles, and fill out the questionnaires, then begin by agreeing to the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would be well on your way to healing.

There is an article here that you might want to read, and share with your husband. It is called "Why Women Leave Men," and can be found in the Articles section of this website.

You are not ready for divorce, I believe. You are ready to reach out and try to find healing for your grief and broken heart. Am I right about this?

You will find the answers here, and this can be the month when it all begins to turn around for you and your husband. What do you want for Christmas (or whatever holidays you celebrate next)? Why not ask your husband for the gift of learning this program with you?

My heart goes out to you, and I will remember you in my prayers. If you want to read more about my own situation, look under the string "What am I doing wrong? Divorce looming..." I have learned much in the short time since my first posting, but I believe we can all gain insight by learning from others' journeys.

Don't give up! The best is ahead of you.

Thank you so much for your heartfelt response. I could honestly feel your concern though the message. Thank you thank you.

I do not want a divorce, but after a HUGE fight last night, I think I am ready for seperation. My H and I did not fight before his A and we rarely fight now. But a BIG fight broke out over my desire to see his cell phone bill and his position that it is not a show of moving forward in the marriage. I do not suspect that he is hiding anything from me, but I also do not think he understands how this is not about punishing him or staying stuck in a bad place. This is about safeguards in our marriage.

Again, he has tried many things, but I think you are correct when I say that I remain frustrated by his ability to get to the core of the issue. He goes through the motions, but I don't feel his desire to LEARN to do things better, I see him trying quick fixes. The depth isn't there, just the show. I have an interest in infidelity and preventing it, he has an interest in simply putting it all behind us and moving forward. You don't know where you are going if you don't know where you have been. Every time I try to look at where we have been, put up a safeguard or something, he considers it a penanace. I feel like we are spinning our wheels.

I am seriously considering seperation after the holidays. Do you think this would help?

Again, thank you for your response. I need to leave now, but will try to view your other post later.

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I don't believe that separation would help, despite the fact that it would make you feel emotionally safer. Withdrawl does make one feel safer, but at the expense of healing and repair.

If you have been feeling a bit "cold" for awhile, you will not have been fully meeting your husband's needs, and it would not be surprising if he feels edgy and unloved. I know he did something very wrong, and it seems as if he would like for you to just pretend it never happened. But really, it's a good sign that he wishes it hadn't happened.

I think it might help if you tell him outright that you want the two of you to learn to meet each other's needs better by following the Marriage Builders program. If you focus on the fact that you both have work to do, then he might be more receptive. Tell him that you want for both of you to be in love together again, and to have a marriage that really works for both of you and makes you both happy. This would be so good for your children to see!

About the cellphone bill - I don't know how that could have been handled...I am learning this stuff as quickly as I can, but I'm not sure about this one. I do know that the Policy of Joint Agreement, essential to a happy marriage, says that neither of you should ever do anything without an enthusiastic agreement from your spouse. Perhaps there is some way that you can make yourself a solid promise, before God, that whatever you find on the bill you will NOT use against your husband but just use it to find out who he is so that you two can begin the Policy of Radical Honesty? Maybe if he knew that you just wanted to truly know him, and the two of you could work together as a team to learn how to be good to each other, then he wouldn't feel so threatened or invaded?

I'm sorry to not be more clear in my views, sometimes. I am just learning, too, but I feel very strongly that your marriage can survive, heal, and then thrive. But separation is a step in the wrong direction! It won't help for either or both of you to become more independent!

Looking back over this posting, I think it might be possible to interpret it that I think you are in the wrong, but please don't think that. I believe that nothing you may have ever done or not done made you deserve to suffer from your husband having an affair.

However, I also believe that it happened because HE perceived the woman to be meeting some of his emotional needs that you weren't. I believe he broke it off and is focusing on you now because he really wants YOU to meet those needs. Of course you have needs, too, but he seems receptive to trying to meet them if he can figure out what they are.

For myself, I know that I haven't always stated my needs as requests - I've tended to phrase them as sort of "requirements" to keep me, and I can see how that might have felt threatening to my husband, as if I'm saying, "do it, or else." Of course I didn't mean to come off that way, but I certainly wasn't making a focused effort to make sure I worded my requests tenderly, as ways he can help me. I'll be trying that, once he gets to a point where he wants to meet my needs again.

There are so many excellent articles on this website. Perhaps you and your husband could start with "Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts," then the questionnaires, then delve deeper as you're ready.

I don't know whether I can be of any help to you, but I want you to know that at least there's someone out here rooting for your success, and believing you can make it together!

I would say to not do anything without your husband's enthusiastic agreement (Policy of Joint Agreement); therefore, you won't be able to move out. But staying and working on your marriage will ultimately bring you far more in terms of love and happiness than moving out ever could. And, your children will benefit from seeing their parents learning to model real love and agreement in marriage.

I will be cheering for you!

Hello. I have read your postings and was touched. I have gone through a similar situation, however, in your husband's shoes. My wife has the same feelings as you do. We have been seperated for 1 1/2 yrs and I have attempted to demonstrate change and commitment. In September, she stated she loves me as a person, enjoys my company and sees me as a friend now, but doesn't have "those" feelings for me anymore and wanted to divorce. She still has not filed. We continued to date and she allowed me to be somewhat affectionate over the months, but continues to state she only sees me as a friend. I'm not sure where we are going to end up, I can only pray now. I have learned that people often push away or deny their true feelings as a way to protect themselves. When a person focuses on all the attributes of another as negative, when those same attributes were once positive, they almost talk themselves into believing they are no longer compatible and the affair becomes just another example as to what would happen in the future because of that incompatiblilty. However, at one point, those attributes were the very thing that drew two people together. I strongly believe Love is a choice and it takes less energy and is more rewarding to work on a marriage and build it up then let it go and deal with the aftermath of a divorce and then getting yourself together to date again and attempting to find someone out there that matches what you want. In a lot of cases, what you want is right in front of you, it just takes time to peel away all the rotten layers of the person or situation. But to me it is well worth the journey. That is just my opinion so I know others might feel differently. I wish you the best and will be praying for you.

Danny, I feel exactly like your wife. I continue to think my H is a good guy who made a bad mistake...for a whole year. I enjoy him and do love him, but as a friend. The love is gone and after a year of working on this together, MC, IC, books, retreats, etc, it hasn't come back. I know that a lot of couples work through infidelity, but I also know a lot of couples cannot. I fear we may be one of those couples as I have not, in a whole year, been able to look at my H the same. It pains me deeply. I would love to love him again like I used to. I used to be so happy.

I wish I knew the magic formula to be able to look at him like I used to with such love, respect, admiration. I have tried to ask Jesus to let me see my H through his eyes, alas, I have not been able. Most of the time, I can't even look him in the eyes.

My H has gone out of his way to make me feel special and nothing seems to work. I think what made me feel special (even during the late nights that he worked and did other things) was the fact that I believed me and our vows were sacred to him. I believed I was good enough to keep him from straying. I believed he only had eyes for me. Now that feeling is gone and no matter what he does, I do not feel special to him anymore. How could I? He let a nothing OW occupy him and abandon his family for a year. If she, a nothing with few if any redeem qualities could win his heart, how can I feel special in his eyes again?

I really think I am ready for at least a seperation.

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I understand. what you need to remember is that it could have been her or any other woman. No one took his eyes off of you, that person just destracted him. While I know it's difficult to understand as the lies topple each other, it almost becomes an addiction where a person is affraid of loosing the one thing that fullfills whatever need he/she believes is not being met. I truely have a difficult time believing that "loving" feelings go after being in a marriage where it resorts to just friends. You say you were good enough to keep him from straying, however, it really isn't about you but rather how you both interact with each other. It takes a long time to rebuild trust, but if there is a foundation of friendship there use that to rebuild those loving feelings. One book I have read which is very helpful to understand how things break down is the Five Love Languages. It talks about how a person can believe they are meeting the needs of another, but from their eyes, not that person. Unti my affair came out I truely thought I was meeting her needs up until my A started, but I found out she had been unhappy for a lot longer. I can't convince you or anyone for that matter how to feel or act. That has to come from within. One thing you might want to ask is why have you stayed for a year to see if your feelings were going to come back and how has your relationship improved in the past year. I bet you are at a point with him that you didn't think was even possible a year ago. From my point, my wife has done a lot of hurtful things over the past 1 1/2 years whether intended or for protection. However, I choose to give her unconditional love and realize everyone is human and makes mistakes. That was actually the one thing she attempted to teach me for the past 7 years was the concept of unconditional love. I know it might be splitting hairs, but you talk about wedding vows. i believe people now adays say those vows without really thinking aobut how difficult it is to follow through for 50-80 years and what those vows truely mean. Yes he broke a vow to be faithful. But you also both took the vows to love each other in sickness and in health in good times and bad til death due you part. You could both continue to follow those vows and renew your vows together. The sad thing is infidelity damages 50% of marriages and most, from what I have discovered, don't see a problem with what they have done or won't or arn't able to make ammends or changes. I believe if both people take responsiblity for what led up to the affair and the WS takes responsibility for their choice, they can work together on rebuilding a stronger marriage than ever before with the realization that they know how to protect their marriage in the future and they can weather and issues that come up in the future...provided its not infidelity. But i am assuming if he spent the past year attempting to work on his marriage, that will not happen again. My situation might be slightly different because my wife actually appears to enjoy some affection from me and she was the one who intiated to keep a friendship and see where it goes several months ago. I think she still has feelings, she is just very very scared to commit. I have learned it could take up to 5-6 years to fully recover form an affair. I have learned at least for us it has gone on 1 1/2 years and will go on for some time if she chooses not to divorce. Another book that might be helpful is After the Affair. I hope this helps.

I am on the other side of the coin. I have been married for 10 years to the love of my life. I discovered six years ago he had a porno addition. It was terrible, and when I compared his use on the computer to my daytimer I realized how serios it was. He said he would quit, he said he would get cousiling I told him I would support him. He seemingly quit for some time but it would creep up again,and then I would find out it had been happening the entire time. Anyway you can imagine trust was broken, my self esteem went to pot as he was not only Physically removed, but emotionally removed. I reached out and said I know you hate this conversation but I am here to support you through this. Let me be your support. Lets keep our beautiful family together. (Ihave a daughter who is 6) Anyway we moved from San Francisco to Hawaii with hopes of a brand new start - great job, house, moving expense etc. With the intention on being committed to family and the path to healing. Finally after only 3 months, it showed up again, and had not in fact stopped. The impact on my daughter was to wake up hearing him say disuting things in his sleep due to his recent on line adventures and drinking.

At this point I had a business trip to go on in my home town for two weeks, I of course had my daughter with me. Realizing I had a support system and had to do something I called and said if you are not going to get help, I am not coming back. He then screamed and was in denial of the problem, and called me every name in the book. Two weeks later he said he bought a book on the addition and read it and said his life had changed. I said great start but I imagine if you have had this addition longer than I have know you it stands to reason there is a lot of work to be done.
Flash forward - he loves the fact that I am gone,he tells me a weight has lifted he is a better man and he doesn't want us anymore. I don't believe him. I believe I know him and he doesn't mean this. I believe it is easier for him to tell his friends and family that his wife left him, and took his daughter because he "wasn't always the nicest guy" as he puts it. Than to aknowledge the pain and potential harm that was in our lives. He has no reflection of us and our life as a family as all of our friends and co-workers who have known us ten plus years live in S.F. - He is drinking and partying - he even got a hot little girlfriend for a while. It has been 3 months since I have been apart from him. I don't know how to reach him. I tell him no matter all this self destructive behavior, that I know who he is, and I beleive if he is committed to the family, cousiling etc. We can overcome all of this. He says he has no emotional energy for us and he needs to focus on himself. That would be great if it wasn't getting laid, drinking, laying out at the beach and spending money on parties and entertaining. I feel that this is a phase and maybe he is angry and testing my love. I have no idea. But I am committed to the married with the criterial that we both go to counsiling and profess our commitment to each other and family. Maybe I am posting this in the wrong place. I just read that he was loving and reaching out and you were so hurt and in protective mode that the towl could be thrown in. I hope to stick it out a few months and hope he seeing how beautiful he is and how special his family is.

Hi Everybody,

Just a quick update. My H and I had a very necessary, very deep talk last night. It was helpful. We communicated effectively and that helps sooooooo much.

I am willing to stay and not seperate, but for now. Heart to heart talks are good, but they need to be followed up by action and really in our case, they need to be followed up by more heart to heart talks. So we will see what happens. Thank you all for your encouragement.

TraciLou, I have no advice for you. Thank you for sharing the very downside of making a decision to separate. I do understand why you left in the first place, though springing it on him the way you did may not have been the best way to handle it. In my case I feel personally, if I would have left my H and seen that kind of behavior I would have known it was the right thing to do and I would have gotten out completely. All I can do is wish you well.

I will keep you all posted with our progress. Thanks and good luck to you all!
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I'm very happy for you. I guess it always takes work, but it is worth it!

Remember the Policy of Joint Agreement, to ensure that neither of you is able to slip into Giver or Taker mode, either not caring about your own needs or not caring about the other's needs.

When we are hurt, it is very tempting to try to make the other person do most of the work, or "prove" something to us, and forget that it is ALWAYS a two-person job to meet each other's needs - marriage can't survive and thrive unless you both continue giving in ways that are healthy for both of you.

I wish you well, and hope for a restoration of love, trust, and happiness for both you and your husband.

Thank you. Despite my desire to continue to work on this I intend to stop MC. I feel it has become a crutch in our marriage. Instead of discussing things we wait till she is there. It's been a year. I'm tired of that. My H thinks it shows that I am not committed anymore. I'm just ready to stand up on my own 2 feet and do this myself. Policy of Joint agreement? What do we do about this?
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Tomorrow I meet with the MC for the last time and I intend to discuss seperation very seriously. That 1 great talk we had in a whole year since the A, went right back to the way things were before. After a discussion (if you can call it that) last night things returned to "normal" (if you can call it that). I told him how I felt after he begged me to tell him because something triggered and made me cry. He sat there, like talking to a wall. Then when I asked if he had any comment to my story, it was anger then defeat then back to talking to a wall.

So now I will really talk to the walls because at least they don't get angry, act defeated or try to level the playing field by pointing out (minor) sins I do in anger. Like the consquences are the same.

He comes from a family that doesn't talk. He wants to continue living that way. I don't. So now we need time apart to decide who if either of us is going to give.

I appreciate prayers as I know this will not be easy. But after a year of MC and don't know what else to do.

thanks
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Godhelpme2,

I remember seeing your post on the recovery forum a month or two ago stating that your H quit his job where FOW worked. I was just wondering whether that may have anything to do with what you are going through right now. Whether lack of NC is your choice or not I do believe it has an affect on all of us BS's and WS's. Then once NC is established it frees all of us for lack of a better way to describe it.

I'm sorry I am having such a hard time getting my thoughts out. I guess what I'm attempting to say is that even though you've been recovering for that last year, maybe now that NC is occurring now the "true" personal recovery of Godhelpme2 can begin which may in turn have an affect on the true R of the M.

Take care,
fG

Edited to change a typo

It is really hard for those of us who don't know all the abbreviated terms to understand some of these posts.

BS, bw, bh = betrayed spouse, betrayed wife, betrayed husband
WS, WW, WH = wayward spouse, wayward wife, wayward husband
OW, OM, OP = other woman, other man, other person
OC = other child - (resulting from affair)
EN = emotional need
A = affair
D = divorce
STBX = soon to be ex
SF = sexual fulfilment
RC = recreactional companionship
EA = emotional affair
PA = physical affair
D = divorce
HNHN = His Needs, Her Needs (Harley book)
That's all I could remember for now.

Sorry ablocke,

NC = No Contact
FOW = Former Other Woman
R = Recovery
M = Marriage

Bellevue got the rest. In the "Just Found Out" forum there is a post that explains the abbreviations.

FrozenGhost, you are right. That is me. My H has been gone about 2 months now. I feel relief and sorrow as I loved his job.

MC yesterday did not go well. My MC who I love told me that I have not forgiven my H or at least not forgiven him "the right way." She sees my desire to talk all the time as not forgiving as though it never happened which is what the Bible calls us to do.

So I admitted defeat. I told her that she was right. I have failed. I failed to keep my H out of the arms of OW for a year, I failed to "create the environment" that would not allow an A, I failed to distrust my H earlier so his A would not have gone on for a whole year. Now I have failed to forgive "properly", I have failed to do as the Lord calls me to do, I have failed to piece back my marriage and broken heart so we can move forward. I have failed my H by not being good enough to not be cheated on, I have failed my parents, by having the horrible kind of marriage they had, I have failed my Lord because I have not forgiven like I'm supposed to, I have failed my children because I have not given them the kind of family they deserve and most of all, I have failed myself. I have not been able to accomplish my dream of having a happy family. I never wanted the kind of marriage my parents had, and I am repeating the vicious cycle. There, I have said it..."I AM A FAILURE!"

Now, I would like to go on with my life. Do we seperate? My MC tried to talk me out of it. Last night after I cried for awhile and told him how much I was hurting, he feel asleep while holding me while I cried. I turned on the light and told him "That is why I don't see the point in staying together. I am crying and hurting and you fall asleep on me." He tried to fix it by being very attentive after that. We talked for awhile.

I am at a loss. Still very unhappy.
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Thanks!

:-)

Hello again, I posted a "thank you" response to this yesterday, and it showed up on my screen...but it seems to have disappeared. So -- Thank You!

:-) ablocke