I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what to do. I've lost the man of my dreams and I'm desparate to get him back. Despite everything you might think after reading this, he is truly a good man. I just think we've lost our way and he's turned inside out.

We had been happily married (so I thought) for 5 years. We never fought, and only recently bickered over problems with building a new home. I am 40 and my husband is 30. I truly had no idea our marriage was in trouble. Our relationship has been taking a backseat to life lately (raising kids, building home, new job, etc.). And I will admit to limited intimacy recently. As I mentioned we have one child, and just spent the worst year building a brand new home, it was horrific, nothing went right. Well, 22 days after moving in, on Thanksgiving day, my husband says he's questioning our marriage. I had no idea. He had never mentioned any problems. I had left the house an hour earlier, kissed goodbye, and then when I came home, my world ended. A week later he announced "it's over".

He says there is no chance of reconciliation. He says he has felt this way for a long long time, but never said anything. Now, here I am with a mortgage I can't pay and a child to raise. I love him dearly and want to resolve this. He says there is no one else, that he is doing this for the possibility of someone better. At first I thought there was no one else, but I'm beginning to think there may be at least an interest in a co-worker. So how do I save this marriage?

Since we have a huge mortgage and can't afford for him to get his own place, we still live in the same house (it's been about 2 weeks since the announcement). But he can't handle the stress of being there so most often he leaves and stays who knows where. He flat out refuses any idea of counseling, and says there is no way we will ever reconcile. Is it possible for one person to save a marriage? If he won't work on the marriage, I can't get read anything or fill out any of the worksheets. How can I fill his emotional needs if he won't let me know what his needs are? How do you work on a marriage if the other person isn't there?

Is there anything I can do, anything. I am willing to accept divorce, but only if we try everything we can to heal the marriage and spare my child from this emotional trauma. What should I do? Right now, I've stopped begging, I don't ask where he goes, I'm just being a "good girl" and staying out of his way so as to not upset him emotionally.

Has anyone successfully saved a marriage in this dire of a situation? Please help me figure out what to do, I can't bear the thought of losing this man. Help me to save our family. I will pray for healing and hope that someone can guide me to the light.

Dear EMDD,
Welcome to Marriage Builders, I am sorry you are here but you have found a good place with lots of willing & experienced spirits...

It definitely sounds like your WH (wayward husband) is involved emotionally or physically with someone else. My H also denied an A (affair) for a month after D-Day with the ILYBINILWY - I love you but I'm not in love with you - speech. But your H's reaction is textbook affair-fog. If there haven't been major problems (addictions, anger, abuse, etc) it is highly unlikely for one spouse to suddenly want to leave the marraige (with no desire for counseling or possible reconciliation) when there is no OW (other woman).

Can you work on the marriage when he doesn't want to? You bet! Read the carrot & stick of Plan A here (Pepperband's link) - also everything else about infidelity, Plan A, Emotional Needs, etc.

Also, reading that helped me IMMENSELY:
Dr. James Dobson "Love Must be Tough"
Donald Harvey "When the One you Love Wants to Leave"
Gary Chapman "Hope for the Separated"
Dr. Willard Harley "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs"

Be patient, keep reading, keep posting, keep your calm.

He is in the eye of the storm. He has caused chaos and is living in chaos. He is about to become one VERY confused man. Just remember, HE is in the storm, NOT YOU. You are in the tornado-chasing van, looking on. Let God provide you with His peace & calm, let Him carry you.

There is a light at the end of this tunnel, but it takes a while to believe it's even there, much less see it. But it is.

Have you considered getting to the bottom of the affair issue with a Private Investigator, or digital voice recorder in his car? Do you have access to cell phone records or know anyone at his work well enough to try to get information? Are you a good bluffer? (i.e. can you tell him you know all about her, but refuse to "reveal" your sources to get him to spill the beans?)

Keep posting,
MSA

EMDD,

Welcome.
Mrs_STOWaway is on the mark for this one (you'll find she usually is.) It may be hard to believe but nearly all affairs are textbook. Major behavioral patterns are often the same regardless of the persons involved. That's why so many of the vets here are able to see what is hard for you to see. I would enthusiastically agree with MRS_STOWaway.

Start reading all you can here. Look at the startling similarities between all of these stories. Then learn about emotinal needs and plan A. Post as much as possible and ask many questions. NOW is the time for action. Not tomorrow, or the next day.

You have a long and arduous journey ahead of you but the truth is you DO have the strength to make it. You will need to have courage and faith like never before and you will find the strength.

A wise man (my father) once told me during my darkest hours "The courage and strength to do something often comes AFTER the doing. Rarely before."

Deuteronomy 31:6
"Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."


We're here for you and you are not alone.

-Fluke

Well, the truth is coming out. A common friend came to me and told me she thinks H is having an A with a co-worker. She has no proof, just rumors. I hit the redial on the phone and the OW number was the last called. And interestingly enough, she just left her husband a month ago. So, it looks like we've found the culprit. But now what.

He has emotionally separated himself from me. He doesn't speak to me unless our child is in the room. And he isn't living in the house right now. He hasn't moved anything out, he comes home plays daddy, and then takes a change of clothes and leaves. How can I work on a relationship if he isn't there? I can't fill his bank if I don't know what his EN are.

Do I call him on the carpet and ask what is going on? Or should I wait until I have evidence.

I can't figure out how to find the "carrot & stick of Plan A" that you mentioned?

I am sorry you have to be here. But as others--better experts than I have said, do read the material on this site. Read others stories/posts and threads and you will see that many people have been where you are at. This will help calm yourself so you can begin the process of forming a plan and deciding what to do next. Do not worry or blame yourself for your inability to reason with your WS right now. If he is in A then he is in a fog and will be hard to reach--but do not give up hope, there are ways and means. I am no expert and fairly new to the MB and found it after dd and wish I would have found it before. That said, you are in the right place. The carret and stick of plan A, its like good cop/ bad cop routine as I understand it. The carret refers to you being the best person you can right now--in an attempt to lure your husband back to you--and get him to see you out of the fog he is in. The stick involves gathering evidence and exposing the affair, setting boundries. Here is a link for a quick overview that Pepperband posted which makes it real easy to understand. Also have you searched in general questions? That's a great place and many answers to the questions running through your mind right now can be found there. Also lots of experts and help to be had. Hugs,


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=2858269&page=

EMDD,
I know the shock of finding out that he REALLY IS having an affair, even when you suspect, is terrible. But it explains a lot, doesn't it.

Here is the link to the carrot & stick of Plan A, looks like sleeplessiniowa posted to also...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=2858269&page=


The next thing to do once you have your facts and have your game plan and have done a little reading is EXPOSE. This means telling your H's boss, Human Resources, his friends and family and the Other Woman's Husband (yes, he still will care to know even if they are separated, if he doesn't know) about the affair. You will need evidence. The reason for doing this is that affairs don't survive well in the light of day. It's not done to be vengeful, mean, or nasty. It is done to break up the affair & give the best chance to save your family. More old-timers like MelodyLane on General Questions will have more advice on exposing. I didn't do it 100% (at his work or to OWH) but in hindsight definitely wish I had. I didn't know about Marriage Builders, and I would have been afraid of making H angry... but it would have shortened the cycles and cut down on all of OW's crazy lies and the different stories that she told her boss, my H, and her H. The tangled web would have been less tangly if she wouldn't have been able to get away with it. Communication with OWH would have been a GREAT thing in my case.

I'm posting something else about affairs that was so helpful to me after the fact, very true... I especially think you need to read and absorb the last 2 paragraphs at this point in time...

Read what Frank Pittman says about 'romantic infidelity'


Take care of yourself, and keep posting here & reading.
MSA

Ooh ooh ooh, something else great to add to your arsenal for these early stages!!

The 180 Approach

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from (his) family members (to "convince him" of his mistake!)
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse (I would add, don't get caught. If you need to spy to get information in order to expose, I think MB would say it's okay if he won't admit to the A)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (I'm not sure on this one either, Dobson says you state "I love you and want to work on this marriage, but will not be part of a love triangle.")
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

http://www.divorcebusting.com./

Thanks for all the support and guidance. The 180 list is a great help. I've been struggling with the jekyl and hyde in me that wants to beat the living daylights out of him. I will hold on and continue reading until I've got a plan... that's the hard part, I can't think right now. I have always been in control and organized and right now, I couldn't come up with a plan for tieing my shoes let alone saving my marriage. I'm struggling with his #1 EN (so I think, since he is not participating in trying to save this marriage). He needs Recrecreational Companionship, and how do you do that if he can't spend a moment in the room with me (too stressful, guilty conscious). Any suggestions are welcomed. I'll check out the other forums too. And I'll continue to pray for healing in my marriage. Thanks to everyone!! It's great to have someone to talk to.

EMDD,

I'm glad the 180 list is helpful, I liked most of the recommendations there and did them intuitively (from reading Dobson et al) and they worked well.

Begging does not work. Crying does not work. Explaining does not work. Judging does not work. Rational reasons do not work. Pay special attention to #23. This is the jujitsu concept also used by www.stopyourdivorce.com - a very interesting and I think true technique of NOT arguing with your WS. In a way, when you think about it, arguing is a disrespectful judgment, and THAT is a LoveBuster! So, therefore I think it is consistent with MB principles. At least the 180 outline will give you some "rules" to follow until you get your Plan A gameplan in action so that you don't "do damage" in the meantime... make sense?

As far as how can you work on the marriage when he won't? Start working on yourself, your position in the relationship, where you have failed, what you are willing to change. This is NOT being a doormat. It also does NOT NOT NOT make the affair your fault. Every marriage has issues and problems, strong & weak areas. NOTHING either spouse does or doesn't do is justification for adultery, the most painful thing that can be done in a marriage I think. Having made mistakes, or not been the perfect mate, or having not met his every need perfectly all the time is NO EXCUSE for his adultery, it just makes you human. NEVER take responsibility for that selfish choice he is making! You are not perfect, he is not perfect, but you couldn't have done ANYTHING to deserve this betrayal.

This is self-examination, reflection, gaining a realistic history of the relationship's ups & downs, in order that you at some point can present to him some "new person" - in order to burn down the old relationship and start a new one with a new dynamic. We, for example, had a lot of me being the "parental" partner, me being "right" about everything, me being "in control", me being the "responsible" one... etc. This led to him, basically, insidiously, subconsciously, feeling like crap about himself. It wasn't equal. It wasn't adult. It wasn't fair. I didn't MEAN for it to get that way, but over 10 years of addiction issues with him, I began year by year to take on that "parental" role, that responsible, capable role. And undermine everything he suggested in the meantime.

That's just an example from my own marriage of some behavior that I really had to come to terms with, accept that I felt that way, that it was unfair to him, that OW felt he was a hero & the greatest thing since sliced bread, and treated him that way. He liked/loved being in the rescuer role. On one hand I like the idea of being "rescued"/taken care of; but on the other hand I've always been very independent, capable, and self-sufficient. Not exactly the "dumsel in distress" that Pittman talks about, which my FWH laughs at as describing FOW so aptly.

If his #1 need is Recreational Companionship I have a question for you.

In what ways did you meet this need in the past?

In what ways did you NOT meet this need in the past?

I.E. What are you common interests, what are things he enjoys that you do not, and vice versa?

What are interests of his that you would be able/enthusiastic about learning more about and doing with him?

How do you think OW is meeting his need for Recreational Companionship? Are there hobbies/interests of his that she does with him (and I don't mean sex)? If this is indeed his #1 need (which needs to be defined by him, not you, but you probably have a good idea after being married), then he has not been having it met with you the way OW is meeting it, triggering those "being in love" feelings in him, which has led to the A, and the abandonment of your family.

That is some initial "homework" for you to work on independent of him, that if you come up with some good answers will eventually give you something new and fresh and positive to show him when he moves from the "hostility" stage to the "confusion" stage (my own terms based on my own experience and the experiences I read here). It is common in the early stages for the WH to be very hostile toward the BS, blaming them for everything. Over time, this usually gives way to sheer confusion during Plan A. That's where 180 rule 23 (don't aruge with him) can move him in to confusion out of hostility even faster. Arguing with him prolongs the hostility, feeds it. You don't want to do that. Once he's no longer hostile, but is more confused (on the fence, as we call it here at MB), then he will be much more interested in hearing about your new revelations and self-discoveries about your relationship. Let HIM be the one to call YOU about talking about the relationship, etc. though, don't push it on him now, it's too early and he's too in the fog.

Be patient. Wait.

MSA

I now know that I didn't meet this need in the past. I thought he wanted to do things with his buddies. But now he says he wanted me to do those things with him. And honestly, he's more athletic than I, and I've taken a hard look at myself recently and noted that I didn't join the gym when he wanted to, or go bike riding or skiing. I'm not against trying those things, but I didn't know he really needed me to do them with him. That is where she comes in. She works out at his gym, she went skiing with him last weekend. She's physcially compatible with him.


We used to dance alot. But I have to admit that over the past year, we stopped, or more acurately, I stopped. I hve to admit that I have not been "fun", I've been tied up with life, work, kids, housebuilding, etc. Funny thing was that I was going to give him dance lessons for christmas.

I'm willing to learn/try anything that we may be able to do together. But how do we do activities together if he won't invite me?

Interesting tid-bit I just found out... H voluntarily acknowledged there were rumors at work about him and OW, but denies EA/PA. He says he's been "hanging out" with her and 3 other ladies who are all going through the same thing. They either just left or were left by their H. I asked him if he wasn't interested in any of them why he chose to hang with them instead of his guy friends. They "understand what I am going through" and support him. So he's surrounding himself with his own divorcee support group, and i guarantee that if there is not anything now, one or more of those women think there could be. If not now, I'm sure it will happen soon. I just have to figure out how to prevent it.

Hello,

One week ago today I found out by accident that my husband of 13 years has been having an affair with a former college sweetheart. A casual email from her mother sparked conversation which led to the affair and betrayal. I found out by going in to his email to print a hotel confirmation for a trip we were going to take. On his email were several postings from a woman with suggestive headings. When I read them and saw the exchanges between the 2 (which included "I love you" and "the beginning of the rest of our lives") I thought I would die. The clincher was the flight reservation receipt for a business trip that my husband took and included her. Paying for this with OUR hard earned money. Needless to say I am devasted. I confronted him and he at first denied it until I provided the proof. He says he does not love me anymore and feels nothing for me. He says she is "different" but can't explain what that means. I have heard a lot of "I don't knows" in the last week. He says he wants to explore options - staying with me and our 11 year old daughter or divorcing and go with HER. We have had one joint marriage counseling session and are going today for separate sessions with the therapist.

My questions:
How do I compete with a younger, probably more attractive woman who has no kids at home, no repsonsiblities and no worries or stress of owning a business?

How do I get him to see that it is different because she has the time and energy to tell him how wonderful he is and jump in the sack with him all the time - we spend every waking moment working or running our daughter around?

How do I get him to see that he never said a word to me that he needed anything different from our relationship and while he was telling her he loved her, he was also telling me?

How do I get him to see that normal, moral, caring people do not have affairs and when one knowingly puruses a married man with a family, it is not right and shows an extreme selfish personality?

How do I get from minute to minute? How do I breathe and function?

How do I look forward, knowing I will be alone and he will be with her?


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Payton,
I copied your post to a new one on this same forum. That way others will see your post if they are not following this one.

Payton, I'm so sorry this is happening to you and to all of us. Your questions echo in my mind as the same thoughts and fears I'm going through. I hope we can find our answers and save our marriages. I pray every day that God will heal my family, but I know that H must open his heart to God first. I will pray for you and your family.