Nope. Not Mrs. Fields!

That's the "stormy" part of my PAST relationship with XW.
I used to be the hot headed Italian, wore my heart on my sleeve, said what I thought kind of person. But I was also very angry and thrived on conflict.

Now, I am the voice of reason. I am calmer now and I am not angry any longer. I changed. We decided that conflict was not passion. Conflict leads to frustration which leads to anger. My anger consumed me until after the divorce. Her anger, in her own words, "made me into something I am not, a wh0re". Her anger still scares me, even now. Even if she is angry at my boys....

here's an example...I am sleeping in my chair, she is working on laptop in living room in front of me. She decides to look at internet usage (history). Pulls up a dark humored blog site I visit. On the top part of the page is an advertisement:

Adult Friend finder .com; here's some women from (insert name of hometown here)..and here's pictures of young naked women. Now, it's an advertisement only...she gets up off floor and stands over My sleeping body..."what the FU&* is this??" I look and laugh as she storms out...I try and explain...no talking, she is furious...and..next day I tell her...this was where problems started before, you need to let me talk and explain before you go to , world ending damnation mad, which is destructive. So I went to other sites that have similar advertisements. show how name of town is in our profile in Windows, how our zip codes are in cookies...she feels stupid...also feels stupid because of trust factor...I told her I was insulted, cause I was.
That type of passion is not positive...in my eyes...but we resolved it.

This is where I'll differ from some...rekindle?? Look...clearly, I am aware of rekindling...which insinuates a small fire...if you have passion for someone it is a fire storm....and I am a firm believer in there's no such thing as trying..it is either there or it is not!

Look...we definitely lost each other and if you look at some of my other posts you'll see that it has been a hideous , bumpy road...I met this woman 21 years ago...and it has been its best the last 18 months...problem was there was these multiple D-days.....and lies...and pain...but we still love each other and we're getting married on a beach in about one month.....

I'm repeating my question(s) in hopes that I'll get more responses:


One correction -- my friend has been married more like 19/20 years (Oh, how time flies!).

--SC

SC,

Maybe there IS an element of truth to that statement, hidden amongst the rude generalizations. Here is the truth in it that I see...

Maybe it is immature, to a degree. Maybe the immaturity lies with the common element of childhood trauma and the manner that those traumas can sometimes prevent intimacy in relationships. Maybe the key is to deal with the childhood traumas that have created that barrier.

Maybe they DON'T know what real love is, in the idea that perhaps they haven't experienced it yet.

I don't believe at all that future relationships are doomed. People can do whatever they set out to do.

My FWH told me recently that he didn't love me before the A. After I spent some time having my feelings hurt over that statement, I began to examine it. I think he meant that he didn't know HOW to love me until Recovery began. I think maybe he didn't understand before that it is difficult to really love someone unless you share yourself with them completely. Without that kind of openness, intimacy is difficult, if not impossible.



I, personally, do not think it is a fair assessment, either. I also don't think there is anything wrong with desiring the kind of passion you speak of in your marriage.

I do think that there is something wrong with simply waiting for it to happen without seeking it out in your marriage or learning how to eliminate the barriers that are preventing it from happening.



I think you can have that kind of passion with whomever you choose to have it with. I don't think it's a chance kind of thing.

I wish Pep would chime in here and give you the "be a vessell for your husband's love" speech that she has given me. I really can't be reminded too many times.

i don't think all people are capable of high level's of passion. i really don't.

i am not saying that is wrong or bad.

maybe that is not what SC is asking.

SC, you are asking what is wrong with wanting a high level of passion. i would like to see thoughts on this too. i also want a high level of passion but i really don't think it is possible. (which is what prompted me to write the first sentence i wrote.) and that does sadden me, but instead of focusing on wishing for it, i'm focusing on dealing with it.

and focusing on the positives that are in my marriage.

sometimes it is harder. there are a few memories that haunt me, i don't want to go into details, because i don't want to give those memories any additional prower, but due to those memories, sometimes it is very very hard.

Fl

I had high levels of passion in ONE relationship. It was a relationship that was ONLY about sex. 6 months - 3 times a day - we were giddy...but guess what - when it came to conversation or spending time together where we weren't all over eachother - we fizzled - and that relationship was done.

I don't and never have had that passion with my H. I have made love to my H and I feel the love - but it's not mind shattering passion...

I know what you are saying. I think some people can't have the balance of passion and companionship - and some people can. Is it something we can learn in our marriages? And if so - how?

Its something too - that I no longer focus on or dwell on. Cause there is love in my marriage - a deep deep love - he is my best friend. And sex is full of tenderness, and love...there is just no WOW passion if that makes sense.

SC,

I thought I would take a shot at your questions. You asked and stated
Immature and shallow...let's consider that for a second. Yes, they are probably doomed if they don't know what a vow is and cannot understand that a vow is much more than a promise. Passion in a marriage is not a requirement for real love, deep love, but it sure is nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> However, to dump someone because you lost the passion or perhaps did not have it for someone you "feel" passionate about, is often shortsighted and clearly breaks vows right.

Do you know the definition of a child versus and adult? One of the best I ever heard is:
So when immature is mentioned I am thinking this definition is in play, especially when it means breaking ones vows and cheating on their spouse. Further, when the word shallow is mentioned these same definitions sort of say it don't they?

This isn't an issue of passion so much as it is that most know that passion is not necessarily love, in fact it most often lust. Good stuff for sure, but it does NOT define a marriage. The reason we take marriage vows is because it is known that during the course of ones life there will be peaks and valleys, good times and bad and the vows are their to remind us that we signed up for ALL of it. Only children believe that life can be without blemish or pain.

So perhaps you might see why these terms are used, if only to illicit a response from someone getting ready to dump a marriage so that they can find passion.




Nothing is wrong with that. Absolutely nothing, it is great in fact, but at what cost SC? I don't mean the cost to ones spouse, I mean at what cost to yourself. Immaturity is almost defined by teenage boys doing whatever because they don't see the cost. They are bullet proof, they make great cannon fodder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Seeking passion without regard to ones vows, ones responsibilities, ones very own moral code, is actually a lot like teenage boys doing their thing at 120 mph in traffic. It is exciting, the heart is pumping, the thrill is there...until.


Absolutely, a great goal for them, but they are still together despite the lack of passion now aren't they. They are going to rekindle the passion as much as possible, but they are not going to divorce if it is not as much as it used to be.

SC, you have always claimed that your marriage had no passion. I believe you, but what you don't want to believe is that YOU and YOUR H can have passion. I am guessing he is very passionate about your marriage and yes his love for you. You just don't see it. But, you could IF you would take YOUR barriers down and if you will allow your H to take his barriers down.


Of course they are not, because they are seeking the passion within the context of their vows, without hurting another person, without hurting their marriage. They are seeking to strengthen their marriage and that is a good thing. If they are successful their children will be yelling at them [color:"red"]To RENT A ROOM [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Nope it is not off limits to you, but it should be sought within the context of your marriage not an affair. It should be sought in a manner that not only doesn't hurt your spouse, your family, but in fact makes them better, happier, and passionate about YOU as you are about THEM.

Just because you never had passion in your marriage does not mean your marriage cannot become passionate. In fact there is a whole book dedicated this very topic but unfortunately I don't recall the exact title but I believe it is called

The Passionate Marriage by Schnarnak (sp).

You don't have to start with passion to achieve passion SC, but you have to be open to the idea that it can be achieved and your H has to see the NEED for it as well.

I have had a variety of passions in my life and they have waxed and waned with time. They return and then die down. Sometimes passion is loud and boisterous, sometimes it is all consuming, and sometimes it is quiet and peaceful. All can be appreciated, all can renew you, all can be developed.

It is your call on this SC. If you allow it your H can be your hero, if you encourage it he could become your cave man <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. If you nuture it he will become consumed with you. It is your call and his call.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: In case you have not noticed, I am pretty passionate about this site and marriages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Froz and JL,

Wow! You've given me a lot to think about. I'm still trying to absorb it all, and when I do, you know I'll have follow-up questions/comments. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I'm also going to work on that definition, as much for myself as anyone. I think it's important.

At the moment, though, I'm pretty focused on some of my personal recovery issues (Don't worry, I'm still working hard to "love as a verb" my H. And he's very understanding that I need to channel some energy into my personal junk). Just had my second IC session on Tuesday. Another tough one. First time I've ever told anyone certain details about the chSA, so it's pretty rough, but I feel like I'm making some progress at least.

Anyway, thanks again for your responses. I'll be back soon.

--SC

Awesome post, JL.

Okay, here goes:

Passion.

Let's take "sex" out of the equation for the moment. Because quite frankly, for the last couple of months, Cookie Monster and I have been having some pretty darn good sex. Probably better than it ever was before. But that, to me, is not the same thing as passion.

Passion, to me, would look something like this:

WANTING to run to the door and plant one on him when he comes home from work, rather than doing it just because I know I SHOULD.

Thinking of him FIRST whenever anything exciting or interesting happens to me, and being eager to tell him all about it the first chance I get.

Feeling eager to listen to what he has to say -- about whatever -- something he learned, the events of his day, how he's feeling.

Having the time of my life doing something fun, and looking over at him and thinking, "There's nobody else on the face of the earth I'd rather share this moment with. God- I love this man!"

Sharing a really good, deep, belly laugh just between the two of us.

Feeling fiercely loyal, and ready to do battle (at least verbally) with anyone who dares criticize him.

Eagerly anticipating time alone together.

Missing him when he's not around. Especially for extended periods of time.

Feeling energized and excited when planning a nice surprise for him -- whether it be as big as a surprise birthday party, or as simple as a meaningful little gift or a quiet night alone together.

Getting a little jolt from time to time when we make eye contact, or he affectionately slaps my butt, or whatever.

And caring enough about him to get really ticked-off when the situation warrants it.

I'm sure I could add to the list if I really gave it some thought, but there's the jist of it.

Bottom line -- A passionate relationship to me is one that, on balance, is more ENERGIZING than DRAINING. One that makes you WANT to give and share, rather than feeling REQUIRED to do so. That's what I so desperately want.

--SC

SC,

You will get that. But, as I have read in Scripture...feelings come after doing. You do the things, so that you may feel them. Not feel them before you do them.

It will take time. There has been damage there. Teh fact you are getting along this well (and having great sex!!) is a testament to the two of you "doing." did you read SAA? Remember how the gal and guy i nthere (forgot their names) said that they just kept doign what Dr. Harley was telling them to do? How they didnt really feel it, but agreed to do the right things anyway? To do the things that filled the other's EN needs?

And then one day, they both woke up and found themselves in love. And they had the feelings you are talking about.

It is a time issue now, SC. Continue to do the things you are, and Cookie Monster continue to do the things he needs to. And this will get better. The ole love bank will begin to overflow. And you will become what you seek.

As ForeverHers posted recently, there is no try...there is only "do." As you do, the feelings will follow. Cant say when they will. Might take awhile. Might not. But they will!

In His arms.

Hi Smartcookie,
I highly suggest you read Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch-JL mentioned it-and I read it about a year or so ago because Pepperband posted some wonderful stuff about the effect the book had on her.
I think it will help you find your passion by giving you concrete steps to get back true intimacy w/ your husband. I understand there are other issues in your past, but many topics in the book will help you to overcome the defense mechanisims your past abuse caused you to develop. It is a life changing book-it deals with sexual topics, but also things like "normal marital sadism"-how its normal to want to hurt your partner. For me, this book put all the missing pieces in place and helped me tremendously.

Mortarman -- YOU ARE SO FULL OF BALONEY, I CAN'T EVEN STAND IT ANYMORE!!! YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

(Okay, I'm just kidding. I was just worried that, what with your growing fan club around here, you might be getting to big for your britches. Thought I'd try to scare you a little, just for fun. teehee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)

SA -- Thanks for the suggestion on the book. Sounds like just what the doctor ordered. I've heard Schnarch is kidna hard to read though. What did you think about that?

--SC

I don't know about hard to read, but I really had to concentrate. Its not something you can do with the TV on and kids running around. One night I couldn't put it down and stayed up until 3 am. It covers so many different dynamics of the relationship, its very interesting.