My husband had a 7 month long PA with a coworker. It has since ended and he no longer has any contact with her, going on 3 months. He has told me that it was just sex, not love, not an EA at all. I have read HN/HN and can understand how this could happen because I was not meeting his ENs and he was also not meeting mine. I just did not act on it and he did. He has committed to our marriage and children, has told me that she knew from the start that he was never leaving me and the kids, and we have gone to marriage counseling (2 sessions). We are communicating more and feel hopeful that we can make our marriage better than before. I am working on meeting his needs and he is working on meeting mine. It is not a case where he doesn't know if he loves me anymore. He is remorseful and realizes what a big mistake he made. He blames it on being 40 and losing his mind.

I am trying to Plan A, but over the last week, I find myself becoming very depressed and thinking about past events and wondering if he was with her at this particular time in the past when he wasn't home. We have talked about the affair, and he has answered my questions honestly. I need some advice on how to move past this so that I can focus on rebuilding our marriage. I feel that we can move past this, and he is showing me that he wants to work on the marriage. He tells me that I am giving the OW too much power and that I need to stop letting her take up so much space in my head. I agree, but sometimes find it difficult not to compare myself with her.

Does this get easier to deal with over time? How do you move past having to know everything and not being satisfied with the answers? Do you get to a point where it doesn't really matter, and all that matters is that both spouses are committed to the marriage?

Any comments or advice would be appreciated.

I feel the same way you do about wanting to know details and not getting any answers. My H says it would be too hurtful to me and won't tell me very much. He thinks it is sick that I want to know "what he said and what she did" etc, etc, etc,. But I do and I can't stop thinking about it!! I am 1 month out from discovery of a PA and hope as MAMafish said that a point will come when I don't dwell on it every hour of every day.

Plan a is a tactic used during your spouse's affair ... Plan a is NOT recovery plan.... plan A is too one-sided for recovery

You are "moving past" this ... you should anticipate this sense of emotional instability off and on for maybe 2 years.

You are doing just fine.

Your husband can say what he thinks you ought to be doing ... but as a recovered BS, I can tell you, there is no way to get these thought out of your head on a fast track.

Tell your husband that you appreciate his concern, but you need him to reassure you at those times, NOT measure or critique how you are dealing with this terrible thing he did to you.

It does get easier with time but doesn't happen overnight or even within a year. It is more like 2 yrs.

What can help is to schedule a specific amount of time for you to ask questions you have accumulated until you have exausted your supply then make a decision to not allow yourself to go there anymore because you already know most of the details.

If you haven't done so you may want to purchase the MB home study course to work through together. This covers lots of areas that can be somewhat painful but cathartic and can contribute to growth as a couple.

Mamafish, Pep and Trix are right, it will take years to recover, not a couple of months. You have experienced the greatest betrayal a spouse can commit; you won't get over it and move on as quickly as you think.

You can come here and unload on us though. You will find lots of support here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A note from the "other side":

As a FWW, I disagree that plan A is only useful DURING an affair. My BH didn't know about my affair until after it was over, and he has been plan A-ing anyway. It has made HIM happier because he's improving himself and his own life. And it has helped me -- someone who tends to dwell on things far too long -- to start pulling myself out of the fog faster than I think I normally would have. It has been very hard to let go of the sexy/exciting thoughts about the OM. Part of me WANTS to hold on to those thoughts and feelings, WANTS to relive it all. And in a wierd way, I think if my H brought it up a lot or asked a lot of probing questions, it would just make it easier for me to do that. Since he DOESN'T do that, he doesn't provide me with any 'triggers' to keep dwelling on OM.

See what I mean?

-SC

SC, the purpose of Plan A is to bust up the affair. If the affair has ended there is nothing to bust up. Meeting your spouse's needs is a Marriage Builders principle that operates regardless of whether one is in Plan A.

A BS can and should ask questions about the affair in Plan A, and especially afterwards. The reason is because the BS needs this information in order to heal and is entitled to it. It is pertinent information about his marriage. If the WS has secrets with the OP that the BS is not privy to, healing can never take place.

Melody,

I understand that Plan A was DESIGNED to break-up an affair and win back the WS. However, I've noticed that a lot of BS's continue with the plan after the affair has ended, while the FWS is in withdrawl. As you know, withdrawl is a dangerous time when a lot of FWS's relapse and break NC or just decide to dig their heels in and get out of the marriage. If plan A can help a FWS move out of withdrawl more quickly and reduce the risks of a relapse, why not keep using it? My H had never even heard of Plan A, he just did it instinctively, and I think it paid huge dividends for both of us.


I did not mean to suggest that BS's are not entitled to ask questions and get honest answers. If it came across that why, I'm really sorry. I have answered all of my H's questions honestly. And I've made it clear that if he has questions in the future, I will continue to answer them. I understand why it's important to do that, and if a FWS is avoiding that responsibility, someone needs to set him/her straight. I only wanted to point out the potential pitfalls of dwelling on the details -- that it forces your FWS to dwell on those details as well. That shouldn't stop you, MAMAFISH, from asking all the questions you need to ask to heal. Just something to be aware of, IMO, as you continue to move forward and recover.

--SC

Plan A is too one-sided for recovery because Plan A requires the BS forgo getting his/her own needs met (on a temporary basis). A prolonged Plan A caused increased resentment and the BS's Taker will eventually arrive on the scene screaming to have "my fair share".... it's very dangerous to a marriage for either partner to feel they MUST sacrifice their own needs to keep their spouse around.

Other than that difference in opinion Cookie, I think you are hitting the mark! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't get the sense that Mamafish's husband is in withdrawl. Do you? He says he was never in the affair emotionally (common for men by the way)

sc, the definition of Plan A is a plan designed to bust up the affair by negotiating an end to the affair. If the affair is ended, there is nothing to negotiate.

What you do see BS' doing after the affair has ended is not Plan A, but basic MB principles of meeting needs and avoiding lovebusters. Those MB principles are not exclusive to Plan A, but are essential to building a healthy marriage regardless of an affair. See the difference?

Thanks for clarifying your point on open and honest discussion. While the questions may cause the WS to think about the affair, I would point out that the BS thinks about it ALL THE TIME. Sometimes for years. But that is what is takes in order to recover.

Pep & ML,
Thanks. Got it.

MF,
Sorry for the threadjack. Hope some of it was helpful.

--SC

Once again Mel you're bringing up something that I still struggle with. As briefly as I can sum it up for Mamafish I will tell the story of my fWxw (soon to be wife) and our problems. This is not an attempt to threadjack just how we all get bogged down by "details"...we want to know everything baout the person we love...even the stuff that hurts..

We separated in 2002 and divorced in 2003. She had a PA I did not know about in 1998-99 and as part of our reconciliation I demanded answers to rumors that surfaced after our D. I was told it was a couple of times while out of town for work. DD#2 - it was only a couple of times, over a year, but one was a booty call where he flew up here from 800 miles away in his plane while I was out of town. She still would not tell me who, where, when...it was during this period I found this site. I sent her the Dear Peg letter, finally our counselor said I did deserve answers. I wrote down questions and she answered them like she was on a witness stand. But she answered them. I had thought that she had her affair AFTER she asked me for a divorce in 1999. She knew this because it was what I wrote to her...I was wrong..got the ILY but I am not ILWY speech, D request, etc AFTER her affair had ended. It was the owner of a company her company did business with, 17 years older than her and "he was not even remotely attractive". DD#2 for me was tough...she had lied to me, let me believe what was not true. I was furious and LB'd a lot, lot of DJ's. I almost called it quits (this was 3 months into reconciliation/ recovery). During this time I specifically asked about certain events and places she traveled to for work. As a busy executive I "had" retained all my planners and when she had to travel for work it was in my planner because of our children. We agreed to NO more privacy, no more lies. I had access to all her e-mail, voice mail. Vice versa.

As a side note: While divorced I dated many women and was involved with someone else when Xw decided she wanted to try again. She asked me many questions and I never lied. I also refused to "cheat" on my GF...When she asked me if I was in love with my gf I told her I "could be", I was not sure. She asked many questions, names, things I did, etc, personal detailed questions I refused to answer regarding my sex life because I knew it would hurt her. I did not lie, I simply said, answers to these questions serve no purpose.

A few months go by (5) and a news group alerted me to something about this guys company. I had done a ton of research on this guy just trying to figure stuff out (BS have to understand this)...Answers to my specific questions about certain events were answered in a newspaper article!! She had lied. She said "I was not with him"...My response was HOW COULD YOU SAY YOU WERE NOT WITH HIM, HE WAS THERE!!! She said "I did not sleep with him"...I came unglued. Got on my snowmobile and took a 150 mile ride solo..I was furious. I broke up with her. I was done. she was devastated, so was I. After 2 weeks she came over and talked to me begging for a second chance. I told her how bad it hurt each time...and how each time it got worse...and I was in trouble...she promised she had nothing else to tell me.
I told her that "I want to know how and when it ended"...

Fast forward to today. I found out that some of their contact was after their last hook up. After she told him "I can't do this anymore"...his comapny flew out some rock stars to a venue and he came along and some of the folks from xw's company also went...it was one of the questions I asked and she told me "I was not with him"...I knew he was there but last week I found out the date and I had to ask about it. It was then that she finally answered me about how and when it ended. She told me "I was a mess"..My response was "How would I know? Why do you think this bothere me so?". The response I got was he wanted me to "meet him again and it made me feel like a wh0re"... If it comes up she is devastated. She gets ill. She thinks I am leaving. I'm not...I just wanted to know...the same way she wants to know everything about me...she also said "you're never going to get past this are you?" I told her probably not. As there are things that I have done to you that you have not gotten over, nor do I expect you to. what I promise to do it "get through" it. I still think about it EVERY DANG day...but not like I used to. It doesn't hurt like it used to. It has been almost 18 months....since Dday....

Hope this helps...every person here has different experiences but reality is the stories sound all the same!

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. My husband is not in withdrawal, as Pepperband says, it was not emotional. The OW started to get emotional and fell in love with him and started making demands on him. He had been trying to break it off with her for months and it had been on and off. He said that it was just sex, which is something that I have difficulty in believing, but from reading here, it seems that is common in men, as Pepperband says. He has been answering questions but has now told me that he doesn't want to keep going into it.

Melodylane has it right also. I see now from everyone's comments that I have just been using the MB principles to meet his needs, encourage open discussion, reward his honesty by avoiding LBs and not getting angry when I hear the truth.

Trix, we had dinner alone in a restaurant on monday night prior to our MC session, and set this time for me to ask questions that he would answer. This seemed to be a good idea since I know that all I want is honesty, and knew I wouldn't get all emotional in the restaurant. He also knew that there was a definite end to the amount of time we had. I have not exhausted my supply of questions, but feel that I do know most of the details, and my imagination is supplying the rest of the questions.

The difficult thing for me has been that he said he was afraid of losing me as a friend as well as a wife, never meant for me to find out because he knew it would hurt me so much. I said to him, where was my friend (him) while all this was going on, and his answer was, your friend was off being stupid, and made a terrible mistake. This answer seems too simple for me, but I guess that it is what it is. I am working on myself and see a change in me, and in him since D-Day. I have come to the conclusion that the worst thing I could imagine has already happened, so what I was doing before didn't work, and I need to make changes in my behavior. So, the MB principles are working for us.

SC, thanks for your opinions also. I think that he doesn't like to answer the questions any longer because he doesn't like to think about all the pain he has caused. He does not want to think about the OW anymore. I think that I was not really doing PLan A so much as I was trying to meet his need for SF and Affection. I was not meeting his needs, he felt rejected by me, we had a huge arguement, and when this younger coworker who had been flirting with him for months, made a suggestion that they get together after work, then the PA started. He said that he made it clear from the begining that it was just a PA for him, but it turned into an EA/PA for her, and then she started making demands on him. Just like the Harley book says, the OW meets only some of the needs, and the S meets the others.

dkljj2005, I understand exactly what you are feeling and going through. At one month, I could not stop thinking about it, at work I was completely distracted by it and would wake up at night and just cry. It does get easier. I have learned alot from reading the books and the MB boards. Definitely read His Needs Her Needs. You may find that you were not meeting his and he was not meeting yours. When I read it, I saw that the A was almost unavoidable due to the separate lives that my H and I were leading, which made the A easier to conceal. Now, I see where I am accountable, and I am trying to move on. I can choose not to think about it but you have to work through it. In my case, I told my H that his honesty was what I needed most, and my imagination of what happened was actually worse than the truth. Maybe that is true for you also. I imagined that he was with her whenever he was not home, and he said that was not always the case. Tell your H that you need the answers so that you can understand the reasons why the A happened. I imagined that they would go out and do things together and go places, and he said that they did not, and that was a reason that she would get mad at him because they did not do anything but have sex.

Thanks for all of the support. I know that I have a long long road ahead of me. I am trying to live by these words of wisdom:

Analyze it
Deal with it
Learn from it
Build a bridge
Get Over It!

Analyze it
Deal with it
Learn from it
Build a bridge
Get Over It!

wonderful

as unsatisfactory as this may seem


it's pretty accurate ... if you add "selfish"

MAMAFISH,

I've had the same problem too. I obsessed about the details, about his emotions, about the time frame - everything. We met with our pastor who told us that you can't make something logical when it's illogical - he said I would never make sense of it. But, I still tried. Many Sundays at church, I felt as if the lesson was directed at me - like "happiness is a choice & bitterness is a choice". And "maybe God is trying to teach you how to forgive." I fought those concepts & resisted praying because I wanted to be sad, depressed, & have a pity party & I didn't want anyone telling I could choose something else. But, when my emotions of details got out of control - like I didn't come home one evening for 3 hrs while we fought over the phone over some of the details. I was on the verge of getting a hotel. Then, it hit me. This affair was over, he was with me, he loves me, he wants me & he wants this marriage. He cannot change what he did but would if he could. The PA OW didn't have him (he also did have an EA, but I didn't obsess about it as much) - he never loved her (he admitted to using her but never felt any love for her). So, why was I trying to compare myself to the OW? I knew deep inside that our life together was so much more meaningful to him that this short time of his life (when he was in the fog). He admitted to thoughts of suicide after & deep depression for what he had done. And he was again deeply sad for what I was going even if he wasn't always responding the way I wanted him to (to my feelings). So, in that moment, I said "Okay, apparently I can't handle talking or thinking about the details anymore" so I made a decision to stop. It took me longer to pray about it but I have done that too (and he was praying for us the entire time). I've had a few sadder days since then, but nothing like that now. If I start to think about the details I remember that it's over & done with & stop myself from INDULGING in a pity party. The saddness isn't as deep or long. I come back out of it quicker.

I hope this helps. I know it's hard!! Honestly, I never thought I was the type of person who could accept an affair in my marriage - I thought for sure I would be out the door. So, I guess we never really know what we can handle & God never gives us more then we can handle (even when we believe it's more then we can handle).

I'll post an email I got from a friend in my next post that helped me alot.

I really needed this so I hope it helps you too.

Ten Guidelines From God

Effective Immediately, please be aware that there are changes YOU need to make in YOUR life. These changes need to be completed in order that I may fulfill My promises to you to grant you peace, joy and happiness in this life. I apologize for any inconvenience, but after all that I am doing, this seems very little to ask of you. Please, follow these 10 guidelines:

1. QUIT WORRYING:
Life has dealt you a blow and all you do is sit and worry. Have you forgotten that I am here to take all your burdens and carry them for you?
Or do you just enjoy fretting over every little thing that comes your way?

2. PUT IT ON THE LIST:
Something needs done or taken care of. Put it on the list. No, not YOUR list. Put it on MY to-do-list. Let ME be the one to take care of the problem. I can't help you until you turn it over to Me. And although My to-do-list is long, I am after all... God. I can take care of anything you put into My hands. In fact,if the truth were ever really known, I take care of a lot of things for you that you never even realize.

3. TRUST ME:
Once you've given your burdens to Me, quit trying to take them back. Trust in Me. Have the faith that I will take care of all your needs, your problems and your trials. Problems with the kids? Put them on My list. Problem with finances? Put it on My list. Problems with your emotional roller coaster?
For My sake, put it on My list. I want to help you. All you have to do is ask.

4. LEAVE IT ALONE:
Don't wake up one morning and say, "Well, I'm feeling much stronger now, I think I can handle it from here." Why do you think you are feeling stronger now? It's simple. You gave Me your burdens and I'm taking care of them. I also renew your strength and cover you in my peace. Don't you know that if I give you these problems back, you will be right back where you started?
Leave them with Me and forget about them. Just let Me do my job.

5. TALK TO ME:
I want you to forget a lot of things. Forget what was making you crazy.
Forget the worry and the fretting because you know I'm in control. But there's one thing I pray you never forget. Please, don't forget to talk to Me - OFTEN! I love YOU! I want to hear your voice. I want you to include Me in on the things going on in your life. I want to hear you talk about your friends and family. Prayer is simply you having a conversation with Me I want to be your dearest friend.

6. HAVE FAITH:
I see a lot of things from up here that you can't see from where you are.
Have faith in Me that I know what I'm doing. Trust Me; you wouldn't want the view from My eyes. I will continue to care for you, watch over you, and meet your needs. You only have to trust Me. Although I have a much bigger task than you, it seems as if you have so much trouble just doing your simple part. How hard can trust be?

7. SHARE:
You were taught to share when you were only two years old. When did you forget? That rule still applies. Share with those who are less fortunate than you. Share your joy with those who need encouragement. Share your laughter with those who haven't heard any in such a long time. Share your tears with those who have forgotten how to cry. Share your faith with those who have none.

8. BE PATIENT:
I managed to fix it so in just one lifetime you could have so many diverse experiences. You grow from a child to an adult, have children, change jobs many times, learn many trades, travel to so many places, meet thousands of people, and experience so much. How can you be so impatient then when it takes Me a little longer than you expect to handle something on My to-do-list? Trust in My timing, for My timing is perfect. Just because I created the entire universe in only six days, everyone thinks I should always rush, rush, rush.

9. BE KIND:
Be kind to others, for I love them just as much as I love you. They may not dress like you, or talk like you, or live the same way you do, but I still love you all. Please try to get along, for My sake. I created each of you different in some way. It would be too boring if you were all identical.
Please, know I love each of your differences.

10. LOVE YOURSELF:
As much as I love you, how can you not love yourself? You were created by me for one reason only -- to be loved, and to love in return. I am a God of Love. Love Me. Love your neighbors. But also love yourself. It makes My heart ache when I see you so angry with yourself when things go wrong. You are very precious to me.

Dear Want2Bstrong,

Thank you so much for your post. I feel many of the same things as you wrote. I appreciate what your pastor said also, that I am trying to make sense out of something that I will NEVER make sense out of. I went through the same kind of pity party as you did. And my H said the same things as yours did--he never loved her, was never leaving me, and he also was very very depressed afterward. This was why he did not like me to bring it up.

This past Saturday was my daughter's 3rd birthday and all day I was tormented with thoughts of the OW, as much as I tried to move past it, I could not. The next morning, we had planned to go to church and my H said, I'm taking the kids and you can stay home and feel sorry for yourself but we're going. Well, I decided that I needed to go and went with an open mind that maybe it would help. (We have not been going to church regularly). So, the sermon was all about Forgiveness, and I felt that the pastor was speaking directly at me. He said that you need to forgive people as Jesus has forgiven us for our sins, and encouraged everyone to leave their anger and resentment at the nativity scene when we came up for communion. Tears were streaming down my face during the lesson as I felt that it was really something that I needed to do in order to clear my own head and move forward. My H has been praying all along and leaving it in God's hands. I'm having a harder time actually praying, but am trying. I don't feel that I have truly forgiven him, but I'm on the path.

I also never thought thta I could accept an affair--we seem to be very similar. At the beginning, I said, I'm done, it's over. But I have 3 very young children, and I felt that I would be cheating myself out of the opportunity to rebuild my marriage if I just left him. Reading the Harley books helped me tremendously because it helped me to understand how it could happen, when all I could think of was "how could he do this to me?". I see that many of the WS's do not want to rebuild their marriages, so I feel fortunate that he is committing to do so.

Are you and your H going to counseling? We have done 2 sessions, but we haven't gotten too far yet. I am trying to work on myself so that I have more self confidence and self esteem, and try to believe my H when he says that there was no comparison to the OW on his part. My H also admitted that he used her for sex and it became convenient. He has said that he would understand if I left him but he is committed to our marriage.

Thanks for the Ten Guidelines. I have seen this, and my H and I (more him than me) have been trying to live by this. He would tell me to read it over when I felt sad and worried, and to give it to God and not take it back.