Okay, my WH is showing some frustration with my progress in getting over things. He says he's NOT frustrated, but clearly by his words he is. He told me about his 2A's, one EA & one PA about 2 months ago. I know recovery is long. He knows too. But, as soon as I have a couple of good days and a bad one comes he says "I thought you/we were doing better" (as if to say I thought you were getting over this & moving on). Then, his tone shows frustration.

Usuallly, what sets me back is some of his uncaring behavior. With his passive-aggressiveness (which he is also working on), sometimes it's like he is trying to sabotage my recovery (although he says he is not). Tonight, I asked him to address Christmas cards for me. I had them completely ready with the people name's on it & our return address on them. I just needed him to add the address of the recipient. I even said I would gather the addresses for him. Then, he says "can't you just print them on address labels for me so it won't take so long". I say "if I'm making labels & printing them, what do I need you for? To stick them on?" Anyway, this is an old behavior that gets under my skin where he will agree to do something, but then finds a way to not do it or do it poorly. So, I get a little upset & tell him "nevermind, I'll do it myself". He says "NO" but then does nothing to stop me from doing it myself. After that, I wanted him to come & read with me about passive-agressive behavior. I've read some to him already & told him about some other, but wanted him to hear another site I saw. He says "haven't we gone over this stuff before?" I said "yes, but I want you to hear some of it again" (there was other stuff he hadn't heard here either, but never gave me a chance to get to it). Then, I keep going & he repeats himself "haven't we gone over this stuff before?" And I'm thinking "didn't you just ask me that & I answered it?" He was checking the time - like hurry hurry so he can go off to bed (his priority is him, with little consideration of my feelings or giving me undivided attention). So, I stopped reading, because I was thinking "what is the point?" Then, he tries to explain (give excuses) that he has to get to bed, he'll be tired in the morning, etc. Later I said that we spent more time having a discussion about what happened then it would have taken for me to read the website.

After all this happened & I feel frustrated with him, he says that I'm not recognizing the changes he's made. Well, honestly, as a passive-aggressive & a WH, face to face he is the same to me (it's the behind that back that has changed). I said I cannot see the changes because he was hiding who he was AND I just realized I've been married to a person I don't even know. So, how can I recognize anything at this point. And plus, after 7 years of promises to change & with the lies & A's, I don't have the trust to recognize any change in a such a short period.

I told him it's like I woke up from an accident & have no legs and he is sitting there telling me I should recognize how wonderful it is that I'm alive but at the moment I cannot recognize the joy of being alive because I'm dealing with the pain & realization that I have no legs & it's going to affect the rest of my life.

Should my WH be frustrated with me? Can he be? Should I be expected to recognize the changes in him? Has anyone had this experience - I'd love to hear about it.

I want to add that I gave him the task of finding us a good MC. He told me he would. I even said "show me how much you care about this marriage". Then, he has done nothing. I asked him the other day "it's clear you aren't interesting in going to a MC, why?" He said "well, I thought we were doing better so I didn't think we needed one". Denial? It's like he can not empathize with me at all (even though he says he can). He must not have a clue, because I fight daily to not think about the A's, not want to leave & work to continue meeting his EN's.

I read your response to cnamzat on the "why doses my ws always bring up past arguments/discussions?" thread. You really got to me. You sound very educated and conscious of your life. And you sound a lot like me!

My DH is a passive-aggressive personality, also. I have been learning to deal with it in a productive way for the past four months. Like you, I studied, researched and read a lot about marriages, especially here. Al-Anon helps, too. I found the key to loving an Passive-Aggressive (P/A) is that when you make a request, you have to let go the results.

This is extremely difficult. At first, I thought I had to stop asking anything of him. This gave him breathing room. Then, when I did ask, I had to let go of the results. And if he did not do what he said (which I admit I expected him to do), then whatever it was that I asked I left undone. Period.

I noticed you referred to your H as WH...is he still in an affair?

You are so new to all this pain. I'm not telling you how to live. You have exceptional insight into yourself about controlling and manipulation. Now may not be the time to tell you, be more, be better, be something else...

This is a pre-A issue (and I found out that my H's A was the companion affliction to P/A...conflict avoidance).

Have you read, Facing Love Addiction? It was really helpful to me.

I hear your frustration. I understand your anger. Yes, you are Lovebusting with DJ's. You're not really asking if your WH has the right to be frustrated with you, are you?

Leave out all the shoulds of your life for now. Breathe and take care of yourself. Do for yourself, your own searches and leave him to his own. Then, when you feel less caught up in the insanity--that's how I felt, because I knew my H wouldn't do what he promised and I kept asking him to do anyway--stand back and see the dance in your marriage. I began with working on the Lovebusters...they are simple, but very complicated to identify and eradicate.

Keep up all your earnest efforts for yourself. You are an amazing woman. Try letting go the results for awhile. You didn't cause his P/A, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

LA

P.S. I would love to see this thread kept alive with your updates. It is an important issue that you are not alone in. I think you have a lot to teach me, too.

My FWW was exactly the same way. Over time she learned from her IC that it is within her nature to want to push problems away (which is one of the reasons she had the A, rather than talk to me about problems) and they will make themselves better. If she ignored the problem it would eventually solve itself.

Later, she also discovered that she needed to start depending on herself to make her happy and that I will be going through my ups-and-downs. Those feelings are necessary to process rather than push to the side for the convenience of someone else. That is how you can heal. It is too big of a burden for ANYONE to make someone else happy. Happiness is from within and your H does not realize that.


Maybe denial, but possibly a mixture of that as well as being a CA (conflict avoider). As far as having him find the MC... might not be a good idea. Keep in mind that when problems started to exist within your marriage he was a CA. Rather than deal with the issue he would most likely ignore it and take matters into his own hands. That meant finding happiness elsewhere and not trying to solve the problem in front of him. So, with that possiblly being the case, you will need to take charge of the MC because to him the problem will eventually solve itself and go away.

Once you find a good MC then you will need to find a good IC for both of you. It's possible that the MC will take on one of you but probably not both of you. Could create a conflict of interest for the therapy. I know this doesn't sound fair, but it isn't uncommon for CA people to not seek help. My FWW is thrilled that I went and found the MC and IC for us because she would have just hoped things would get better. Now she realizes all the problems SHE has and is trying to work on herself as well as our M.

First I should have said FWH. His EA was 4-1/2 years & his PA was 2-1/2 years ago. He did, however, keep contact with both OW up until he told me in Oct. He stayed friends with the EA OW and he didn't tell the PA OW to stop contact so she kept calling him from time to time over the past 2-1/2 years. They never talked relationship stuff, just general stuff & he was as brief as possible. After telling me about his A's & I found this site, he now has NC with either OW.

LA,
I appreciate your compliments. Now is definitely the time I need to hear it. Can you tell me what DJ's you are seeing that I am still doing? I used to do LB's (angry, DJ's & selfish) alot but have worked so hard over the years to change these bad habits. When I made DJ's judgments years ago, I belittled him with name calling, etc. I didn't care about what he wanted because it was SO important to me to be right. Then, if he didn't agree with me, I would get angry & start DJ's. I don't do that at all anymore. I work hard to stay calm & be reasonable. But, I'd love to become an even better communicator without any LB's.

I have not read Facing Love Addiction - can you give me some insight about the book?

It's like I got hit with a double wammy with both the A's, then the P/A information. Realizing the lifelong struggle I may have with his P/A is very disheartening to me on top of the A's. It may take me time to be able to let go of the results. I have to some extent when I gave up trying in many situations to get his help. I used to remind him of chores & gripe when they didn't get done. But, now, if our trash is overflowing because he didn't take it out I just throw my trash on top (and it might fall off onto the floor) and think "well, I don't have to pick it up". I let him worry about it. I do the same with most of his other chores - we might have really tall grass, weeds in the flower bed, no working lights in our master bedroom (ceiling is too high for me to change it) & many others things like that. Usually, I just let him worry about it. I do my chores & try not to worry about his. But, it means my lifestyle is NOT what I would like it to be. It's just not a happy thought that this may be for the rest of my life..UGH!

H4F,
Thanks so much for the comments. I agree my FWH likes to push all his problems away & is definitely a CA. I will talk to him about making himself happy & not relying on my feelings to determine his own. I will begin the search for a good MC. The reason I put on his plate is that I am OVERLOADED with work right now - working late into the night - sometimes up all night. I am so busy I have to make time to come here (which I NEED at the moment to keep my sanity). My H, on the other hand, is working from a regular schedule getting off early in the afternoon so he has time to be doing a few things to help out. AND I NEED HIS HELP RIGHT NOW because my emotions make me want to go straight to bed & not get up - and I cannot do that so I would like to not carry the load right now.

And when I talk about carrying the load, I mean I really have throughout this relationship. I have the steady, stable career which make the most money, I make sure all our bills are paid, I make sure most of the household stuff is cared for (except for his list), etc. It's a heavy load while he does little to nothing to meet my EN's. He is trying to be more affectionate & attentive, but security is no where in sight.

It certainly seems like an unfair bargain to me.

I also want to ask if it's a big deal that my H never cries. While we were dating, his dad died. His dad got sick and my H told him he was going to come get him & take him to the doctor. As a P/A, he didn't do what he said he would & his father ended up so sick (and never asked for help) that when someone got him to the hospital his body was already shutting down. My H didn't really believe he was going to die (denial) even when the doctors said his body was filling up with fluids & he was no longer awake. He wanted me to go to the movies while his dad laid in the hospital room. I kept thinking "why would you go to the movies, your dad is dying", but I didn't say anything as he insisted we go. His dad died while we were at the movies. The guilt was intense for my H, but he never cried.

The year we got married, my grandmother went through months of cancer with stokes before she died. We spent every weekend driving to see her & spend time with her. We spent Christmas with her in the hospital where she was no longer able to speak or even smile but was still alert & aware of all of us. After giving her our gift where she looked at it, but couldn't express what she felt (she wanted a wedding picture for Christmas), I burst into tears after leaving the room. Then, she died New Years Day 2000. He never shed one tear.

He hasn't cried since his aunt died when he was around 13. He said he made a decision then not to cry again. Does this mean anything? Honestly, I feel he is so out of touch with his emotions....what do you think?

Of course it's a big deal. Walls like that are only harmful in a M. This makes it easier for him to displace his feelings and therefore easier to have an A. Plus, it is not uncommon for guys to grow up feeling that they have to act tuff in order to feel like a man. Real men never cry... popular, though wrong, thought among many men.

My father was in Vietnam and he was a big tuff guy. Crying in my house was always followed with a "If you're gonna cry then I'll give you something to cry about" attitude. So, some men feel crying shows weakness.

Through IC your H will learn to break down the walls and how to feel. Till then, your H will continue to displace feelings, or disconnect, and then never feel vulnerable. Never feeling vulnerable is what makes it easier to not feel guilty during an A.

H4F,

I'm glad to hear that I'm not crazy thinking that the no crying is NOT normal. My H thinks he is in touch with his emotions & he can feel just as bad without crying. Of course, having cried & other times not cried, I know there is an emotional difference in the way I feel when you cry.

I definitely think he will need an IC to reach the source of this and find his connection to his emotions. He says he doesn't know what he can do about it - he just can't cry.