After many good days of no LB'ing, and NC w/my WH, my day has been spent full of LB'ing via phone with him. I called him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He's been telling me over and over again that he's done with me and wants out. I've been sitting foolishly praying that something could lighten up in his heart and through my plan A, he'd get a taste of what we once were.

I think his heart is so filled with poison towards me that we're truly done. When we talk he tells me I need to face the facts of how I made too many mistakes in our relationship and ran out of time as far as he's concerned. That my 'seeing the light' and ending my A were just too late. He's now in his own A at work.

I'm tired of the excuses the pointed blame to make him feel better that he's now in his own A. If he wants the D then do it. I asked why he's just sitting there waiting, the response, he just has to be ready to do it. I know, there's no concern on his end for me, or the effect it has on me, why postpone the inevitable while he sits and has his A, he is just 'not ready' to face the D.

My heart and mind do not want the D, I sit and pray every night that I could have a successful plan A. And every time we talk I just get the 'I'm done' 'I left you' 'I don't want you anymore' over and over. I am having a rough day after all this, telling myself to just let him go. I want to work on it, want it very badly, but cannot take the blame over and over again. He's not capable of seeing his own mistakes, just mine, and wants to take the easy way out. Wants the clean slate, 'moving on' with someone that just 'works', just 'clicks'.

My heart feels like someone's ripped it completely out of my body, and thrown it out to watch me suffer.

He asked if I write on the MB site. He once read it and wrote on it, and throws it in my face how he once did Plan A and Plan B and that I shouldn't bother trying it. THat it's just too late. I don't know if it's my Plan A that made him delay moving forward with the D, or if it was his own 'being ready to face it'....I don't know. Lost hope today though.

sad,

You had an A first and did a lot of serious damage for which you have not yet made amends. You may or may not get that chance.

I think you need to look at Plan A as a sort of therapy and a new way of life. A lot of plan A is taking a critical, microscopic view of your own character and doing a lot of hard work to improve it. Why did the affair happen? What are your needs, what are your weaknesses? What can you do to protect yourself from failing and falling in the future? What can you do to improve your integrity, your kindness, your compassion? Your plan A should put you on more solid honest ground with yourself and if done really well, you should be able to look yourself straight in the face in the mirror and know that you have an honest good-hearted woman in front of you.

No, it is not o.k. that your H is now involved in his own affair ... but you are the one that broke the vows. Are you really entitled to expect anything at all of him?

I'd recommend continuing plan A, but with the focus on improving you until you feel truly worthy for a deep and committed relationship.

As he told me he was 'done' with me in the spring, I floundered and found comfort from the A for a few months. I hit this major reality check right before my WH and my wedding anniversary, and I ended the A. All summer long I felt so wrong about the A, I wanted my H back.

I stopped the A, and practically begged my WH to consider trying 'us' again. He now laughs at me and my doing so...says it just showed how weak my character was. How could I be pleading for his love again, while I was with someone else. I understand his confusion, but by that time as well, my H was now a WH. So he was judging my actions, while he was doing his own wrongdoing. So complicated. So now, whenever we argue, because we keep going around and around and around, as I say to him, I know that we never succeeded before because I had someone else in my heart and mind. He tells me it's too late, he's done. I understand this. Unfortunately, I felt it once. I guess I came around it though, did alot of self-analysis, and being Christian, play in the back of my head, treat him as I would want to be treated...basic concepts we were taught for so long. I want to continue with Plan A. He's just now promising I'll get the SA and lawyer's information soon enough. D has been a threat between us for 5 years. So he's comfortable telling me I'm foolish for thinking he was always going to be around.

Now, after 4 months of Plan A'ing myself, i try sooo hard to just back away from him, let him see the positive parts of me and my heart. His response continues to be, he's moving on. I feel like I'm a stronger person, I know why I had my As (ugh, 2 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> both i regret). I wish my WH could see that I do not want that M again, not the way it was. Not again. I want a new agreement, the ability to Plan A all the time, that's what made us work as a couple to begin with. sorry, going on and on..... : (

sad,

I am so sorry, and truly, despite the 2x4 and being a faitful BS, I do feel compassion for you and your situation. You do have some penance to do though... 2 affairs? How long were each (including the emotional lead time)? If I were you, I would not even consider doing a plan A for a shorter period of time that your EAs and PAs lasted.

lost,

My As together, were well over a year's time (not at the same time). Plan A'ing for myself I think will be an ongoing plan for me always. Not for him. I want to be a better, happier person in general.

I am plan A'ing for 'us' while challenged by unsupportive IL's, to the degree that my MIL never wanted us to get married to begin with (we were young), friends that all say you need to get divorced to ever work through this, and my WH being full of bitterness and resentment. He has gone as far as telling me that SH told him to seek a divorce and see other people while we are separated, that he should move on.

:\ He claims he is no longer reading the MB site, but did ask if I'm writing on it. Wouldn't be surprised now if he spends his time looking for my posts to see what I've said. It's like we just keep pushing each other's buttons. Too stubborn to put aside the anger, and see the core of us, and what can be rebuilt, or better, instead his solution is just get a D. : \ ugh, I wish I never called him.

What is your H's MB name?

Hold this thought in your heart and know that your MB friends are supporting you.

Hang in there. YOU are worth it.

Pepper,
He wrote 2 years ago, I am somewhat reluctant to say his MB name, in the event that he does come back on the board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> On top of that, many of the MB folks that responded to him thought I was some sort of psycho for what I had done, or at least how he explained I was behaving at the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It was very painful to read the posts of those responding to him, I've tried to rise above it, part of my Plan A, I was ashamed for what I had done. :\ And it was 2 years ago when he posted, he's completely left the mind of wanting this marriage to work out. He's on a mission now to prove to everyone around him and himself that he can do the D.

Pepper,
Alright, search the userid Karl. I just re-read some of it, and it's still hard to read.

When you read it, you'll see it started back in 2001. That's when he found out about my 1st (EA/PA). It continued through last year. Long story short, my WH and I were living in 2 cities, my A happened while I was away for work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I got so attached to the OM I did not know how to get out, I was too far in, too many people being hurt, I really didn't know how to get out. Over the years of it all, my conscience killed me, I was not happy, I became quite miserable knowing that all while I was with the OM, I had my H in my mind and heart, and would go home on weekends and struggle to have an ounce of a normal M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I was messed up, yes. I was not psycho. I had feelings for 2 people, and made my life, my H's life and the OM's life a mess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, ya'll can read the history behind this.

As reluctant as I am to reveal all of it, I somehow feel better sharing. :\ Thanks to all though, I am realizing I can find strength through honesty.

sad

Sad,

"" I am realizing I can find strength through honesty.""

And the TRUTH will set you free!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

OK ... why?

I read some of Karl's old posts ....What you were doing was more than the average affair .... you were living a completely double life! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Have you been getting therapy?

What makes you ready to be a married woman now?

Pepper, as I said I am not proud that I lived with the OM for years. There are many details left out of the posts.

Previous to my having an A, we had issues. None of which are excuses for my bad decision. I'm not here to make excuses for my behavior. I've come to face that I was weak when I first got into the A. I was in a big city, knew no one, and didn't feel like my H really cared, we had competitiveness, lack of respect, resentment....other issues going on. At the time I thought my H's main priority was his job. We were getting ready to move to another state for his job. I was not happy about it, I have always wanted to live closer to my family, as where we were moving was another place where we knew no one. I just wasn't happy about it and made the process difficult. I went off to another city, to work during the week for my job. I felt liek I needed to prove to him that I could be just as successful as he was at the time.

That spawned the A opportunity. I sat and told the OM (client at the time) about our relationship, and my unhappiness. I remember him almost playing into it all, I'd complain about not feeling important, or like a priority, all of my issues, and he filled every one of them, through his interest in me, wanting to just talk, learn about me, I was getting my EN filled by a stranger, and I ended up falling deeper and deeper into it. It went on for years, yes. I would go home on weekends, and see my H unhappiness. After he found out about the A, I never let go of the OM, my feelings for him, the addiction. That was where I went wrong. I never let him go, and never fully 100% committed back to my M. I acted like I was, tried to convince myself that I could, I just did not know how to end it with the OM, and was not reading MB at the time. I wish I had.

After 4 years of it, I became miserable with myself, unhappy with my behavior, unhappy with my marriage, I sooooo badly wanted a happy marriage, a family of my own, a house. The dream. Last year, my H wanted me to travel home with him to visit his family. His family had so much anger towards me, he wanted me to face the music with them, he told them what I had done, living with the OM for so long,and all the details of it.

So I went with him, after quite a struggle literally at the airport. What I faced was a MIL full of anger and judgement, a SIL full of anger and judgement, and a somewhat understanding FIL (lawyer). It was horrible, absolutely horrible. So much to the point that my MIL said she always thought I was too immature to get married (I was 23, he was 24) and that we shouldn't have gotten married. The support was not there from them throughout the entire marriage. They live over 2000 miles away, and had very little involvement in our relationship. They only knew of my H's unhappiness, whenever he would share with them. I was angry that my H just sat me in this room, and did not defend me at all, not at all. I was angry because they were never involved in our relationship, and yet here they were judging me to ****** for what I'd done. It was the hardest thing I ever faced. Next to my impending D of course.

Since then, we did have somewhat of a recovery. Unfortunately, I remember arguments that we had would always circle back to I'm the one that had the affair, I felt like I took the blame for everything, every argument opened the opportunity for him to remind me of my A. I had not ended it with the OM, I was still holding on, but getting closer to letting him go at the same time. Early this Spring my H and I took a short vacation. I felt like it was time to completely let go of the OM. I wanted to end it, I saw so many things in my H on our vacation that I wanted it all back and knew I had to end it. So I did.

I moved out of the OM's. Got my own apt. I had left my job and gone to a new one, and while there, realized that I was talking to an old co-worker from my last job way too much. We were sort of counseling each other. I didn't really think much about it, and one night went out for drinks with my old coworkers. After everyone left, I hung out with him, and we talked for a few more hours. The next night we got together again, and we hugged, and I could just hear my H accusing me of having another A. Long story short, my H found a card from teh coworker, and went nuts. Accused me of having another A, which at that exact point I was not. And down we went again, down for the count. Trust was gone, everything was gone, we were back to ground zero.

My H told me he wanted out. And so I spent time with this OM over summer. I didn't feel right about it, I did feel that it was nice feeling a clean slate, not being judged or yelled at, just loved for me, I felt sort of dead emotionally by the middle of summer, close to August. My H and my anniversary was coming, and my heart was telling me to get the ****** out of this new relationship and do what I had to do to work it out with my H. By this time my H was having his own A with his coworker.

My fog lifted, by September. I was tired of the lies, the fake life, all the hurt, hurting others, hurting myself, all of it. I just wanted it to end. I got my own apartment, and started to read this site again. I watch a preacher on tv, and strangely have found so much strength in myself throuh reading his book and reading this site. My H doubts that I can change, or have changed. And when we talk now, which I always initiate, we argue...it's awful. I LB, he LB's and then he throws the MB principles in my face. Telling me he's not doing a plan A, not doing a plan B, and how Steve even told him to leave me. I'm sure he may have after the previous posts.

I can't change what I did. I can only change who I am today and tomorrow. I refuse to spend more time arguing over my faults. I want to be happy again. I'm trying to do things that I always enjoyed doing before any of this started. I am finding myself all over again, and pray that my H would one day want to rediscover me as well. Instead, I am constantly reminded that my actions and my fog lifting was just all too late. I know, it was ridiculous, but it did lift. I feel so much better being able to admit my faults, and come to terms with it all. And yes, I am getting IC. I told my C that my H's counselor supposedly encouraged him to go out and date while we're apart, they nearly fell off their chair. So I also believe, that my H is not being encouraged by anyone to even consider me as his wife for another day.

Anyway, sorry this is sooooo long. Trying to give you an idea of what was going on, hard to put 5 years of it all into a post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> There's so much more that I felt and went through, and see, it's just difficult to write it all out.

I apologize to all of the posters here, who have been betrayed. It is a horrible thing to feel, and go through, no one deserves to go through it. NO one. For any reason. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

-sad

btw, to all of those who supported him on the MB site, I am greatful that you were there for him. I know how much I value the MB site now, no matter what happens.

today's update:
My WH is legally pushing me to 'move on' now. In one breath he claims he doesn't want the divorce to get ugly, in the next he's throwing legal bs all over the place. His concern is that I'll file for a divorce based on adultery, and not sit and quietly agree to his separation agreement. I've engaged my lawyer, as I can no longer sit and listen to these pathetic threats.

I struggle in knowing that I loved someone who could now only be concerned about his wallet, acting as if everything he's now doing, and his involvement with someone else is all ok and good. It has shown me that he really has 2 sides, one which I truly do not like at all, and definitely do not love. Good luck to him and the OW. I hope they find peace and love in each other. I need my own peace now.

You're not going to like what I have to say.

Like Pepper, I went back and read all of Karl's posts. I also note your post above where you say your husband accused you of a second adultery when you were only seeing that other man a few times a week, kissing and hugging him and disclosing marital secrets. You say that wasn't cheating but that you did then cultivate a full blown adulterous affair with him (in retaliation for the accusation???). Excuse me, the rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't do it in front of your husband, it IS cheating. When you started to talk to that 2nd man about your marriage, when you kissed him for the first time, when you hugged him...you were most definitely cheating on your husband and he was absolutely correct. Your inability to recognize that says volumes about your attitudes toward marriage and loyalty to your spouse.

I think your best course of action is to accept your husband's words at face value. You ripped his heart out for four solid years and I'm not surprised there's nothing left of his love for you. It's been burned out of him. You apparently haven't respected him for years...and that continues today. "Pathetic" threats? I suspect you've been talking to him in similar terminology as well as writing them in your posts. Lady, he's concerned with the financial impact of the coming divorce because that's all that is left of his relationship with you.

As a human being, you have got a lot of soul searching to do. This marriage is almost certainly a dead issue. He's built a relationship with another woman. I know nothing about her, but I bet he's with her because he feels (rightly or wrongly) that the slate is wiped clean with her. He doesn't feel like he has to wonder (again, rightly or wrongly) where she is and who she's with. You need to deeply explore why he feels that way and answer Pepper's question. What makes you think you're ready to be a married woman?

I understand your opinion on this, but underneath it all lies one fact that everyone seems to just let go of as insignificant in my case. While we were going through supposed recovery, I had not ended my A, and he was having his own EA. Neither right. Mine of course lays on heavier with the history of what I did.

I am not saying what I did was right nor am I saying he is wrong for wanting out. I have done my soul searching. I left both As. And even if that means he is gone forever I feel 100% better about myself for not being in an A now at my weakest point , at the death of us, when I have so many EN and no one meeting them. I'm getting all the strength from coming clean with my own heart and mind. That tells me more about where I am more than anything else. I am sorry for what I did to him and ruining my marriage. And you're right. I'll swallow the pill and move on knowing that much of this was my doing.

I AM IN NO WAY ready to be married now. What I would like is some minor form of friendship, to know who my H is. Not a full-on marriage. It's all been lost over the summer as we stopped talking. I did not realize it was wrong to want to be friends with someone that I've spent 13 years of my life with, the same person who requests an amlicable divorce. But I think you are right and he is right, it's too late and simply does not matter. I do recognize at this point the marriage is just a piece of paper. I guess that's how I mistreated it all along and it's just too difficult for anyone to see or understand why I would want so desperately to somehow show that there was once a reason that we did get married. I know, i know, too late, should've woken up sooner. I just wish I had an opportunity to show him I am not the evil ****** I was and that he now has planted in his mind as so forever.

I do not need to explore the concept of a clean slate. When I did hook up with the 2nd A, that was on my mind, how good it felt to be with someone who wasn't yelling and screaming and having trust issues, any of it. I get it, i really get it.

I'm sure she'll easily fulfill his every EN especially being that she's the same one that's been fulfilling his EN throughout our problems. She accompanied him to the OM's apartment when he went to see it the first A. She knows everything that she shouldn't do and that he needs. It couldn't have been made any easier for her. I'm sure this will spawn a 'lady you deserve this' response. I've heard that a million times over from him. I'm getting what I deserve.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that I have feelings for him, and will have to get through this. I'm sorry my behavior in the past offended all of you so. I've taken alot of unpleasant words from people I know, friends and family about what I did. I am only seeking to get through this ok, and feel ok with who I am and somehow know that I can be a better person, make better decisions and know why I made the mistakes I did. That's all I want now. That's it, clean and simple. Plan A'ing ME.

You have my sincere best wishes.