Hi everyone, I have been struggling with my husbands porn issue for about a month now. He has looked at it since I have known him (we have been together 4 years, married for 1 year), and at first I was ok with it and let him have his "private" time because I would like to think I am a supportive, understanding woman. Well he got his own emial address earlier this year (he was new to that kind of thing) and had a single guy friend at work telling him all about these websites and places to meet women...so one day I was checking email and I decided to check his and found that he had joined adultfriendfinder.com, and also had been to the Married But Looking in *our state* websites. I was CRUSHED. I got so upset about it I stewed on it for a few days then finally confronted him with it, because I thought he was ready to cheat or leave, that I had gotten too fat or there was something he needed that I wasn't giving him. So we talked about it and he said that he was just looking and there was nothing for me to worry about, that I was looking way to much into it, he said that if he didn't want to spend the rest of his life with me he wouldn't have married me. So I calmed down and told him that I didn't think we had sex enough (sorry but once a week just doesn't seem like enough) and that I would do anything for him, I am very comfortable with myself sexually and I am pretty adventurous so I couldn't figure out why he needed to resort to this to get his kicks. He told me that sometimes he didn't want to have sex, that he just wanted to watch porn. I can't believe it, guys please help me, why would you not want to have sex? I have tried to deal with this and not bug him about it but I can't stand it, we have wonderful sex and it bothers me that we don't do it more often (he even said he thought it was great we had sex as much as we did, and that he was happy with it). This has totally ruined my self esteem, I have gained about 40 pouds in the 4 years we have been a couple and when he looks at that stuff I feel so ugly like I have to compete with those women. I have joined a gym and gone on a diet since our little issue, and have lost 10 pounds so far. I keep trying to do sexy things for him and we even have sex twice a week now (at least he's trying to do better) but now I find MORE PORN laying around (new magazines and then a new video this week) now that we are having more sex. What's the deal? Someone please help I am so insecure and depressed right now I just don't understand why this is happening. Thanks for your time.

I am right there with you, except my H hid it and lied about it. This was the third time, and it was not through his admittion, I had to find it on my own.

My advice would be to not drop the issue, but be cautious as to how you proceed. He must realize how bothered by this you are. My H and I have been together for over ten years, and our marriage is on thin ice. Things are good right now but I'm not willing to take any more bull poop from him and I'm almost waiting for things to fall apart again. I can almost guarantee that he is going to make it as if you are blowing things out of proportion, but don't let him sway you. If this REALLY bothers you then it must be dealt with.

You must be careful and respectful when you discuss the issue, though. The second time that my H and I fought over this, I yelled, screamed, cried, threatened, etc. Basically, made life he// for him, and I "won". He got rid of what he had. Over the years, he made comments about it, saying he was a "child" and "wasn't allowed to have adult stuff". I handled it more like a control issue, and he was resentful and ended up doing it again and lied about it. He didn't WANT to see that it was hurtful to me, he just saw that he was being controlled and didn't like it.

Try to have a heart to heart with him. Read up on the Love Busters and do what ever you must to NOT do them. It'll turn into a control war and I would put money on it that he'll say whatever you want to HEAR, but things won't change, he'll just hide it better.

Your not alone!! You are not blowing things out of proportion!! You are not crazy, insecure, etc.!!

I understand what you are saying, he doesn't like to be controlled and is VERY stubborn and strong willed, and he didn't delete the emails until we had a fight about it and I told him if he wasn't going to quit looking at the one website that I would add my own profile on it and see how he likes it, and he said you know what, I will just delete my entire email and have everything sent to our joint email account so you can monitor it. Well then I felt like a controlling b**ch, which I try hard NOT to be. But at least he cared enough to stop with the internet part of it, I told him when he got online and went to those sites, that they were for MEETING people and that it really bothered me, he said I know what they are for I was just looking....to me that is just going too far because you can get sucked into it whether you mean to or not, and he could end up meeting someone or who knows what. He did tell me that his addiction to porn was hard to get over and that it was like a drug addict coming off of drugs....and that's understandable, but why does he have to use that for fun instead of being intimate? Anyway I appreciate your response, I want to fill out the questionnaires on this website with him but he's a no-nonsense "that's a bunch of crap" kind of guy so he will probably think I am being a ninny......*sigh*

It can't hurt to ASK him to fill them out. Your H sounds alot like mine, and I got mine to fill the questionaire out. I approached it very non-threateningly and explained that it was so that I could find out how to make HIM happier. I actually learned a few things about my H that I didn't know. He also got to see, in writing, how unhappy I am/was, why, and what he could do, if he chose to, to make things better. So far, he has been doing things that are helping to improve my attitude and feelings towards him.

Has he seen a counsellor about the porn addiction? Luckily, my H doesn't seem to be addicted, but from other posts that I have read, if it is truely an addiction, then professional help is probably neccessary.

Have you read the 2 articles here on this site about this subject? They are very incitful & offer good advise. Sorry but I'm not to sure how to link you directly to them...you can search "porn" on this site and get to the article tho.

Hi I think the main thing that has come from conselling on this issue is that although we dont have the right to tell our husbands what to view (nor should we want to) we have EVERY right to decide whether we want someone who uses this material that disrespects us and all women in our lives. It is not about an ultimatum, it is about deciding what we want and then sticking to it.
Think hard, if he chooses to continue porn are you happy to live with that or do you expect more from a life partner? If you decide you cant live with it, calmly let him know the decsion is his but should he choose porn that is something you do not want and will not choose to have in your life. We need to take control of our lives and be empowered in a situation that seeks to disempower us as women.

It is his decsion and his choice, if he chooses porn be confident that you are repsecting yourself and your values.

If our husband dont make the choice themselves to give this up it is neither our faults nor our repsonsibilty.

If we stay in relationships that we feel disrespect and hurt us then that is our responsibility.

I know it doesnt seem fair, especially when many women say their husbands told them in the beginning that they did not use porn or have hidden it from them but unfortunately we need to make these decsions in life.
from what I am reading there are plenty of guys out there who dont need porn to madstervbate (and I think that nearly all men masterbate, which isnt an issue for me but the porn is). There are also pleanty of guys who find this stuff disrespectful to women and do not lust after fake implanted bodies but rather lust after real life experiences. (I know when I find one of these guys I will have no problem lusting after him either lol)
Personally I dont want a h who feels pressured to give up because he wil just behave like a child about it anyway, but I also dont want a h who uses it, so I guess unless he chooses to give it up himself I will be moving on to something better.

Your story is pretty heart wrenching. My condolences. Since you asked, let me see if I can try to provide you with my view point. Please do not be offended.


Of course a spouse should always take seriously anything that would jeopardize the marriage. You have every right to be upset, and do everything in your power to stop such behavior. However, it may be harmless (no, I am not excusing his behavior, and find it unacceptable even if “harmless”): it appears that it is just a novelty, and he is using it as a videogame in his immature fantasy world. If he has not given you any reason to suspect that he would cheat, such a behavior does not necessarily an indication that he would cheat on you.


It seems very strange to me too; I’d pick my W over porn every time. But let me try to go on a limb to try to guess why an otherwise happy and healthy would do that:

(1) Laziness. If in order to get a partner sexually turned on a guy has to talk with her for half an hour to take her mind off her everyday pressures, then give her a massage for 20 minutes to get her in the mood, then pleasure her for another 30 minutes to get her sexually excited, he may feel that he is working too hard and too long. Yes, it may be pleasurable for him, but he is able to get off to porn with much less effort; with porn it is 5-10 minutes from start to finish. Of course to a woman that long prelude is essential, or at least very desirable way to connect with her mate, but to a guy it may be an arduous necessary journey to SF.

(2) Boredom. It is possible that after making love to a woman couple of times a week, the same way, the same routine, that he may get a little bored. The excitement of making love is gone, and now it is just the same-o, same-o. Porn may provide that escape into fantasy land.

I think the adultfriendfinder is inappropriate for sure. But maybe it was curiosity-- sort of like you might browse personal ads on the net once in a blue moon out of curiosity of what kind of yahoos have their ad up on the net and what kind of things they say to try and get a date. But he is playing with fire and I would still tend to be suspicious and not let the issue die as simply as "I was just browsing".

The porn itself, you are responding like most women that I know towards porn. They compare themselves or think that it somehow means that they are not good enough to fufill him completely-- that something is lacking. But that typically is not how the guy is feeling or is thinking.

Porn as with masterbation can be a liberating sort of thing. Sometimes it's nice to be able to satisfy yourself on your terms without worrying if your partner is getting satisfied too. It's just very simple and uncomplicated and similar to "alone time". There's many aspects to it but TYPICALLY in the mind of the guy, it's not all that harmful of a thing.

But few women can accept this and tend to have the feelings which you are having now which is to feel that you need to compete. So if you just can not handle it, I think it's fine to demand that he stop. He will feel a little bit of loss of his freedom at first but he won't miss it that much eventually.

So my 2 cents on it is that (with the exception of the dating type of sites), porn in itself is probably fine to allow your husband to view and you not need feel that you have to compete with it. But if you are not able to get to that point, then your husband should give it up.

Hey SC,

(we have the same nicname initials! Cool!) Unfortuanately, I'm very pressed for time at the moment so I won't have a chance to fully explain my post right now, but I'll try to check back in a few days and add information if I need to.

It is my opinion - and just my opinion -- that you should be very wary of advice from Average Guy and Wasp when it comes to porn. Read some of the other treads on this topic and you'll probably see what I mean. They are very good at MAKING EXCUSES for men who use porn.

Wasp just wrote that if YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT, you should make him stop. I say Bull Sh--! This is not your problem, it's your husband's. It should not be turned around on you!

Average has staunchly defended the use of porn in other threads -- unless, as he has stated, it interferes with the sex life of a couple. Now he's trying to make excuses for your husband EVEN THOUGH your husband has admitted that he'd sometimes rather get off to porn than be with you! Disgusting!!!! And I find his summary of what a woman needs to get in the mood to be exaggerated and, frankly, insulting. Obviously, he didn't even take the time to read your post closely enough to know that you stated that you're not into the "same-o same-o" but are a willing, adventurous participant.

Listen guys, I'm not trying to attack you. Wasp -- I believe you in particular are really just trying to help. These are open forums and all opinions are welcome, but I'm just trying to suggest to SC that she need not give all opinions the same weight.

It might surprise you to know that I have watched some porn myself, and find it quite arousing. As I have stated in other threads, it may very well be possible in a committed relationship for one or more of the members to occasionally use porn without making the other feel threatened. HOWEVER, it is quite clear to me, SC, that your husband has crossed the line. The fact that he has admitted that he would sometimes rather use it than be with you, and has admitted that he's having trouble giving up his self-proclaimed addiction are giant red flags in my opinion (actually, the fact that he's honest about it is probably a good sign, but...)

My husband -- a wonderful human being -- used to use porn occasionally, to fill the gap between SF with me. Yes, it's easier to get off to porn than put the effort into the real thing (Duh!). And over time, as we started having children started working oposite schedules, it just became TOO easy.
Eventually, it replaced me all together, and it took me having an affair to put a stop to it (not that I planned it that way, but again, I'm in a rush here). SC, sounds to me like your husband could easily be headed down the same path. It doesn't mean he's a horrible person. BUT HE HAS A PROBLEM. HE NEEDS TO OWN UP TO IT AND GET HELP. PROFESSIONAL HELP.

I wish you all the best. This is a tough demon to fight, but you can do it. By the way, I think lmjs and NTT gave you some very good advice.

--SC

The thing that frustrates me is that I am conveying my point of view. And a fairly balanced point of view in my opinion. I'm not saying "you have to accept porn!" I'm not bulldozing with the male perspective and disregarding the female perspective. I'm taking both into account.

But you come along behind me and say "your side is just an excuse. Men don't really think the way that you say. They actually secretly think girls in porn are better and think of them when they have sex and they compare it to a wife's body". And you bulldoze over me with your female perspective.

Why can't it be that males and females think very differently about it and try and decide what solution is the most ethical or makes the two the happiest.

Last night I read chapter 3 of HN/HN and it talked about the differences in male and female reactions to sex. Understanding that a guy's sex drive goes to zero after climax for example helps a woman understand that he is not rejecting her. Rather it is a biological thing and he will be back soon. Conversely, a man understanding that a woman falls back into the plateau phase after climax helps him understand that it is an important time to hold her and show affection because her sex drive works differently. What Dr Harley is trying to do is allow each to understand the mind-set of the other so that they can be more compatible." I sincerely believe that is my approach with this porn topic. I am saying "males tend to feel this way about it" "women seem to tend to feel this way about it". Now let's see what we can work out. Instead of "you males are a bunch of liars; there's no way you can think about porn the way you say you do".

Posts like these are pretty discouraging. The original poster asked “I can't believe it, guys please help me, why would you not want to have sex?”
I emphasized with her, offered my condolences and tried to answer her query. I certainly am NOT making any excuses for the original poster’s H’s behavior. I just tried to explain it, and not excuse it. As a matter of fact, I am pretty exasperated when someone like smartcookie criticizes me wrongly, and yet fails to offer an alternative explanation for original poster’s H’s behavior. I dunno... maybe I am not making myself very clear.



I have no idea why smartcookie has a problem with wasp’s suggestion. wasp plainly stated that if porn bothers the original poster, then the original poster’s H should stop using it. It is not bullsh-- but simply one way of resolving this problem. Wasp suggestion that the original poster’s H should stop using the use of porn makes H go out of his way to do something for his wife. I think that wasp should be praised for his suggestion, and not criticized.

The alternative is for the original poster to accept her H’s use of porn, just like the majority of wives in our society. The original poster and her H should put their heads together, and be able to come up with a solution to this problem that is obviously problematic in their marriage.



I stand by that. It makes perfect sense, and maintains a good marital relationship. Tell me smartcookie, if a guy wants sex 5 times a week, and his W only 1/week, then what do you suggest? Should he
(1) force his wife to submit to him more often, and have her serve him sexually more then she would be comfortable;
(2) be sexually unfulfilled and frustrated, resent wife's lack of low sexual drive, wonder if he should have married her in the first place, and even wonder if he can get a little side action going or; or
(3) devote 10 minutes couple of times a week to porn and get on with his life?
The answer in that case is clear.



I most certainly am NOT making excuses. As a matter of fact, just the opposite: I condemn her H’s use of porn in her case. I am simply answering the original poster’s query.



Yes, I exaggerated it to make a point. If smartcookie does not realize that women generally take longer to get aroused then men, then she needs to read something about it on this website. If smartcookie is insulted by my description of how some men (not me or necessarily original poster’s H), then she just does not want to face how shallow some guys are, and blames me for bringing it into the discussion.

In any case, if smartcookie would take time to read MY post, she would realize that I was trying to find the cause of why guys do that and not why her H does it (the switch from 2nd person singular to 3rd person singular was not just a literary device to make things interesting). I do not know her H, but I can relate to guy’s feelings on this subject.



As smartcookie wrote: Bull sh--. smartcookie has not validated my views nor my feelings, called my explanations insulting instead of reading them, called wasp’s comments as bull sh--, etc. How much more insulting does she think that she can be before it is deemed an attack?

Yeah, right. "Listen to me, don’t listen to them!"? I think that SC is smart enough to figure this out by herself.



No, it does not. But of course when smartcookie writes that it is OK to use porn in a committed relationship she is right, but when I write the same thing, then I am wrong....



So, now we get to the heart of smartcookie’s sensitivity. Yes, it is much easier for one to blame porn use of the other partner for one’s own affair then to take responsibility for one’s own actions. Porn as a scapegoat? “I blame porn for my cheating”? Is she serious?

I would agree with her that 'some' men don't think that way. So to her, it could be a valid arguement. I look at some on the things you and others have posted about porn and I see them as 'justifications' for poor actions, however, that is going by my value system and my morals.


Wasp, I think it would be better if you simply said "I FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT IT". Not all males feel the way you do. I, personally, am opposed to porn from pretty much every direction. That does not make me less of a male, just that you and I have different perspectives as males. But last I checked, no one elected either you or I as the Official Spokesman for the Male Species....

PS.... AverageGuy... I must admit, I've seen a dramatic change in your communication skills of the past month. Granted we all need to vent every now and then, but wanted to let you know, that I definately see a difference.

We obviously don't see eye to eye on the matter of porn however, based on some of your earlier posts on the matter I was quite impressed with your newer ones.....

It really does not matter how you, or wasp or myself feel about it. What matters is how the original poster's H feels about it, so that the original poster can understand it, so that she can start to traverse the problem of porn in her M. And we do not know what he thinks or feels. We can only extrapolate it from what guys generally feel and think. wasp's explanation of male behavior based on guys is more accurate prediction of original poster's H's situation than an extrapolation from your, wasp's, of mine feelings and thinking. Extrapolation from one datapoint is not really the best way to go....

BTW, you do not need to be a spokesperson for anyone to be able to make a simple observation. If I say "dogs have 4 legs, bark and chase their tails", am I a spokesperson for dogs?

Can you tell me what the dog is thinking while is chases it's tail and barks. For some it may be fun, for some it may be an itch, for some it may be that they are just really stupid and really bored.

Observations on outside issues are wonderful, but saying the male species feels this way or that way is not accurate.

AG 'I stand by that. It makes perfect sense, and maintains a good marital relationship. Tell me smartcookie, if a guy wants sex 5 times a week, and his W only 1/week, then what do you suggest? Should he
(1) force his wife to submit to him more often, and have her serve him sexually more then she would be comfortable;
(2) be sexually unfulfilled and frustrated, resent wife's lack of low sexual drive, wonder if he should have married her in the first place, and even wonder if he can get a little side action going or; or
(3) devote 10 minutes couple of times a week to porn and get on with his life?


As I have stated 1000 times before ....the fact that masterbation may be a suitable option where one partners sex drive exceeds the other does not make porn OK......


WHY DO SUPPORTERS OF PORN CONTINUE TO USE MASTERBATION AS AN ARGUEMENT....


Men can masterbate without porn. Its all a matter of respect....if a man respects his wife and knows she dislikes porn he will not use it ...simple...

If a mans wifes says she doesnt mind but he is aware that many women find it degrading and is informed of the social issues surrounding porn then it is up to him to use his conscience to make the decision whether he wishes to be a supporter of the porn industry through his consumption......

I'm not even sure what brought me to this board, as I usually remain over on the divorce board. But this topic struck a nerve...

I was married to a man who, among being addicted to other things, was addicted to porn. It started out small...magazines, pictures in books, etc. But with his introduction to the internet it got worse and worse.

And not only was it an issue because it made me feel like I wasn't enough for him, but over the course of time our sex life went to near nothing (we'd go weeks or even months at a time--9 months once) with him avoiding sex. However, at the same time he was shutting himself in the bedroom for hours at a time on a semi-regular basis viewing his porn and doing things that required less time and effort than making love to a woman. (Actually in his case, I think it wasn't so much the time and effort involved but that he didn't have to put forth any emotional intimacy with porn.)

Furthermore, the porn went from more just nudity at first, to more sexual porn as time progressed (movies and mpg clips) to really hard core stuff at the end of our marriage involving women and animals. It was sickening.

No, the porn wasn't what broke up our marriage. But I see nothing but destruction in it. It doesn't make the woman in the marriage feel good about herself, and if there's a difference in the amount of sex the two partners need, I think there are ways around that other than porn. If the woman doesn't want to have sex, how about she helps him with "release" instead of him doing it to porn? Or how about he practices a little self control? Or how about they figure out why they have the differences and come to a happy medium, with both giving and taking a bit? Isn't a marriage about being able to compromise for the greater good of the relationship sometimes?

My final thought: If the husband needs "release" at times when the wife just can't or won't for whatever reason have sex with him, how about instead of true porn, they get out the digital camera and take some pictures or movie clips of her or themselves for him to view on the computer, instead of going to the porn sites. (And it can be kinda' fun to do, too.)

LL

ps... Can you tell me what the dog is thinking while is chases it's tail and barks. For some it may be fun, for some it may be an itch, for some it may be that they are just really stupid and really bored.

In my dog's case, it's because she's really stupid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I am sorry, letmejustsay. You are right. There is a difference between porn and masturbation, and we really do need to separate the two issues. I’ll be more careful between these two related, but not necessarily the same issues.

And I understand your viewpoint that porn industry is degrading to women. It certainly is a valid point. But misogynistic nature of porn is NOT the root cause of the problem, I think. I think that the problem with ShabbyChic’s H is that his use of porn has caused ShabbyChic not to have her ENs fulfilled. She states that she can’t believe that he does not want to have sex with him, that it has totally ruined her self esteem, that she feels ugly, that she is insecure, etc. Basically, if I read her post correctly, it appears that he replaced sex with ShabbyChic with the use of porn. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that it is his use of porn that has caused the problem, not the misogynistic nature of porn. In other words, it really does not matter if he neglects her needs because he uses porn, or because he goes out with friends, or because he works long hours. What matters that he is not making her the center of his universe.

If her question would have been: my H thinks that women should not be in the workplace, that women should be subservient to men, that women should not vote, that women should wear burkas, etc., then the degradation of women as exhibited by porn magazines would be germane. But I do not think that it is relevant to the problem in ShabbyChic’s case.

In any case, letmejustsay, I do not think that you, I, wasp, and others really disagree what needs to happen in ShabbyChic’s case in order for her to have a good marriage. The use of porn in her marriage appears to be the root cause of her H’s neglect of her EN. She really does need to put her foot down, and insist that he needs to take care of her, and not replace her with a trashy magazine. It does sound that they have to get rid off porn from their life.

Am I wrong?

WASP,


I don't see where you got this from my post. I actually think your explanations of the different ways men and women view/think about porn are GENERALLY on target. I objected to the phrase "if you can't handle it..." Bottome line here is that the original poster WAS handling it (to use your phrase) until it started interfering with their sex life and her H crossed the line into the "meeting people" rehlm of things. Plus, he himself refered to it as an "addiction" and stated that he was having a hard time giving it up. If that's the case, do you really think it's wise to advise her to come to terms with it and allow him to dabble in it? In her particular case, I don't think that's an option. Just my opinion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Respectfully,
--SC

AG,

Here we go again...


Wanna give a citation for that "statement of fact"?



Thank you for later conceding that a man doesn't necessarily need to use porn to take care of business. And let me once again point out that a difference in sex drive was not part of the issue for the original poster.



Okay, fair enough. Though it would have been nice to see you put equal effort into your condemnation as you did into your explanation.






My humble apologies.




Listen, here's what concerned me about your and WASP's back to back posts. I felt as though there was a danger that they could be interpreted as justifications for Sabby's H's behavior. The OVERALL message seemed to be -- here's why guys use porn, here's why you gals shouldn't feel threatened. I did not want Shabby to start thinking that maybe she was overreacting. I think we all agree that in her case, her husband has a problem and crossed the line. The two posts from you guys collectively focused a lot of why guys GENERALLY use porn, and how it can be okay if it doesn't get out of hand. I understand that you were answering her direct question. However, I was also reading your posts from the perspective of a woman who's husband crossed the line and allowed porn to take my place. Just as Shabby's husband seems to be doing. Under those circumstances, it is somewhat helpful to hear general explainations of the porn pheomenon... but what we really need is reasurance that we are not overreacting because we "just can't handle it."




No, I'm simply asking you to stay focused on the original poster's situation. In her case, her husband stated that it was an addiction, and that he was having a hard time giving it up. This changes the picture dramatically, don't you think? It may not be possible for this man to dabble in porn without getting overwhelmed by it. The signs are certainly there.




I have never tried to hide the root of my sensitivity on this issue. No, I do not BLAME porn for my cheating. That was a horrible choice I made all by myself. However, it is a FACT that nothing I did or said PRIOR to the affair got my husband's attention enough to make him stop. Now he has.
(That, of course, is a gross oversimplification of my situation. But I think I've threadjacked enough for one day)

It's possible that Shabby has a chance to nip this in the bud now. Because if she allows it to spiral out of control the way it did in my marriage, I don't see a lot of hope. That was the reason for my 'emergency' post yesterday. I really am sorry if it sounded harsh or condescending. Believe me when I say that it came from a true sense of urgency to help Shabby before it's too late.

Shabby, a question for you if you're still here. Please let us know if these debates back and forth are HELPFUL or DRIVING YOU AWAY. This is your thread, and if this is not helpful to you, we should "take it outside".

--SC