Is he usually this rude to you?

No. I think that he was trying to get me out of the state I was in, because he knew that I would not stay home while they went to church.

MAMAFISH,

I did the same thing - thinking - how could he do this to me? He & I spent ALL of our free time together (his PA was at work for 30min-1hr after he got off work). He only met her once outside of work in a public place on his way to work. So, I had no clue because he was always with me when he wasn't working (although I do remember calling saying "what is taking so long?" and I remember our sex life slowed a tiny bit but not much). We were best friends & I thought our committment was very strong. I was blind-sided by all of it.

The one difference is that my H was wanting to leave me. But, not for the OW (her life is a mess) - but because he thought I was too controlling. He thought by having an A, he would then HAVE to leave me (his logic for it). As he began getting deeper into the A, he realized he was just being completely selfish & I didn't deserve any of it. Plus, he woke up & realized he didn't want to leave me & still loved me. What's good is that he never spoke negatively of me to her - in fact saying I didn't deserve it. Part of coming out of the fog is when he would actually have to "try" to kiss good (thinking in his mind, I don't have to do that with my wife). He realized, too, that he would be embarrassed to be with the OW in public (if he thought about it) because she is uneducated (HS dropout), unintelligent, had 2 kids out of wedlock & wasn't very attractive. She was the opposite of me. So, I never felt that she had something I couldn't provide him - it was just I wasn't attending to his EN's & was doing LB's. So, that has changed as well.

Fortunately for me, my H didn't have intercourse with the OW. He said the concept of STD's & pregnancy scared him too much (because of her 2 children out of wedlock and she wasn't consistent with birth control). Also, she has had other A's & he worried she could have some STD & not tell him. Of course, I was sad to hear that I was not in the equation that kept him from having intercourse but happy that SOMETHING kept him from doing it.

We haven't started any counseling yet - just had the one meeting with our pastor & have spent tons of time here reading & learning. We will get a MC soon so that we don't make any mistakes in recovery.

I truly believe my H is doing his best to become the H I deserve. He says his love is stronger now then ever. I just worry that if he doesn't tell me his feelings, we could repeat this. He guarantees that will never happen, but words just don't mean much to me right now. I will have to see consistent behavior to believe.

Our pastor on Wednesday night was speaking to us again - he talked about PROXIMITY to sin. You must keep a very big distance from anything that causes you to sin or could cause you to fall. His example was when he was a kid, he played outside with his cousin everyday at his aunt's. His aunt warned him everyday to stay away from the cactus & he did. But, over time, they would get closer & closer to it. And one day while playing around it, he & his cousin got into a little fight so she decided to shove him into the cactus. NOW, had he listened to his aunt & been away from the cactus, her shove wouldn't have sent him into it. But, his PROXIMITY to the cactus allowed him to fall right into it. One his own, he would have never gotten into the cactus, but never thought that someone else might send him into it because of PROXIMITY. The point here is any situation (like my H working around women, talking about their problems & becoming friends) may not by itself get him to sin - although it's a dangerous game. But, someone else (maybe I'm not meeting EN's or she is pursuing him) could send him right into the "cactus" if he is too close to it. I know this was long to make the point, but it was excellent I thought. We cannot get too overconfident that we can keep from sinning - we must guard ourselves by keeping away from anything that could end up being our cactus (lust, porn, music, drinking, drugs, etc.). For us the sermon was about OW in my H's life.

Hi W2BS,

I love your analogy about the cactus. That is perfect for my situation. My H worked with this woman (not directly) but in a large casino. He and I were basically living separate lives due to working hours (he worked the graveshift on the weekends, and I work business hours during the week). I was not meeting his EN's and he was not meeting mine. She had been flirting with him for months and months, and he never did anything until one night after he and I had a huge fight, he was feeling rejected by me, and she asked if he wanted to meet her after work--bam, he just got pushed right into the cactus!

He has told me that she doesn't compare to me, that this was just for sex (in my case, the PA went on for 7 months and was only for sex, so unfortunately, my H did not have as much self control as yours). I can't help but compare myself to her, even though he has said that she is not very attractive, and he never lost his feelings for me.

I am glad that you and your H are going to counseling. We have just started and I hope it will help. We used to be best friends but kind of lost each other along the way.

I have to go now (I'm at work) so I will not be able to post or read until Monday. Have a good weekend and I'll be back in touch on Monday. Definitely going to church on Sunday.

Have a good weekend,
Mamafish

I'm glad to hear you are going to go to church. It has been a great help to me. It shifts my focus & makes me realize that by having a pity-party, I'm just being selfish & really not focusing on the bigger picture & why we are really hear. Literally, our pastor one Sunday was mentioning trials & how it could be God's way to teach you how to forgive. Well, I knew he was talking to me because I don't forgive people in a lot of cases when I get hurt. I've ended friendships & relationships when other's betrayed me. But, this time, I am working towards forgiveness. So, I am going to learn something I haven't done before. And this is a whopper of thing to forgive. So, church has given me valuable lessons like that AND talking about the lost (which gives me perspective that this life is temporary & the real work is reaching others who need Jesus). So, I realize that I have much more in life to do then sulk on my couch feeling sorry for myself.

Our pastor says the principles of what we need to do are simple, but it doesn't mean they are easy to do. I hope this helps.

Hi Again Want2BStrong,

Thanks for your encouragement. We went to church yesterday and I had been looking forward to it. They showed a video instead of having a long sermon, but in it, the people were talking about how feeling lost, looking for forgiveness,etc and how Jesus is a comfort. The service was short due to a church trip in the afternoon, but we are going to the Christmas service this weekend. I am feeling less empty inside since we have been going, so I feel that it is helping. I found myself looking forward to going, and becoming more involved.

On the other hand, my H told me today that I mention the A every day, either directly or indirectly, and I said, well I think about it every day. I didn't realize that I mentioned it to him every day, but then when I thought about it, I have been doing that. On Saturday, I mentioned your analogy about proximity to sin and the story of the cactus. I found it to be helpful . He agreed with the principle of the story.

Anyway, we are going to our MC tonight. I am hoping it will be productive. We did not communicate very well with each other this week. He told me that I am looking for a perfect marriage, and nothing is perfect. I responded that I know that nothing is perfect, but that if we are both working on the marriage, it can be much better than it was. We need to reread the MB information. I find myself being more affectionate with him but he has said that he is afraid to approach me because he is not sure what my reaction will be. I told him that I need more affection and reassurance and every little gesture will mean alot to me.

I also need to see behavior to believe what he is saying. Talk is cheap, as they say. He has told me that he doesn't want anyone else but we have other issues to work on that need improving in order for our marriage to become what it can and should be.

We also went to my work Christmas party on Friday night, and sat at the table with my boss and his wife, who have been married for 34 yrs. His wife, me and my H talked quite a bit, and she was speaking about how she knew only 2 couples in their circle who had been divorced, and how marriage was a lifelong commitment and you needed to work at it, no matter what the problems were, you should not look outside the marriage for solutions, because it only brings more problems. She is a very kind person and I wondered why she was talking about this, and thought that she could probably that we were troubled, as much as we tried to act like everything was fine. We had a nice time, but I had wanted to dance, and he did not. So we didn't dance and I was sad about that, but then realized if we had, I probably would have gotten too emotional and started to cry. These feelings are just so close to the surface for me that any little thing brings them up. I'm trying not to do LB's but it is very very hard.

Mamafish,

I'm glad to hear you went to church. I'm sorry, though, the lesson wasn't more productive. We attend a fundamental church so the lessons are hard & hit home everytime. It took us a while to find that kind of church, but since I grew up in one I told my H that I needed that. After we found this church, he understood what I was talking about & appreciates the hard lessons as well. It always keeps you in check.

I also mention the A everyday in some way. It's getting better since I don't mention the details anymore, but if we see someone who resembles her or we drive by some place that reminds me, well, then I can't seem to let it go. Yesterday was my H's birthday & I really wasn't in the celebrating spirit. We did some things on Saturday (dinner & a movie of his choice), but yesterday, I ended up taking an afternoon nap while he was downloading music onto his new MP3 player. Not much excitement from me - he said it didn't feel like a birthday. But, I feel like that is what happens when you try to ruin your marriage. You are not going to have the most positive, wonderful spouse for a while until you can slowly heal. But, I've also told him he has to find happiness from inside instead of looking to me to make him happy (which is part of the P/A personality - get happiness externally instead of internally)

I agree that my H seems a bit impatient as well. I think there are two components to this: 1) We (BS) handle this differently then they would (being a P/A an all) which means we "feel" everything & don't push anything away and 2) They are not the one that has been betrayed so it's really hard to understand how hard that position is.

I've shared those thoughts with my H & he at least agrees with the principles of it. I said "I have to heal how I heal, not how you would heal." He got it I think.

I agree talk is cheap. And with a P/A, I'm sure over the years you've heard alot of false promises (I know I have) so my trust level is 0 at the moment. I told him I just needed time to rebuild trust & see if his word it true. ONLY time with tell if he means what he says - so he has no choice, but to be patient & continue keeping his word.

Finally, be careful in MC with a P/A. Someone else on this board told me that P/A's typically can "play" a MC or IC to believe they are the victims. It's what they do. Also, watch & see if your H does what is ask of him by the MC. If not - you know it's the P/A running the show. Just some thoughts.

W2BStrong,

Thanks for your words of caution re; MC. So far the MC has not asked us to do anything at all, which is why I am hoping that tonight's session will be better. It will be the third session and when I made the initial appt, I was told that they take 1-2 sessions to make their assessment. I have never been to counseling before, but my husband has seen ICs for depression so he is much more comfortable talking to the counselor, and the two of them (the counselor is also male) have spend most of the time talking, with the MC asking me questions sometimes. The MC said on our first visit that he is the advocate for the marriage, and that he is not on one side or the other. I hope that we get into the A topic tonight. The last two visits, we did talk about it just enough so that he knew what had happened, and why, but he asked alot of background questions as to how our marriage was before kids and before the A. But we have not gotten into how it makes me feel, so that my H can understand what I have been going through, and why it will take time for him to regain my trust, etc.

My trust level is also at 0 right now, because this is so new and fresh in my mind. The A has only been over for 3 months, and I just found out 2 mos ago. My H swears that this is the only time he cheated, and that he tried to get out of it many times. He never meant for me to find out (of course!). I had suspicions, and when confronted, of course he denied them. I wish I could have read the Harleys' book before, because I would have seen through all the lies. But all I can do now is to try to rebuild since I can't change what happened. Will let you know how the session works out tonight...

You might find Lori's Story interesting:
Being married to a passive-aggressive man has been the most challenging thing I have ever faced. http://passiveaggressive.homestead.com/Success.html

Also, see http://www.passiveaggressive.homestead.com/DEFENDING.html & the links at the bottom, Suggestion & Solutions.

MC is a challenge for a P/A I'm afraid. Since they DON'T like to talk about feeilngs or confront problems & there is a pressure to do so, they can start the P/A behavior of saying what they think the MC wants to hear, but doing the opposite. Just be aware. LISTEN TO HIS ACTIONS, NOT HIS WORDS.

Then, respond to his actions not his words because it will tell you how he really feels.

Good luck with MC tonight.

I will read these posts on P/A men before I go to the session--Thanks! No, he doesn't like to talk about feelings or confront problems, and that is why he doesn't want to talk about the A. He talks alot about what HE was feeling at the time (rejected, angry, depressed) during the sessions, as to why he did this. I think he feels "safe" to talk about it with the MC, instead of just with me one on one.

I just read those links on P/A, and boy does it sound familiar! I definitely have some reading to do on this subject. I think that he is telling the MC what he wants to hear on some level, but again, we haven't gotten very far into it yet. He does go to an IC, who knew all about the A, but he doesn't have an appt with the IC until Jan.

Thanks for filling me in on this. Just adds another component to the whole thing. Alot of the things in Lori's story ring true for me. I am the rescuer, always there to support him, his "rock" as he calls me...

Hi Want2BStrong,

Just wanted to fill you in on the MC session. It went reasonably well. I was able to talk further about some issues that had been bothering me. One thing we discussed was the fact that I bring up the A every day, either directly or indirectly. I said that I still had questions and we hadn't gone over all of them, even though my H had answered many. The MC asked if I thought it would help me to go through all the details and I thought about it and said Probably not. He said, No I wouldn't think that it would help you. He is trying to work on the solution, we know what the problem was, and now we are trying to fix it. This is his approach.

Due to the holidays, we won't have our next appt for 2 wks, but he gave us some homework to do in the meantime. I think I will try to talk to my H about how I feel about the A, rather than having to know all the details. I'm also going to start up the MB questionnaires with my H again. We had started but never got very far.

This is a good time to watch your husband. Don't remind him about his MC homework. See if he does it himself. Again, you are watching his actions, not his words. His actions will tell you his feelings. Then, you can respond to his feelings through his actions. If he does his homework, you know he is working on the marriage, but if he does not, you can ask why isn't working on the marriage important to him instead of talking about homework. I, now, ask my H why is he sabotaging our recovery when he does something like that.

Also, it might be wise to tell your MC about his passive-aggressive behavior so that they have an idea of the type of person they are dealing with too.

Good advice again. I told my H that I wanted to review the MB approach with him again since we have this MC break for 2 weeks. He was agreeable to that, so I am hopeful. I have to remember what you say about watching his actions, not his words because that is the big point he makes all the time, that he would rather show me his commitment, than have to talk about it all the time.