Well, it depends on what your thinking is.

I was in a similar situation awhile back. XBF was giving me the "don't have enough to give / can't keep you happy" stuff. Couldn't deal with the pressure from me. Well, I thought he was a good guy who had potential.

So what I did was put him on the back burner. Didn't burn any bridges. Kept the relationship with him on the slow path. Meanwhile started exploring some other options.

Yep -- I was one of those MULTIPLE daters! Gosh that was lots of fun. Worked for me.

And I happened to meet new BF during that time. That was one of those "you just KNOW" moments. And bummer for XBF, he found himself left out.

Just because a FEMALE has kids and can juggle working, dating and the kids doesn't mean a MALE can...remember we are wired differently than they are.

I think he's just new to dating again and needs time to work it out. It's a shame you have to be his first since the divorce and will have to show him how to juggle everything...make suggestions, tell him how his decisions make you feel...I say give him another try after this major email and see if he changes...he may end up like J did for me and not change or he may do a 180...only time will tell..IF YOU are willing to stick it out. The decision is yours hon!

Yeah, I've dated SO many dudes, it's crazy. Normally, I "cut bait" as one of them put it soon, because I'm pretty sure of what I want in a man and am not going to waste my time. My problem here is... AM I wasting my time? I do like so many things about him and wonder, if it just keeps going slow, is that okay with me? The answer is both yes and no.
I was doing okay, until he sends me that message that says he wants me, then no follow through...so that's where my inpatience snuck in on me again and wanting to know where I stand.
I'll post his/my other email today:
He answered the questions in my email, so hopefully it's not too confusing!


>Ever thought of going into politics?! ; )
>
>
Yes I have - for a lot of reasons. Keep in mind sometimes
my "consultant speak" slips in when I am rambling (lame
excuse but it's all I have).

>Define what your message meant on Friday?
>
>
Define what you mean by "mean"? (Sorry couldn't resist after
the politician question....)

It meant exactly what it said - I want you, in my life, with me
(obviously if it works for both of us), etc.......

>Define what it is that you are looking for?
>
Someone I can grow old with (fighting it every step of the way),
someone who will help me make a better "me" out of the "me" I
am now, someone who will not "hold in" the things like this that
bother them about me, someone who understands I am and will
always be a "work in progress".

> A relationship?
>
Yes.

>If so, what does
>that mean to you right now?
>
Honestly - I am trying to figure that out - like I said "new ground".
See above.

> What does that mean to you in the long run, should
>things continue to develop in a good way?
>
>
Lots of things - but in this context for what I think what you are asking
it means we'll be "together" - a big part of each other's lives (I'd say
biggest, but there are kiddos in the mix), and our understanding of and
for each other will continue to grow, I want the "fairy tale" thing - and I
am struggling with my cynicism to convince myself it's still out there
for me.

>I need more info to decide what *I* want, and what I'm willing to live with.
>You KNOW I understand your kids, job, etc. What has changed since you have
>come to the conclusion you "want me"?
>
Nothing - but part of what I "want" is for YOU to be happy, comfortable
etc. - I want Della to be Della - I'd just like it to be next to me,helping
me be me (or a better version of me).

>And what does that mean-in what way are
>you talking? What is it about me that brought you to that conclusion?
>
>
Because you help me see who I am - and most of the time I feel
good about that. And you help me see the parts of me and my
behavior that AREN'T what they should be - without blaming, etc
and that helps me figure out what they mean and how to address
them.

>Can you address what I said about trusting you?
>
>
No - but I do understand how things must "look" from your perspective.
I am who I am - and if I was trying to "hide" something I would be a LOT
"smoother" about it than this. I think (with my life) the time to be
concerned
would be when things went exactly as advertised/planned/etc for any length
of time. But that's just me.

>IF you are dating others, do you feel you need to not tell me that?
>
>
Nope - and if I was you'd know.

>I'm trying to understand what's going on with you and where you are with ME. I
>feel I'm on the threshold of a decision that I need to make and want all the
>facts. When I walk, I walk. On the other hand, I don't want to make a harsh
>decision that may haunt me.
>
>

All I can say is - I'm trying - this is new ground and I am finding my
way over it.

>A few facts from my point of view:
>Friday- you know my mom is always home, or a note could have been left.
>
>
Agreed - but by the time I realized it was apparently unretrievable I had
(unknowingly) been "out of contact" for close to 4 hours - I needed to
track down the boys. And doing notes, or "stalking" type behavior by
someone who looks like me is NOT a good idea at midnight.

>Saturday- when I texted you to tell you everyone was gone you were "working",
>this was before the deal with DS.
>
I decided to "use" the time I had Saturday night to play catch up - your
message caught me with about an hour left with what I was doing. I
didn't expect to hear from you until after 10:00. Bad planning on my
part..... but in my defense - that is my life. I am no good at sitting and
not "doing" something - especially when all three boys are off doing their
own things (or with their mothers or whatever). Sitting alone in my house
is NOT a good thing for me right now.

> If, indeed, you were wanting to hook up, why
>were you at work and telling me you would be for another hour?
>
You just caught me at a spot where that's about how long it would
take for me to finish up and get anywhere - again bad planning on
my part. That is the part of my life I have to work at "cleaning up"
or simplifying - because it (now) impacts more than just me.

> Then this
>morning you are saying it's going to be a long week... was your work on
>Saturday for naught?
>
>
Nope - it cut a 75 hour week to a 45 or 50 hour week. A good thing.
But I have the cat to pick up/nurse along, all three boys with me, and
DS F-up from the other night to clean up. The 25-30 hours I picked
up have all been taken back away.

Did the help? Make it worse? Or have I been elected mayor?

I liked lex's last post.

I think he's into, Drita. Just trying to figure everying out, just like we all are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What do you want, that he's not giving you? We know, kisses. What else? He gave you some answers that you were wanting. What else?

Drita, I agree w/ AGE.....I didn't read anything bad in the email. He just sounds like a guy who's newly divorced and figuring out how to be a single dad and juggle a busy career. To me it sounds like he's into you, but it's possible he needs to get himself and his life in order before he dates you or anyone. You have to decide if you are willing to hang around for all that. I dunno Drita, you are in a good place and I think you need to be w/ someone who's got it a little more together and can really devote time to you. I think he wants to, but is just doing a very poor job of it right now. JMVHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"events sometimes (and in my life quite often) conspire to prevent even the best intentions from being fulfilled."

This is a great BIG red flag for me. I would look for someone else.

Oh, Newly, I wanted to address your post.
I don't know if I understand what you meant by it, and I don't know if you know that I personally don't have any children (that I know of!) but I TOTALLY understand the chaos children bring into it all...
I was married to a man with one and so I know all of that, and I guess that MAY be part of my problem, and why I won't/don't want to meet the kids yet. I don't want to drag them into something unless it REALLY is something that is going to be pursued. I don't believe parents should parade their children before several possible suitors (this is just my opinion!) I LOVE kids and know it's a package deal, but if it doesn't work out (which is always a chance everyone takes) I not only lose my beau, but the kids that I've inevitably fell in love with because I normally get along with them so well... It breaks my heart, so as long as parents are smart about who they are dealing with, sometimes it might be an advantage... I mean, no joining families, and I have more time if and when it comes to that to help out with them...

Drita, I posted that to the wrong conversation. But it does say something. Being sexist here, men without kids have a hard time getting it. Women are by nature flexible and can roll with the punches more. I think someone had it right in that it seems far easier for women to juggle it all, than it is for men.
And for those of us dating, we know we still need our "me" or down time.
I don't know about this sitch. I see red flags, and say that if he was "into" you, he'd make time for you (after kids).
I think men have a different view of this. My BF at work doesn't make time for his family and doesn't get that's it is important and that it is driving his wife crazy. This, despite attending an MB seminar with his wife (my good friend). So, I wonder if it isn't in the programming somewhere. We can do more, and do "do" more than many men are capable of doing.

Also note that with all there is to do, many of us have not gone running into the dating world and all the chaos it brings.

Good luck. With all we've learned here, we are bound to make better choices.

Hon it's all a matter of what you are willing or able to deal with. I don't see anything wrong..but only YOU can decide what you can deal with. He sounds sincere to me. Have you said anything to him about the kissing thing??

I have been divorced for a while now (11 yrs.) and have dated men with and without children (I have 2). I have found that dating men that have children and have actually raised them seem to relate to me better and vice versa. I didn't read anything really bad in his emails to you, it just seems like he makes a lot of excuses for his choices/behavior/life instead of stepping up and taking steps to change his situation. He needs to manage his time better, obviously, and that will take him making some mistakes along the way. I think this comes down to what you want and if you think this guy has enough good qualities for you to hang in there for the person he may turn out to be when he gets all of his chinks worked out. I know for a fact that being a good mother, daughter, friend, employee, housekeeper, cook, etc. etc. was very trying for me and I had to learn to juggle all of that PLUS go out on dates and try to weed out the acceptable from the unacceptable. I have taken sabbaticals from dating several times because it was just too much trouble and not worth the few good times I had along the way.

Since you don't have children, maybe you should stick with dating men that don't have children, that way you are both on the same playing field. I have known people that do this. My sons are grown now and I don't date men that have young children. I don't even get it started because I've been there and done that and I don't want to deal with someone else's young child and go through all that all over again. So I nip it in the bud before my heart gets involved. With this said, am I limiting myself when the pool of good available men my age is so small? Absolutely. But I know what I want and I know what I don't want. Maybe you need to sit down and write out pros and cons and stick with your list.

I hope this helps.

Good advice TB

It IS good advice, TB, and everyone, I thank you all for your input! I'm so glad to have this board and you all to give me good, honest advice.
I told him I need some time. I've got a busy week, and so does he. I'm going out of town this weekend to hang out with some of KC galpals whom I LOVE and look forward to seeing!
So, I figure in this time I'll make that list, of HIM, because I have a list of things I want in a man, and maybe I should pull that out too.
I DO get the kid thing and realize what I'm facing should I continue this. With those kids comes XW's, which is a whole 'nother bag o luggage! I don't have anything like that since I have no kids. There is definitely a trade off of sorts for me AND him. But I certainly would have more to lose in that if I continue and kids get involved...
I'm rambling!
I think this will also be good -asking him for time to think- to see if he can respect that boundary!
I'm not one to "test", i.e., walk away to see what he will do. I honestly think that's game playing, but I can take a break to evaluate what *I* want.
Like I said, I've been through MANY men (that doesn't sound good, does it?!) and he's up there as far as how we get along, what we enjoy to do together, he's a gentleman, and as you can see, willing to listen to what I have to say and make changes where he feels he needs to.
So THANK YOU ALL AGAIN! I REALLY appreciate your wisdom and experience!

I think it sounds like a good plan Drita!

Enjoy your girl time, sounds like a good time.

Of course, we will be waiting to hear how things are going.

Karona

I think it sounds like a plan too!

Question: Is he a fixer-upper? or... if he's not, are you sortof comfortable with him because he's not ready, and you feel like *you* can be the one to help him through this "new stage of life" and ... through your patience and love ... ya'll will work out anyway?

or...

would you rather keep looking elsewhere for someone who's ready to date... ready to give... a whole, happy, confident, giving, strong man?

Hey Faith,
I don't think he's a "fixer-upper" (that's why I like him!) He's a good communicator, knows himself, and I think MAY be just entering a new phase of his life. We've talked about where he is emotionally on the whole divorce issue and he feels he's more stable than most, however, I think the recent events probably disproves that!!
One thing I've been thinking about, is that when I asked him what he likes about me (see email above), it's all about HIM and how *I* make HIM feel. Can't say I like that...was looking for what qualities about me he likes, why ME?
Right now, with everything else going on, I'm not interested in seein anyone else, even if he leaves the picture. I'm somewhat burned out on dating (I go through phases) and I don't have an interest in anyone else. I compare them to him. I also think he is a whole, happy, confident, giving, strong man, but maybe struggling with where I fit in all of it. I know he would like me to be integrated into his life, but I'm not willing to do that until I feel a little more secure in the relationship-regarding the kids and my involvement with them. He says it's "no big deal", that he has lots of friends that they meet and they would think nothing of it. I told him I want to be a big deal... but understand that the "friend" thing is a good approach. There is a group of his friends that all meet every Friday for lunch, and I will probably just do that...IF I decide I'm "in" this.

Does this all make sense? To sum, I'm not interested in anyone else, don't want to meet anyone else, I like him and don't see much I DON'T like about him. So, I guess I'm just thinking of giving it some time, but still have some thinking to do AND READING my books, and hoping they will scream out what I need to hear! (although you all have done a terrific jop of that!)
I'm also feeling like with all that's going on with me (going to be unemployed, health stuff, etc) that I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want anyone to have to bear the burden I may have...ya know?!

One book that I've read that has been a tremendous help in weeding out the unacceptable guys (which has obviously been everyone so far)is called "Are You the One For Me?" by Barbara DeAngelis. Another good book is "What Smart Women Know."

One thing I've noticed about myself is that I like to "fix" men. I meet a man that has issues and I try to "fix" him until he becomes the man that I see potentially (this has never actually happened). I have to really concentrate on not trying to fix anyone. It's very hard for me. I really do want a man that is financially/emotionally/ physically at least as healthy as me. Someone that is newly divorced is probably not going to be at my level. It's taken me years to get here and I expect most newly divorced people will experience the same thing.

Your guy sounds like a nice man, he just needs to find his comfort zone in the new life situation he finds himself in. An adjustment period is certainly called for here. If you find that he is mostly acceptable (do a pro and con list about him specifically), then he might be worth hanging in there for. If not, then definitely move on and don't waste a lot of time second-guessing yourself.

I suspect that he's doing a little "surveying" trying out some responses and seeing what he gets in return---he's not being honest, that's for darn sure, but, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he may not know HOW to be honest. (He sounds pretty insecure to me, and insecure men don't like to take ownership of their feelings.)

There seems to be a lot of arrogance in his email. (You couldn't POSSIBLY understand his life because you aren't "in" it with him; his children require so much time, etc...etc...etc...)But it may be fear-based arrogance...

I think he's waffling...maybe he isn't ready to date, maybe he's scared, maybe he's just a plain ole nut.

I wouldn't put him at the top of your list these days, but if you're interested in a psychology project, he could be an interesting study!