L_C,

You've GOT to get some self control going here. There has to be a point here VERY soon where you draw some boundary lines for yourself and then stick to them. He's controlling you like a puppet. It won't matter what advice you get from anyone here if you don't have the self control and strenth to follow through on what you determine is best for you and your future.

Just a friendly 2x4 from a friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep posting. This is a process. You'll get the hang of it sooner or later but let's try to make it sooner.

-Fluke

I am so sorry for your pain Lost.

He just confirmed, what you knew all along in your heart. So, chin up, and prepare to fight for your marriage, because right now, all the effort is going to be on your part.

I know it is hard to do, but you need to gain control of your emotions. You need to think with your head, and not with your heart.

Don't follow your instincts, unfortunately, the betrayed are predictable too, and without the coaching of those that have been there and done that, they can follow their instincts, become clingy, needy and emotional, which only drives the w/s to run the other way, as fast as possible.

What is your plan?

What are you going to do to make yourself more attractive to your spouse?

What is your spouse's emotional needs?

Have you exposed to all parties that could make a difference?

Have you worked on the problems your husband has complained about?

You have some great posters giving you some advice. Keep us all posted with what is going on.


Sincerely,

K.D's Heartbreak

Breathe deep and relax a little. Self-control is vital. I found this place 2 months after D-day and did everything wrong.

It is EXREMELY difficult not to lash out, but will be best in the end. Just think of talking to your husband as talking to a drug addict.

Actually, I got Melody's post after he left. I just didn't know. My friend was not here yet and he was gone before she got here so it was okay, very irritating. Next time I know. He is calling Sunday to set up a time for Monday to come over and get his computer/desk and I have stuff to do so he will have to wait until I get home about 12. I do not want to be a doormat.

Anyway, we talked a little about finances. What he is telling me is unrealistic. He says he will pay for the cell bill. My part is only $20 as a secondary, but I am still on the account and feel I need access to confirm it being paid(haven't told him that) He wants me to pay him for my part of the car insurance and I want to separate it, but I have not told him that yet. He wants me to keep the bank account, and I can take him off if I want he says because his school loan comes out of that account(well, then move it?) and he said he would transfer $300/month into it for me and to pay his school loan. He is just being too "nice", I am waiting for the axe to fall. Also, I make more money, but he is sending me extra? He overdraws our account all the time and now he will be living without my income and sending me extra money?

****He has been checking the mail. I am going to ask for the key on MOnday. He is expecting checks and money cards, but so am I. It freaked me out when he told me today. Gee, fill out a change of address card, I will hold your mail for you.

He told me there were still things he wanted to do for me. He wants to make me the pendant out of the piece of colloidial silver we bought a couple of months ago and there was more, but..

"I love you and don't want to hurt you, but I love her too." and "I said and that is what makes it and affair. It is what it is."

Then I said I truly hoped he would go to counselling and he said he would and he hoped that I would continue also. I said I was. He said for me to call his work when I ran out that I can get 10 more sessions there. I said that when he had some counselling and got some stuff figured out that maybe we could go together.

I have been very calm and collected and I have not broken down crying in front of him since a night a few weeks ago when he was not home and my mom was coming to get me and I got hysterical because I thought she had left(long story not important), but she came to the door and was trying to calm me down to get me out and he came home(this was the day after I found him at her house).

I am trying to gain control of my emotions. Honestly, it is when I am by myself when it is worse. I can speak to him calmly as long as I have not had any wine at all so I have been very careful.

My instincts are telling me that he is just trying to manipulate me. He is just being too nice. It is freaking me out. I think he believes that being so sweet and nice that I will just decide that we can all be friends and happy again....meaning with OW.

When we talk about the financial situation again, I think probably Tuesday night I am going to have sat down and figured out how much my insurance will cost me by myself and his and write up a document that states that he will pay my cell bill, continue to pay my health insurance, transfer his school loan and then pay whatever extra to me monthly that he agrees to at that time. Why should his school loan come out of "my account"?

What is your plan?
*****Right now, I don't really have one. I have to see what happens on Monday. I am starting to clean tomorrow though.

What are you going to do to make yourself more attractive to your spouse?
****Well, I will do my hair and wear pants and a shirt instead of PJs. Physically I cannot do anything else short of surgical. Due to the weightloss, I have about 10 pounds of extra skin on my abdomen, but it doesn't show with clothes. It bothers him, he has told me that, but not much I can do right now.

What is your spouse's emotional needs?
***Definately admiration-I think this is a big one.
***Conversation-another biggie-been lacking for a long time
***Recreational companionship-lacking, He has been flip flopping. The end of last year he got mad because I was going horseback riding on one of our days off with a friend(male, 65)him and his wife are like 2nd parents to me. Soooo I severely limited going out riding and suggested we go do stuff.....no...because whatever. I tried and he kept coming up with reasons why we couldn't go hiking on picnic ecetera. We went fishing once and shopping/eating a few times. It was cold and we were tired, didn't catch a fish, but it was fun. Sitting in the car to warm up and eating, taking a nap, talked, laughed at the birds and took pictures. Then this summer I hurt my back at work and was on restrictions. He got mad because I wouldn't go bike riding with him even though I was not supposed to. Then he tells me a couple of days ago that I always planned stuff for us, but never let him do anything alone. What? The few times he has asked about guy trips or me meeting him at an event after a few days(because I couldn't go on the first day) it was fine. He said I would never let him do stuff alone. He never said he wanted to except those few times! I asked him why he didn't and he said it was because I would have wanted to go....well sure, but if he had said he wanted to go alone that would have been fine.
Domestic Support-very lacking
Affection-I went overboard and smothered

Have you exposed to all parties that could make a difference?
***** Yes, I am afraid so. Everyone who knows me thinks he is making the biggest mistake of his life. He fell for the oldest trick in the book. The initial impact was huge. Her mother did the most damage, but I am sure she will not say another thing. He is pretty much avoiding everyone else and now avoiding our "couple friends". Though after consistantly insisting to our "couple" friends that it wasn't an A for several days(they knew before the blow) after he told them if they had a party and invited him and the OW(also a friend) that they were not allowed to invite me. Not an A?????? That pissed them off and they said no that everyone would be invited. *****Only problem, if they have the adacity to show up what do I do if I am there too? What do I do if they are throwing it in my face?

Have you worked on the problems your husband has complained about?
*****Cut out my drinking, though he is spending $30 at the bar every night. We have talked but it has obviously been limited. ****How do I gain access to him again? At this point I do not feel I can call him. He is calling me tomorrow to set up a time to pack more stuff on Monday, but that is our main contact type, when he is getting stuff.

I just want to throw up. He is so very insecure and I think that has caused a lot of this. OW is really me 10 years ago, fun, vivacious(though manipulative B) 250 pounds with curly hair, but they have "so much more in common than we ever did" religion, music, books, the club we all belong to blah blah.

I am starting to wonder if one of our problems isn't that he just feels better about himself when there is no question that he is the most attractive out of the 2. He keeps talking about wanting to go to the gym and work out that he wants to loose 20 lbs. He would be at perfect weight then. OW is pretty, but very heavy(as was I for the first 10 years of our 13 year relationship). WH is a very attractive man. I am a very attractive woman, at least that is what everyone tells me except WH.

I have also grown significantly professionally and educationally as has he(professionally), but I think he has a problem with my independence. Why would you want someone who stayed with you because they had to? I was with him because of him not because I needed his paycheck.

Sorry, this kind of just flows out. It is kind of therapeutic.

Sorry, input?

I have been cleaning my butt off all day since 8am. I still have so much to do. Argh.

He is coming tomorrow to get computer/computer desk, desk, bookcase and a blow up mattress. He is also going to sift through his mountain of computer parts to figure out what he wants so I can throw the rest away. ****Should I clean out the desk and bookcase or should he do that? I said I would if I could.

Also, any answers for questions on my last post would be very appreciated. I am sorry it is so huge. I *** most of them.

I am reading Surviving an Affair and hope to get back to it tonight.

You are calming down, and doing very well. I think I would get separate bank accounts. You have yours and he has his own. Then his loan can come out of his.

The car insurance is probably cheaper together, but check it out.

You are doing a GREAT job cleaning the house. I think that is very important right now. I spent lots of time on my home after D-day, just to stay sane. Just keep at it, and you will get there.

Okay, so WH is supposed to be here at 12 noon. I told him to please call if he was running late and he said he would.

I am asking for the mail key back today because he has been checking the mail and that freaks me out. I have stuff coming to. This is going to piss him off.

I cleaned like mad yesterday and the house looks so much better, but still has a long way to go.

Please help me here. I do not know my boundaries with him. I am setting mine.

1. He is mad at me for exposure. How do I gain access to him again? At this point I do not feel I can call him. Can I? Should I ask?
2. Can I tell him that I want to be there for him and could he please call me if he wants to talk about anything, not just us? I feel so cut off.
3. Can I ask him to call me so we can go out and do stuff together or is it too soon? At this point the only time we talk is when he is getting stuff. Help?
4. Can I tell him that I am alone and am going to use this time to get me together to be a better wife for him and a better self?
5. Can I tell him that I will not have an affair because I would never do that to him because I have too much respect for him and our marriage?
6. Can I tell him that I hope that he is really using his apartment as a place to be alone to think as opposed to giving him a place to be with her?
7. I want to tell him that spending so much time with her and none with me is influencing him and that is not fair to him or to me. Can I?
8. Can I tell him that I feel she has manipulated this whole situation and that he fell for the oldest trick in the book?
9. Can I tell him how much he is hurting me yet or ever? He doesn’t get it. Even if he is not listening, can I? How?
10. Can I tell him I lay awake every night thinking of him and all of the good things in our marriage and all I do is cry?

Please help me with these. I do not know when I will talk to him again. Thank you for all of your input and revelations. They are the main thing that is keeping me above water.

All I did last night was cry. I am going today to get antidepressants and some labs. I get sick to my stomach every time I eat and due to other....stuff, I think I have an ulcer. I have lost 18 pounds.

Lost, stay away frm any lecturing or educating and try to attract him back. Don't say anything about the OW. Just be as pleasant as possible [we aren't going to give you a script, though] and don't argue, nag, beg or plead. You don't have to hide your feelings, just be strategic about it and focus on being attractive versus repellent. Attract, attract, attract!

Are you reading the book?

I didn't get a chance last night. I cleaned until late. I am taking it to the Doctor's office today.

I can refrain from talking about the OW. I just feel like I am sitting here with no access while he trys another woman on for size and it is just f.... killing me. She is so very manipulative and he doesn't see it and apparently I cannot point it out.

Which one of the above things can I say? I do not want to be repellant of course.

Lost, everything up there is ok except begging, pleading, educating, lecturing, nagging, or criticisms about the OW. Just follow those guidelines and you will be fine. Yes, the OW is very manipulative, but you can't tell him that without causing him to defend her. And you don't want him in defense mode. If he is defending himself or the OW, then he can't think about the ramifications of what he is doing.

Thank you, I will do my best. Getting the key for the mailbox is going to be hard. I think it will really tick him off that I do not want him to have a mailbox key. Gee sorry.

Thank you so much. Hey, can people other than me tell him that she is and has been a scheming manipulative B?

How can WS believe I was never there for him when now that he is gone I feel so alone? I have too much time just too much. I cannot fill it. I am so empty. Why can't he see my hurt?

Well, that did and didn't go so well. I went to Dr and got Lorazam. Got from the pharmacist and was pacing and crying so she told me to put it under my tongue.

Saw WH 20 minutes later. He was there to pick up stuff.

He asked me what I had filed at the courthouse. I told him I had a speeding ticket I had to pay which was true. He literally breathed a sigh of relief. I apoligized for scaring him. He was, it made me feel good.

I told him how alone I felt and that no matter how busy I kept myself I was so empty and sad. He hugged me.

We packed up his crap. Took 4.5 hours and he tried to fix my printer to no avail.

He said, "I still want to do things for you." He wanted to make my pendant and he would come over on a weekend and finish the bathroom. (I am going to texture and paint and seal the tile though I did not tell him that.)

He said I am not going to leave him high and dry here with this house. I said I was feeling pretty high and dry.

I gave him food, a desk, 2 bookcases, and a blow up mattress bed, towels, blankets, sheets, cleaner, TP, trash bags, ziplocks, tinfoil, a frying pan and a sauce pan and papertowels.

He dumped his top drawer in a box and that is where it started. In his top drawer is a bed strap thing and leather stuff if you know what I mean. And I said so you are taking the straps with you? He said no that he wasn't, he didn't realize they we in there. He said he would leave them. I said why? I am not going to need them. He left them, but took all the leather. I am just going to die. I can't believe this is happening. I almost called and told him to bring them back. I can't take this.

Then he tried to fix my printer. Then he said he had to go drop all of this off and then go to walmart. I said oh, what do you need at walmart? He snapped and said everything! I said I am giving you everything I can. Then he apologized.

Later, I invited him to Christmas and he said he didn't know. I told him that I would appreciate it if he went. Then he started in on that is why I wanted to wit to do this until after the holidays. It is too hard on your parents. Yeah FU.

I hate him. I am so sad. I don't think I can do this. I feel like he is trying out another woman while I sit and wait. I can't stop crying. I jsut want to give up and move on.

Hon, I know this is heartbreaking, but please understand that this is far from over. There is a strong chance that your H will come back and you can build a stronger marriage than you had before. I know that seems unbelievable right now, but if you handle this strategically, there is a strong chance that will happen.

And let me explain why. The OW only meets 1-2 needs of his. You meet 3-4. Not only that, but his feelings towards this woman are not grounded in reality, but in a fantasy. His affair is based on deceit and fraud and the likelihood of it lasting are slim to none.

The affair likely came about when he somehow became detached from you in the marriage. Plan A is designed to correct this problem by attracting him back, to the best of your ability. Meeting his needs and avoiding lovebusters will hopefully attract him back. He is expecting you to blow up and lovebust him. But when you don't, he will be confused and will start taking a second look.

This is what you have to focus on for now. Additionally, if you see any further exposure opportunities, it is vitally important that you take them. I know you think that exposure was not helpful because it made your H mad, but it is supposed to make the WS mad. That means it was effective.

In the meantime, read as much as you can. Read SAA and then read the article about emotional needs and lovebusters. That will be a huge help.


Are you crazy?? Don't you touch that bathroom! This is a PERFECT opportunity to meet his need for admiration. LET HIM do the bathroom and then PRAISE him to the moon! It will make the OW jealous if he is coming over to fix things. Don't you fix anything! If anything is broken, call him and ask him sweetly to come fix it. You need him. Got that, girlfriend? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lost, I am going to respond to some of your items above so you will understand why some are lovebusters so you can be careful in your interactions with him. Coming here was a HUGE eye opener for me because much of my interactions with men were nothing more than lovebusters. And I never knew it! I don't think MOST women - especially we independent types - understand this very well. I didn't!


#6: That would be bossing him around. He is a grown man who can do what he likes in his own apartment. And he didn;t leave to "think;" he left to carry on affair. If he wanted to "think" he would go in the bathroom or the car.

#7: This is a lecture that strives to educate him. When you lecture him, you are sending the implicit message that he is stupid. This makes him defensive.

#8: this is a disrespectful judgement that implies that he is stupid and easily manipulated. It also forces him to defend the OW. And you don't want him defending HER.

Thanks Melody.

I just am having such a rough time. I was so upset when I realized and I started drinking. Not a good idea. I just have to stop that. Alcohol induced insomnia is not fun. Not to mention that I am not supposed to drink with the lorazapam, or my ambien.

My mom came over and she is so upset that she thinks she needs to be here whenever he comes over now. Fact is it doesn't matter. That would only make things more tense. We actually laughed about things yesterday.

I truly do not know how long I can hold out. I got up at 230am and drove to her house to make sure she was not at least at that time christening the new apartment. ***What do I do if I go over albeit uninvited to his apartment and she is there? Drive away? I am sure knocking on the door would be a big love buster, but at least he would know that I know.

***Should I have pictures of me taken? I haven't done that since losing my weight. I could frame one and hang it in his new apartment. That would really chap her A**. What do you think? Maybe some wedding pictures? Unfortunately, we do not have a lot of pictures together nor do we have pictures of me because he never takes them.

I am just up and down constantly. I feel like I am in this competition with this OW. The problem is do I just want to win for the sake of winning? Do I really want him back? All the mistrust? All the everything that has come to light? I just do not know if it is worth it.

The fact is we belong to a club and she is in it too. She will continue to float in and out. She will never completely be out of sight. The camping events require a little freedom and are all about socializing and hard work. I can't duct tape him to me. He would never stand for that.

The club is such an important creative outlet for both of us. We are very involved. I do not believe he will let it go. She is not as involved. Doesn't do anything except go and party. REally doesn't give a crap. I think that is funny. He brought that up as something they enjoy talking about, but she does nothing and we do everything.

Part of me just wants to file. He still hasn't gone to counselling, but I know he hasn't had a lot of time. He says she is on vacation. I think I may check that. He says everything is on my time table, which really isn't true. Some things are absolutely, ****** I go to school full time and work full time. My professional satisfaction is important to me. I am sorry if that is selfish.

If I were to file, that gives him about 6 months, but I know that is not enough time for him to move back in. I know I could halt it. I think he would just give up if I did. I just do not know. I just don't know that this is fixable. There are so many things. We both have so many needs that haven't been met for so long. He is not attracted to me sexually. He has not been for 10 years. It is so odd. It is not normal. I am the sex driven one and he is not. *** How do I combat that? It has killed me for years. Then the conversation, recreation(some, not enough), affection(some not enough), admiration, now honesty? Nothing is being met!

BTW, what do I do if he finds this site and gets on? He saw the address today when he was looking for msn when he was fixing my printer. He put in www.m and there it was.....marriagebuilders in my navagation box.

I was beside myself. I do not know where else to go. He will know everything I am thinking.

How is that a lovebuster? A lovebuster is:

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty

Which one do you think it is? The link for this article is here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html

Although I don't think its a good idea for you to drive over there in the middle of the night.

If she belongs to a club of yours, I would make sure to expose her at the club. Let the members know she is having an affair with your H.

I wouldn't think about D right now if I were you. Give it some time, Lost. Your feelings are wrecked right now. Divorce is permanent, an affair is not. Just hang in there and read as much as you can.

Well, the middle of the night would prove my point once again.

You are saying knocking on the door is okay??

What if he finds this site and me? What do I do?