Mimi and Shugah,

I haven't heard from you guys in a while and my resolve to wait out the EX's A is waining big time. I am having a hard time dealing with the fallout with my kids and with her actions regarding the kids. She seems ****** bent on putting a huge casm between everyone in the family and it's working. She has convinced DD she needs to support her more by spending time with her while the OM is there, and has started using the kids to be the go between for us even after several requests to stop this. I went so far as to ask the In-laws to help stop this. No luck to date.

I am being as dark as I can be but she keeps finding ways to get to me. Do you think she is reading our posts here and using them to achieve her goals? What did you guys do to avoid this kind of stuff from your WS's? I used to think I could just sit back and learn to live on my own and wait this out. Now I am having a bunch of doubt and conflict over my resolve to see if we have a future. What kept your hope and aspirations alive for you?

Thanks for anything you can suggest, I am losing the last bits of feelings and respect I have for her and I don't want that.

<<<BUMP>>>

Hi Duk...

This stuff is truly AWFUL isn't it?

I can understand you wanting to give up on this crap...

I would feel that way, too...

and then I would get BACK UP ON THE HORSE..TRY to do something JOYFUL for myself...listen to some music..read a book..buy a new houseplant... browse around a bookstore..I KEPT SEARCHING...

You said:



How does she go about doing this?

What is she saying to your daughter?

Has your daughter been around the OM yet? And she feels comfortable with this?

Have you shared with your daughter how YOU FEEL about this?

Your daughter has the option, I think, of visiting with her mother and maintaining a R with her WITHOUT DISRESPECTING YOU...

I don't know..

It might be necessary for you to put major limits on your own interactions with your daughter...

I am saying that I would be interested in learning more information about all of this...

You go on to say:



What are her ways?

You can change your screen name if you are concerned that she is reading...

Tell us about what time you will be coming on...say this is DUK..after you are acknowledged..then erase the post saying this is DUK...

I'll be checking usually off and on during the weekdays until 4:30PM EST....

Hang in there, DUK...

Keeping my hopes up was not an easy thing!!
I remember being where you are many times....

I had suspected privacy issues here with my posting and changed my identity....

One suggestion I might have is counseling for your children or for you and your children together....one of my S's went and I joined him and it helped tremendously....he struggled with what WH was doing and how he feared saying NO to him about visiting, meeting OW, etc.....the counselor can also help to send the message to WS that what she is doing is hurting the kids, because you can be sure she'll want to know why they are in counseling and want to be a part of it! It helped me to know that I was not putting my children in the middle, they were legitimately confused and angry.....and it also ticked off WH, of course! WH went once, but he had an agenda and it didn't work and he never returned....until meltdown time came around, which was over a year later!

keeping dark is the only thing that will protect your love...it's hard I know....mine was pretty much shot, but somehow I kept that little spark hid away somewhere and was able to ignite it when the time came....


Hang in there, and as Mimi said, continue to do things for yourself that improve the quality of your life....

Mimi & Shugah,

Thanks for the encouragement and for the suggestions. As for how she is getting to me it's mainly thru the kids. Most recently she asked my DD to ask me if she could get her Christmas stuff from the house. She convieniently left this when she moved out. She insinuated to my DD that I was not willing to give her any . This created a storm between DD and I all for nothing. I called the EXBIL and had him come and get all of the stuff so DD was out of the loop. Then the EX and DD both admitted this was the first request for the stuff she should have taken in September. The EX pawned the problem off on DD by saying she just mentioned it to her and did not expect her to get the stuff.

As I said she finds her ways and in looking around for the Christmas stuff she has left multiple boxes and other items to continue doing the same thing over and over. I told her in September she was done with getting stuff from the house and tried to get a letter from her saying she was done, she said no, that would be making things easier for me and she would not do that.

As for DD and the OM, I discused my feelings with DD and told her I felt she needed to support her mother all she
could because her mother has earned this over her lifetime. I then asked her how the OM has earned any of her support and urged her to look at it from my point of view. I told her I would be okay no matter what she decided and I would adapt. She thought it over and basically told me she would never accept the OM but she wanted to do things with her mother and not have to worry if OM was there or not. She felt she was making her mother hide part of her life from her and didn't want to feel bad about that any more. She was really firm in her stance on this and told me she was old enough to decide this stuff for herself and I shouldn't be pressuring her either way.

In response to all of this I wrote the EX another plan B letter restating my desire not to have any communication and for her to use her parents and brothers to communicate and not the kids. All of this was in the first Plan B letter that she basically ignores, so I sent it to her parents also this time. We'll see if it stops the BULLSHI7.
I also believe that EXMIL has been working on DD as they are very close also. She at least follows my requests and does not ever communicate with me. But I think she is the driving force for DD to start accepting OM. EXMIL won't associate with OM yet but wants DD to do it to make EX feel better.

The IL's are a whole story in themselves, BIL #1 is a five time DUI recipient and functioning alcoholic, #2 is an ex-con for white crimes, theft, and drugs, and the parents have spent their whole lives doing damage control for their kids. EX was the white sheep of the family until all of this and she was for the most part a great wife and a teriffic mother. Her only problem up until now was on the open and honesty side. She has had many many credit card problems and always hid them from me until she needed a bail out. Even after D-day she was intercepting the mail from my mail box and sorting out the bills for the cards she had once again built up and hidden. I have told her I consider these a bug bite on a bullet wound in terms of what we have to work on but it hasn't helped. As for being open she has told me numerous times she just does not know why she could never be open with me and that worries me. She has always kept a part of herself seperate from me and I'm not sure if I could let that slide again.

Duk:

BOUNDARIES...

I would think that you need to put your foot down and not let her back into the house period..NEVER AGAIN..NO NEGOTIATION....

Box her stuff up...leave it outside or whatever....

I don't think you need to BE NICE about this..sending a letter or anything..Can't you JUST DO IT?....



Did you mean SUPPORT HER MOTHER as an INFIDEL..Honor and respect her mother...YES..SUPPORT her now..I would say NO, my opinion...



Duk:

You are just SO NICE about this...If you don't like your daughter's position on this, say so...Your daughter does not have to be in the company of the OM in order to spend time with her mother...JUST NOT TRUE..in fact, the quality of her time with her mother would be best if they are alone..I personally do not care at all for my mother's H and I don't spend time with them together...I know that this can successfully be done..

True, your daughter is an adult. This is her decision but you do not have to express agreement with it. Your daughter has chosen to enable this R...

SOUNDS LIKE A NEED FOR TOUGHNESS AND BOUNDARY-SETTING TO ME...

Hang in there....

BTW:

I found the books Love Must Be Tough by Dobson and Boundaries by Cloud to be very helpful..

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Hi Mimi,

Yes I am trying too hard to be the nice guy in this. DD and the EX have always been very close and I don't want to change that or put DD in a position where she has to be in the middle of any more of our issues. You are right in that if she chooses to be around the OM she will become an enabler. IL's have done this for their children for many years and MIL is the one pushing DD to do this I'm sure.I just want to build my relationship with DD not weaken it. I will read Dobson's book and hopefully pick up some tips for managing this from now on. I finished "His Needs, Her Needs" and loved it.

AS for the other stuff I will be getiing it out ASAP! No reason not to now that I know it is there. Thanks for the help, and you are right about this stuff being awful. What is your opinion about her openess and honesty issues? Can someone who has kept part of herself out of a relationship for 28 years change this? Could she learn to tell me about what is bothering her and the things I do that creates LB's for her? Even after 9 months of seperation she still can't come up with a reason for what she did. She still tells family and friends she was happy at home and content, just that something was missing and he was there when she needed him. I know it's fog talk but you would think after this amount of time something would pop up for her and become somewhat clearer.

One major reason why I am encouraging you in this is because of the type of guy that she is with..the chances of her remaining with him seem so slim...



Duk, your X had an A. She is the one who put herself in the position to be judged and admonished. What she has done is WRONG! You join in the enabling if you deny this....

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO GOOD? You have every reason to feel mad about this and to express your anger/sadness/distress and whatever to your daughter..THIS IS YOUR RIGHT..THERE IS NO NEED TO PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER, IMO, FROM YOUR NEGATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT THIS...



IMO, it's your daughter that is causing the problems in your R with her right now..NOT YOU...Shouldn't she take responsibility for her part in this?

Duk, try to focus on yourself now and not your WW and whether or not she will change..

What's important right now is for you to get stronger..go out to different places..take up some different hobbies or activities...

ENJOY YOUR LIFE..

BE STRONG...

MAN UP..BEAT CHEST..BECOME THE DUK WARRIOR..that you are!!!!

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Mimi,

I have been too nice in all of this and I have let the A dominate my life since. Now It is becoming a problem at work too. Too much indecision and not enough focus.I have a great opportunity to shine for my employer and so far I have only been a dull flicker.

Manning up is the perfect description for what I need to do. Steel the nerves and wipe the slate clean on my side and get after my work and my psyche. Feeling the martyr and beeing sullen and unsettled has to end. Maybe diving into work will be the diversion that clears my feelings of being lost and aimless. I think that has been the biggest disappointment for me. I had a vison of where we were headed and I looked forward to that, and having to change this vision has been gut wrenching. I just can't seem to find that new sense of where I want to be yet. If you don't have that sense you just don't have the focus or desire to push yourself either personally or in the workplace.

As I have said before I think BS's have a fog that needs to clear and this is it. Lost visions of the future and no path to follow anymore. This fog also takes time to clear and to overcome. I still seem to be in my fog. I have to clear it soon or some of the other good things in my life will start to disappear also.

Duk:

Are you on ADs?

Ask your Doc for some if you are not...they will help...

Yep..MAN UP...BECOME A WARRIOR...

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Mimi,

Yes the AD's kept me from becoming a vengeful and more violent BS. At the same time I think they make me even more morose sometimes. I am better now! Work has been a bear lately and it has shifted my focus all by itself. No time right now to dwell or reflect more than is healthy.

DD has not been around much lately and from what I hear she has yet to go near OM. Maybe my long lettter and talks with her got thru more than I thought! Could be her mother has convinced her to do things her way. Sneak around and lie. I hope not, I told DD that would hurt more than the truth. Thanks again for the words of encouragement! Have a great holiday season.